logic has little to do with hate. one of those things that just seems worth fighting for. personally i have no idea why we hate, but it always seems like something worth hating by those people.
I don't 'get' Racism...
- Thread starter Sizzle Montyjing
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Racism will never end, or if it does (somehow) it will be replaced by a completely new thing. The only real way any prejudice will end is when everyone stops paying so much fu**ing attention to it! The only reason we pay attention to racism is because the media and politicians like to use controversial subjects for their causes. But seriously even if everyone stopped paying attention to it, there would always be that one f***ing dumba** c*** that is just racist to be a prick.
That's life, that's the way life will always be, deal with it.
That's life, that's the way life will always be, deal with it.
::Sigh:: I hate it when I show up late to these topics. ::Rolls up sleeves:: Here goes.
Racism, like any other kind of ism, is not about hate. It's about laziness.
See, it goes like this: people's lives are complicated. Deciding whether or not to have coffee with breakfast in the morning is easy: do you feel awake enough? If not, have some caffeine. No, I'm talking about the difficult stuff: do I invest this $3,000 windfall I've got right now, or do I use to fix the problem I've been saving up to fix for the last four weeks?
What does this have to do with 'race?' Well, it has more to do with your brain. People like to make their decision making easier by lumping things into groups. "These are anise-flavored jellybeans, I don't like them, ergo I will not buy this bag of jellybeans." We make hundreds of sorting decisions like that a week, sometimes a day if you've got a lot of decisions to make. Facing down that many decisions is daunting, because you want to get things 'right,' but that's a lot of data to process. So you sort things.
The problem is that this process is used with everything we have to do. We always look for patterns and sort by them. We even sort people this way.
About 65% of the time it's harmless. You can make assumptions like 'He's from Georgia; he's eaten peach pie before.' The remaining 35% of the time is where we get into trouble. It's also super easy to do so, because our principle sense we use for sorting things is sight. The 'races' as they are traditionally defined, are based on physical characteristics that can be observed, which is a horrible distortion of the truth. People even from very visually different 'races' are typically quite similar genetically, since all the things that make humans come in different sizes and colors occupies about .000000001% of our total DNA. The rest is basic life-functioning (how to form cell walls, how to process proteins, that kind of thing).
But it's hard to treat people like individual snowflakes. It's much easier to treat them as groups of people. Helps in the sorting and the pattern recognition. The problem is that 35% can give you a very skewed lazy view of the world, which will disadvantage you and those around you quite a bit. Most cultures on this planet are fine with you digging your own grave, it's when you drag other people in that it's a problem.
Worse yet, this problem compounds itself. If you segregate a 'race,' then they will tend towards the same culture, because you're forcing them too. People with extremely racist perspectives take this as prima facie evidence that they're right. Look up self-fulfilling prophecy. That sort of thing.
Even more worse yet, because this is natural human behavior and it exists only in the human mind, it's incredibly hard to police it, and sometimes even to identify it.
Racism isn't about hate. It's about using hate because you don't have a different option, because you haven't trained yourself out of not just lumping a group of people together in a simple group, like 'money-loving Jews' or 'violent Italians.'
Racism, like any other kind of ism, is not about hate. It's about laziness.
See, it goes like this: people's lives are complicated. Deciding whether or not to have coffee with breakfast in the morning is easy: do you feel awake enough? If not, have some caffeine. No, I'm talking about the difficult stuff: do I invest this $3,000 windfall I've got right now, or do I use to fix the problem I've been saving up to fix for the last four weeks?
What does this have to do with 'race?' Well, it has more to do with your brain. People like to make their decision making easier by lumping things into groups. "These are anise-flavored jellybeans, I don't like them, ergo I will not buy this bag of jellybeans." We make hundreds of sorting decisions like that a week, sometimes a day if you've got a lot of decisions to make. Facing down that many decisions is daunting, because you want to get things 'right,' but that's a lot of data to process. So you sort things.
