I don't think Heroes of the Storm is a good enough game to support an eSports community.

[snekadid]

The primary gold source in HotS is dailies, so measuring gold per game is non-optimal.

You can reasonably assume between 300 and 350 gold per day, meaning you can get a 10k hero about once a month.

But the dailies take more work than in League of Legends. In LoL, if you win a single game with any champion, even against easy bots, you get your daily IP bonus. HotS expects you to win multiple games per day, and they don't count if you use the wrong hero.

Play. You just have to play the games - winning is not required. Also, you can play the over several days, it's not necessary to be one.

I'm not saying I like the system, but it's milder than the one in Hearthstone (where you do have to win games).

It's still rather annoying, in that you most probably have to play every day or so in order to complete them. You can't, for example, play 20 games on a Saturday and get as much gold as playing the same throughout the whole week. And I don't intend to play that much every day - I barely did 3 games today and the quest I got when I logged on was to play 8 (with any hero) so I'd estimate finishing that in 3 days. The other quest I have is to play with a support hero but...guess what - I CAN'T! I need level 12 account to get one of the one that's currently on rotation. And I'm level 7. I'm stuck with this quest for a now. Well, I suppose I could use that "Try this hero" thing but I seriously don't think this is how things are supposed to go.

Other than the ridiculous cash shop prices, the restriction on free slot characters is my major complaint with the game. My friend, that I gave the bonus code I got for some giveaway from this site, really wanted to play azmodan so that he could see if he wanted to play him, but azmodan was locked out of the standard free slots. It's frustrating for newer players who don't want to wait a month for the next time that character is offered and it means that the low level players have fewer options to pick from when queueing for matches, meaning the line up in match making is constantly smiliar.

One thing I disagree with that a lot of people complain about is the locking of talents. If anything I think you should be required to get a Hero to level 4(it takes about 3 games to do) to be able to queue for Versus mode. By then you've played through the characters skills and should be familiar with their talents, something you should be doing fighting computers when the match is more forgiving, not jumping into PVP with a character you know nothing about with a team of randoms. Besides, Unlike in LOL and DOTA2, the bots actually seem more competent, rarely committing suicide and actually adjusting to changes in lane dynamics. It's not award worthy or anything but its not super boring when you're just trying to figure a hero out.

 

[theNater]

And I don't intend to play that much every day - I barely did 3 games today and the quest I got when I logged on was to play 8 (with any hero) so I'd estimate finishing that in 3 days. The other quest I have is to play with a support hero but...guess what - I CAN'T! I need level 12 account to get one of the one that's currently on rotation. And I'm level 7. I'm stuck with this quest for a now. Well, I suppose I could use that "Try this hero" thing but I seriously don't think this is how things are supposed to go.

Three games a day is easily enough to keep your log from overflowing, as long as you can use the right categories of hero. I'm set up for about 6 games on Wednesday, 6 on Saturday, and 3 on Sunday, with the occasional game on other days to clear up any leftovers(like finishing up an 8 games quest). By overlapping where I can(playing a warcraft specialist gives you progress towards your warcraft and specialist quests), I only rarely need to get those other days.

It is weird that you don't have access to a support character. Both Malfurion and Uther are in the (full) rotation; are you sure you can't use either of them?

As a backup, at level 8 you get 2,000 gold, which is enough to buy Malfurion or Lili. So if you're really antsy to get that support quest done, there's your out.

I've seen this a lot with specialists-they're rare enough that often there's only one in the rotation, so it being in one of the locked slots happens with alarming frequency. It's definitely a problem, and most of the folks I know have dealt with it by buying one tolerable cheap hero of each flavor just to always have somebody they're happy to do quests with.

Point conceded. It looks like there's only one quest that actually requires that you win the game.

For completeness sake, I want to note that quest can be done against bots.

My friend, that I gave the bonus code I got for some giveaway from this site, really wanted to play azmodan so that he could see if he wanted to play him, but azmodan was locked out of the standard free slots.

Does your friend know about try mode? It's not exactly play, but it can give you a decent feel for what a character is about.

 

[snekadid]

My friend, that I gave the bonus code I got for some giveaway from this site, really wanted to play azmodan so that he could see if he wanted to play him, but azmodan was locked out of the standard free slots.

Does your friend know about try mode? It's not exactly play, but it can give you a decent feel for what a character is about.

He does but the try mode is garbage for getting any feel for a hero. At most it lets you see how the skill works but gives it no context as its a tiny lane against a bot that still has only the most basic of AI, constantly committing suicide and not reacting to you or the malfurion they give you to watch your ass.

 

[zumbledum]

So I happened to see something interesting on the dashboard of my Battle.net client. Apparently, Heroes of the Storm managed to get an tournament going on ESPN3. This was rather surprising to me, because I was rather disappointed with my time in the HotS beta. The game placed such a heavy emphasis on teamwork, I never felt like I could carry a game by myself, like I could in League of Legends or DotA. You lived or died on your teammates, and it is even more true here than it is in any other MOBA.

And while that may make for a good competitive MOBA, it doesn't do very well when you try to play solo, and I can see the game's community migrating elsewhere once the novelty has worn off.

Thoughts? Opinions?

well and this may not be true of you but for everyone that screams ADC or troll, and actually gets to play the character that has a chance of carrying the game , you have 2-3 others like me that get relegated to being the ***** support or some other pointless thankless task so you special snowflakes do get to "carry the game by yourself" so as much as dota and lol may revolve around you in your own head your actually the small minority.

Quite a lot of us non socially challenged folks actually enjoy teamplay, and typically if you look at sports for example most of the really successful and popular ones are team oriented, football, basketball, american football,

as for the ability to que solo and get a good game , well from my perspective the odds are vastly higher because im actually going to get to play a meaningful and equal role. and its quite a lot more complicated and fun for a lot of us to have to work together.

will it be a popular esport? doubt it that really depends on the size of the player base and with the time and money the LOL community have sunk into there accounts i dont see a huge migration away likely.
but if we were more objective and open i suspect it is a lot more fun to watch.

frankly i dont care Hots is the moba for me i play a few games each week and that it. it fills a niche in the market , dont really see it as competition to lol or dota it appeals to different people.

 

[DoPo]

One thing I disagree with that a lot of people complain about is the locking of talents. If anything I think you should be required to get a Hero to level 4(it takes about 3 games to do) to be able to queue for Versus mode. By then you've played through the characters skills and should be familiar with their talents, something you should be doing fighting computers when the match is more forgiving, not jumping into PVP with a character you know nothing about with a team of randoms. Besides, Unlike in LOL and DOTA2, the bots actually seem more competent, rarely committing suicide and actually adjusting to changes in lane dynamics. It's not award worthy or anything but its not super boring when you're just trying to figure a hero out.

When I played the training mission the bots were not doing anything noteworthy. Well, I guess their lack of competence would count as noteworthy. They did not even move away from being attacked - I racked up kills like candy. First time I played with a friend (which was the second time I played in total) I launched a training game by mistake - I chose "Ready" without changing the game mode. For fun, instead of quitting we decided to see just how long it would take to win the game with two humans there. Well, that, and we weren't sure if you could abandon the game. At any rate, this was also his second game - it took us about 8 minutes or so to win. None of us even came close to dying.

I've not tried cooperative mode - do bots get to be any sort of challange there?

On a completely separate note (slightly related to the "not dying above") - the announcer comments to the effect of "Your health is low, hero, do you have any potions or food wells you can drink of?" the game spouts when your health gets below, about 40% are just so annoying. And so useless - I can monitor my health just fine, thanks, and I don't even need to go back when I (or my lane buddy) can, like, heal and stuff.

It is weird that you don't have access to a support character. Both Malfurion and Uther are in the (full) rotation; are you sure you can't use either of them?

My bad, I meant specialist, not support - I can't play Sgt. Hammer until level 12.