The problem is that this process is used with everything we have to do. We always look for patterns and sort by them. We even sort people this way.
About 65% of the time it's harmless. You can make assumptions like 'He's from Georgia; he's eaten peach pie before.' The remaining 35% of the time is where we get into trouble. It's also super easy to do so, because our principle sense we use for sorting things is sight. The 'races' as they are traditionally defined, are based on physical characteristics that can be observed, which is a horrible distortion of the truth. People even from very visually different 'races' are typically quite similar genetically, since all the things that make humans come in different sizes and colors occupies about .000000001% of our total DNA. The rest is basic life-functioning (how to form cell walls, how to process proteins, that kind of thing).
But it's hard to treat people like individual snowflakes. It's much easier to treat them as groups of people. Helps in the sorting and the pattern recognition. The problem is that 35% can give you a very skewed lazy view of the world, which will disadvantage you and those around you quite a bit. Most cultures on this planet are fine with you digging your own grave, it's when you drag other people in that it's a problem.
Worse yet, this problem compounds itself. If you segregate a 'race,' then they will tend towards the same culture, because you're forcing them too. People with extremely racist perspectives take this as prima facie evidence that they're right. Look up self-fulfilling prophecy. That sort of thing.
Even more worse yet, because this is natural human behavior and it exists only in the human mind, it's incredibly hard to police it, and sometimes even to identify it.
Racism isn't about hate. It's about using hate because you don't have a different option, because you haven't trained yourself out of not just lumping a group of people together in a simple group, like 'money-loving Jews' or 'violent Italians.'
Ask Howard Bloom. Or read his Lucifer Principal.Sizzle Montyjing said:
Most racists are raised to be such; some have only a few encounters with certain races at an early age, few to none of which are positive.
Ignorance, denial and projection/misdirection are probably the three biggest contributors.
I do not like the idea or condone it, but hate is a sociological fact. But we can change that,i just don't know exactly how. I apologize if this appeared to make me seem prejudice, But honestly i believe hate, like respect is earned. Also one thing i feel is making things worse is turning race into a taboo subject, the majority of each race conforms to some stereotypes, this seems to cause anger and mistrust. But that is because it is looked at as such for no reason, seems like a solution even though it may be far more effective to late stereotype humor and facts about certain groups of people whether racial or not should be discussed openly among friends.
Thanks.
Thanks.
The thing is that prejudice is not a conscious thing. You say that you aren't prejudiced but then you see someone who's different in a certain way and little signals go off in your head.
Most people can ignore these to the point where it doesn't really affect them in their reactions or their conscious thought, but people raised in racist households or areas would be conditioned to think like that all the time.
Its mainly a built in holdover from times when their were other humanoid species still around that would probably kill you if you weren't wary of their 'otherness.'
Most people can ignore these to the point where it doesn't really affect them in their reactions or their conscious thought, but people raised in racist households or areas would be conditioned to think like that all the time.
Its mainly a built in holdover from times when their were other humanoid species still around that would probably kill you if you weren't wary of their 'otherness.'
It's a baser, older part of the brain at work. People are essentially afraid of the unknown, afraid of others and like to band together with people they considder the same to ease these fears. And discrimination itself is not racist; the term purely means "to notice differences". The problem is in fact the conclusions some people attribute to the differences they notice; being bad or good just based on an arbitrary issue.
You should really watch the South Park episode where they change the city flag, it makes some good points how every adult involved is a racist. Some just not realizing it themselves...
I think "positive discrimination" is the very worst; we need a WOMAN for this job, or a person NOT NATIVE. It's disgustingly smug, because the person hired gets a 'free ride' based on a racist view that women or other groups can't make it on their own. Imagine how you would feel getting that position. You will never know wheter or not you earned it because you where the best of ALL applicants. I was raised to not take handouts, be proud and work hard!
You should really watch the South Park episode where they change the city flag, it makes some good points how every adult involved is a racist. Some just not realizing it themselves...
I think "positive discrimination" is the very worst; we need a WOMAN for this job, or a person NOT NATIVE. It's disgustingly smug, because the person hired gets a 'free ride' based on a racist view that women or other groups can't make it on their own. Imagine how you would feel getting that position. You will never know wheter or not you earned it because you where the best of ALL applicants. I was raised to not take handouts, be proud and work hard!
Its neither, its just stereotyping because while a lot of them are good at RTS not all of them are but its not derogatory or offensive so its not racism.Calibretto said:
Deep down, differences in looks make people uneasy, but thru intelligence we can beat down this primal and outdated urge.
Part of the problem is that we have people in places of power who are racist, and are allowed to push that agenda onto millions of people, Take FOX News, who've taken 'I love America' to the twisted point of 'I hate everything that isn't America' and the printed press such as the Mail in the UK, who blame everything cancer to house price to England's failure in world sport on immigrants. Not the nice white english speaking immigrants of course, they're fine, the dusky ones, and the ones who speak funny, and certainly those who dress funny.
In the end, most of it is down to education, and I HOPE that over time, those who flatly don't want to hear that a black lesbian woman is essentially as valid a human being as a white, straight man will die out and be replaced by people with brains capable of evolving, which is usually something else they refuse to acknowledge
The sheer hilarity for example of the anti Obama stuff going on in America, I feel in the UK he'd be getting torn apart on his military stance, his economic policies and a ton of other stuff. It seems the only thing of importance for most anti Obama types is exactly where he fell out of his mother. Of course, we're obsessed with class still, so we sure aint perfect.
Part of the problem is that we have people in places of power who are racist, and are allowed to push that agenda onto millions of people, Take FOX News, who've taken 'I love America' to the twisted point of 'I hate everything that isn't America' and the printed press such as the Mail in the UK, who blame everything cancer to house price to England's failure in world sport on immigrants. Not the nice white english speaking immigrants of course, they're fine, the dusky ones, and the ones who speak funny, and certainly those who dress funny.
In the end, most of it is down to education, and I HOPE that over time, those who flatly don't want to hear that a black lesbian woman is essentially as valid a human being as a white, straight man will die out and be replaced by people with brains capable of evolving, which is usually something else they refuse to acknowledge
The sheer hilarity for example of the anti Obama stuff going on in America, I feel in the UK he'd be getting torn apart on his military stance, his economic policies and a ton of other stuff. It seems the only thing of importance for most anti Obama types is exactly where he fell out of his mother. Of course, we're obsessed with class still, so we sure aint perfect.
This seems like as good a time as any to throw out a long winded anecdote.
Years ago when I was fresh out of college and looking to get a job with Manitoba Hydro, our provincial electric company. I went through a tedious maze of paperwork and somewhere along the way someone messed up, could have been me could have been them we will never know, and my application got put in the "Indian Affairs" pile. I get a call saying im head and shoulders above the other candidates they want to meet with me as soon as possible to discuss employment and pay. I drove out to the meeting and the first thing said to me is "Oh, you're not native." Now the man doing the interview REALLY HATED the Aborigional population of Canada, called them the scum of the earth, and the reason he did was that day in, day out, he was stuck interviewing sub standard employees because they had the apropriate melanin levels to fill a quota. This guy was stuck comparing his friends collegues and the best of the new graduates to Aborigional (native american / american indian) band members who were there because it pretty much guaronteed a paycheque. This reinforced the stereotype that aborigional people are simply lazy and useless compared to white people and flaunted it in his face by forcing him to work with them.
The reason for racism, and probably all ISMS like this, its that we really con only see the world from our own narrow viewpoint and while I did move out as early as I could, live in some bad neighborhoods, and once got shot in the back for bein the wrong skincolour, I will never understand racism or really anything from say a black man, Native American or east Indian perspective and when I see them given privelages, or special protection I dont have, or even just want to feel better about myself I can say hey at least im not a dumb **** or those darned ****'s got it so easy and I can feel all superior about myself again.