Three games a day is easily enough to keep your log from overflowing, as long as you can use the right categories of hero. I'm set up for about 6 games on Wednesday, 6 on Saturday, and 3 on Sunday, with the occasional game on other days to clear up any leftovers(like finishing up an 8 games quest).

Does your friend know about try mode? It's not exactly play, but it can give you a decent feel for what a character is about.[/quote]

It still means you aren't free to choose the heroes - playing is more of a chore than interesting when you are mandated to play with a certain hero(es).

EDIT: OK, you're not really "mandated" as such, but it does mean you don't advance in quests and hence you aren't getting gold. It is in my interest to get gold, so I can get heroes, so I can actually play something I like. But even if I do, I might need to prefer a different hero for quest reasons... I don't like the system, as I said.

 

[The Madman]

On a semi-related note just decided to play a bit of Hots tonight and had a genuinely fantastic match that had me pumping my fist in the air when it was over and laughing like an idiot. I'm still amazed that my team managed to turn it around, I figured for certain we were done for but a last minute rally when the enemy was on our doorstep turned the whole thing around leading to a desperate push on their base and an exhilarating victory.

Give me matches like those to watch and yeah, I'll watch em. It doesn't happen every match, maybe one out of every half-dozen or so, but every now and then Hots just delivers an intense enough experience to get me all pumped up and excited. Televise that and I'm sure it would find an audience.

Also; Damn is Sgt.Hammer fun to play. That boom boom BOOM of her gun is so damned satisfying, especially when you're laying down the hurt straight onto the enemy team.

 

[snekadid]

I've not tried cooperative mode - do bots get to be any sort of challange there?

Yea, Cooperative mode has bots with actual AI, unlike the training stage. It's nothing to write home about but bots wont overstretch past their creeps unless they are certain they can kill you and they use team dynamics pretty well. It's actually easy to lose a match against them if you get 1 or 2 dead weight players in the queue. The only time where it becomes really obvious that the bots aren't super well programmed is that if a cloaked character sits on an objective, the bots will mill around on the objective unable to claim it and wont try and lash out and hit the cloaked player.

 

[Cryselle]

I completely disagree with the people saying that one person can't have a significant impact on the game. One person cannot CARRY a game alone, you'll never walk into the enemy base, go one on 5 in front of their core, kill them all and win the game all while your team is sitting in your base sipping drinks. But once you're at level 20+, winning a single team fight decisively can give you enough time to turn things around and win even if you have been behind most of the match. And a single perfect Devouring Maw from Zagara can easily mean the difference between a solid win and a crushing defeat in a team fight at that point. Yes, you still need your team to capitalize on your excellent play to secure the victory, but there is plenty of room for the match to be decided by whether or not one player lands a critical skillshot.

 

[DoPo]

And a single perfect Devouring Maw from Zagara can easily mean the difference between a solid win and a crushing defeat in a team fight at that point. Yes, you still need your team to capitalize on your excellent play to secure the victory, but there is plenty of room for the match to be decided by whether or not one player lands a critical skillshot.

And that still requires team effort. What if the rest of the team just don't attack the one disabled person for some reason? Skillshots don't do anything by their own.

It's the same thing with any team game, I don't see why you think HotS would be different - the team should be working together and every person from the team should perform adequately - be it in CS where tactics are well and good but a well placed headshot can still turn the round, or in Dota where the appropriate use of ability can also win the team fight.

 

[elvor0]

The game placed such a heavy emphasis on teamwork, I never felt like I could carry a game by myself, like I could in League of Legends or DotA. You lived or died on your teammates, and it is even more true here than it is in any other MOBA.

And while that may make for a good competitive MOBA, it doesn't do very well when you try to play solo, and I can see the game's community migrating elsewhere once the novelty has worn off.

Thoughts? Opinions?