I personally believe that most modern Isms are being perpitrated most by the people who speak out against them, theres a lot of money to be made in fighting race and sexism.
Years ago when I was fresh out of college and looking to get a job with Manitoba Hydro, our provincial electric company. I went through a tedious maze of paperwork and somewhere along the way someone messed up, could have been me could have been them we will never know, and my application got put in the "Indian Affairs" pile. I get a call saying im head and shoulders above the other candidates they want to meet with me as soon as possible to discuss employment and pay. I drove out to the meeting and the first thing said to me is "Oh, you're not native." Now the man doing the interview REALLY HATED the Aborigional population of Canada, called them the scum of the earth, and the reason he did was that day in, day out, he was stuck interviewing sub standard employees because they had the apropriate melanin levels to fill a quota. This guy was stuck comparing his friends collegues and the best of the new graduates to Aborigional (native american / american indian) band members who were there because it pretty much guaronteed a paycheque. This reinforced the stereotype that aborigional people are simply lazy and useless compared to white people and flaunted it in his face by forcing him to work with them.
The reason for racism, and probably all ISMS like this, its that we really con only see the world from our own narrow viewpoint and while I did move out as early as I could, live in some bad neighborhoods, and once got shot in the back for bein the wrong skincolour, I will never understand racism or really anything from say a black man, Native American or east Indian perspective and when I see them given privelages, or special protection I dont have, or even just want to feel better about myself I can say hey at least im not a dumb **** or those darned ****'s got it so easy and I can feel all superior about myself again.
I personally believe that most modern Isms are being perpitrated most by the people who speak out against them, theres a lot of money to be made in fighting race and sexism.
Their are just raised that way. I was raised in the south and saw racism, like I said it's the way they we're raised. They just think some races are genetically superior to others. Mostly it's based of stereotypes. Most of them are probably just insecure about their own race. Yep, growing up in Mississippi teaches you a lot about life.
I have been accused of being a racist. Probably due to the fact that i say the word "******" alot. Then people call me a raceist and i explain that i dont hate black people, just "niggers". Niggers being the black kids from the inner cities who drop out of school and join gangs and add nothing to society. I then also explain that race does not matter in this because there are also "wiggers" (white niggers) "chiggers" (chinese niggers, but asian in general) "miggers" (mexican niggers) etc. After that they agree and stop caring. I even use "racist slurs" to affectionatly refer to my friends.
Also the show Boondocks totaly backs up this philosophy, you should watch it, its funny as hell
Also the show Boondocks totaly backs up this philosophy, you should watch it, its funny as hell
Any old excuse to exploit someone or to refuse them something. I guess most people, at the time it originated, thought it a pretty good reason to fight for resources you may or may not need.
"we should go to war with those people."
"why?"
"They're different."
And that's basically it. The person in that scenario who wants to go to war would be the other's superior, normally. Of course, it may be easier to kill to increase the numbers of your religion if they refuse to convert! So that works, too for the religious warmongers.
"we should go to war with those people."
"why?"
"They're different."
And that's basically it. The person in that scenario who wants to go to war would be the other's superior, normally. Of course, it may be easier to kill to increase the numbers of your religion if they refuse to convert! So that works, too for the religious warmongers.
Whats there to get it people tend to be scared of two things. Change and people who are different than them. Often times there is more to protecting some silly, misguided, or stupid status quo than actually hating someone.
Generally it's because a lot of people are fucking idiots. The best idea of why it's so prevalent was when Europe dehumanized all of the native Africans so they would feel better about their subjugation. I suppose it's idiots raising their children to be idiots that has perpetuated this belief for so long.
It could also have to do with humanity's annoying need to feel better than everyone else.
It could also have to do with humanity's annoying need to feel better than everyone else.
From what I understand it is mostly down to a lack of education. I'm not talking about learning to read and write but due to the fact people don't understand other cultures they either fear them or think them less important than themselves. This causes people to be racist towards other cultures.
Racism has to be taught.
I look at my 3 year-old daughter, and she plays equally well with kids of all races -- at her age, race doesn't even register as anything more that "my friend looks different than me."
It's only as children grow up and are taught that you shouldn't associate with "those people" that racism begins. Instead of embracing the "otherness," we're taught (either by individuals, or more subtly by society -- take a look at movies and television) to fear the "other." Once you begin to perceive anyone as something other than a person, as part of an anonymous group, it's easy to dehumanize them.
It seem like the majority of the posters see individuals as individuals, and judge them as such. To me, that is truly wonderful and amazing (since it's how I want my daughter to grow up)!
I look at my 3 year-old daughter, and she plays equally well with kids of all races -- at her age, race doesn't even register as anything more that "my friend looks different than me."
It's only as children grow up and are taught that you shouldn't associate with "those people" that racism begins. Instead of embracing the "otherness," we're taught (either by individuals, or more subtly by society -- take a look at movies and television) to fear the "other." Once you begin to perceive anyone as something other than a person, as part of an anonymous group, it's easy to dehumanize them.
It seem like the majority of the posters see individuals as individuals, and judge them as such. To me, that is truly wonderful and amazing (since it's how I want my daughter to grow up)!
Truthfully its not all learned. Some is not all, For example my experiences for instance.(I don't hate black people read the whole thing its why stereotypes exist and why alot of people are racist) Growing up, went to a mostly black church, fine people there were family nothing wrong with them. Alot of them were black. Went to school k-8, fine what black people were there fine nothing wrong with them hell thought one of the black kids that I met was pretty cool even after what I heard about him. Still no reason to dislike black people because they are black. Went to H.S....and thats where I learned stereotypes are true as can be. Give a reason for racism....put someone in the surrounding of the typical(stereotype). Who sold drugs who was doing what and more importantly, who COMPLETELY disrespected the school officials and police and purposely caused problems just to cause the problems for those people. Granted not all were like that, my best friend is pretty damn black and the only stereotype he fits is...his skin color, he runs fast...and he has a giant Afro (Yes I am friends with that 1 kid who has the giant ass Afro)Worgen said:
Why does racism exist, say the church I went to was all white, or no church at all, say the middle school I went to I never met that black kid and thought he was alright and then I hit H.S/Dealt with a different group of people on normal basis, and didn't meet..Fro magnum. The ONLY experience I would of had with black people would be....H.S. Now H.Schoolers suck as it is. Between stereotypes I already know of, What I see on T.V (lets face it, its not pretty) and the people I like to refer to as...a waist of sperm, (not all just a whole lot of them...I.E a majority). Why do you think people are racist? and
TLDR: People are racist because unfortunately....stereotypes are sometimes true...ALOT of the time. Like Chris Rock (and a teacher of mine after he asked if it was ok to say the N word) "There is a difference between Black people and Niggers, You will invite a black person over your house, Even black people though don't invite niggers over"-Chris Rock...i think.
Yes I know that is a bad word mod's please understand the usage of the word for ignorant ass person who is...well shit, They can be any color its just unfortunate it relates to all black people.
Side note: anyone who looks into the college system of who they accept and why becomes a bit racist...It took 4 pages of scholarship opportunities to find 1 I was applicable for, we did the math I could of had somewhere in the ballpark of 20k if I was black....
Sorry that was so long I've had to deal with it quite a bit...and yes it does work both ways, more than once I heard something due to the fact I was white.
EDIT:
OH MAN you have no idea....My dad thanks our "Uncle Al" for our house, Al Sharpton baby, Dad was a cop, Uncle Al needed protection: IE its a rule if you have a gathering like he does you need to pay for the police to keep the piece. We love "Uncle Al" in our house.BRex21 said:
Probably the same reason for patriotism. Patriotism is completely useless and pointless.
People just like to think they are superior to other people. Human nature then.
People just like to think they are superior to other people. Human nature then.