It's a team based genre, why on earth shouldn't there be an emphesis on team work? If you can carry a team by yourself, the people you're playing against are terrible, in LoL, a good, coordinated team that places emphesis on TEAM play is going to roflstomp the shit out of 5 good players that are all just out for themselves.

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

It's a team based genre, why on earth shouldn't there be an emphesis on team work? If you can carry a team by yourself, the people you're playing against are terrible, in LoL, a good, coordinated team that places emphesis on TEAM play is going to roflstomp the shit out of 5 good players that are all just out for themselves.

This is true, but exceptional players should still be given the opportunity to shine. I believe that HotS places such a huge emphasis on teamwork, individual play is devalued to the point where I don't feel like I'm making a particularly big impact.

HotS will probably be best played at the competitive level, but the fanbase are mostly playing by themselves. With the way the game is designed, I don't see the game attracting the fanbase necessary to support higher-level play. Blizzard will have to sink greater and greater amounts of money into it just to keep the eSports community afloat.

 

[elvor0]

It's a team based genre, why on earth shouldn't there be an emphesis on team work? If you can carry a team by yourself, the people you're playing against are terrible, in LoL, a good, coordinated team that places emphesis on TEAM play is going to roflstomp the shit out of 5 good players that are all just out for themselves.

This is true, but exceptional players should still be given the opportunity to shine. I believe that HotS places such a huge emphasis on teamwork, individual play is devalued to the point where I don't feel like I'm making a particularly big impact.

HotS will probably be best played at the competitive level, but the fanbase are mostly playing by themselves. With the way the game is designed, I don't see the game attracting the fanbase necessary to support higher-level play. Blizzard will have to sink greater and greater amounts of money into it just to keep the eSports community afloat.

I think it might just require a different mind set to the rest of the MOBAs out there, you can carry a team, but in a different way. Playing ETC feels very rewarding to me, as it's an excellent hero to control the enemy team, push them into bottlenecks and so forth, now while it's not carrying in the tradtional set, I know that playing that hero well allows the team to do things that it otherwise might not be able to. And it's not like a fed Nova/Raynor still can't do gnarly assassinations and almost carry a team like a hero in LoL could. If it was just another MOBA, it'd fail. Blizzard are no strangers to seeing MMOs die very quickly because they try to imitate WoW, and it would be foolish of them to do the same thing in reverse with the MOBA genre.

 

[Sarge034]

You lose the match, ta da, the end, onto the next one. It's a quick turn around instead of the slow tilting of the scales in something like LoL until the point of no return (or comeback, I should say).

My group and I have won unwinnable matches (15k+ down) and lost games that were in the bag. Just can't give up like you seem to endorse.

As for the OP. I don't think it'll take hold, at least not in the game's current state. The champs need some serious balancing or there will be identical teams and most talents.

 

[vashthblackseed]

@ theNater I've been the beta for just over 2 weeks now and spent 21,000 pickung up Tyrael, Sgt. Hammer & Zagara. No real money was spent, just a lot of parting with friends. Unless you really dislike a particular hero(for me that is Gazlowe), it's worth getting them to level 5 both for the gold perk as well as knowing what to expect when working with/against each hero. Right now this is manageable vs LoL or Dota due to a significantly smaller roster.

Edit: I'm currently sitting on another 10k gold until I find another hero I want to buy.

 

[Godhead]

To be fair, ESPN used to carry Magic: The Gathering Pro Tours and the most recent DOTA 2 International. I'm not really surprised that they were able to get themselves on ESPN3, especially because it's online only.

 

[Rayce Archer]

I can't speak to HOTS as a true competition because I can never score a quick match and I haven't ranked up enough for any of the other PVP modes. :/

I'm not sure it's smart for a game to make players grind against bots, who almost certainly won't be like human players, for hours before letting them loose ON other human players. Just gonna be a lot of butthurt for lots of folks, I think.

 

[DoPo]

I'm not sure it's smart for a game to make players grind against bots, who almost certainly won't be like human players, for hours before letting them loose ON other human players.

That restriction is gone now. I was able to start a quick match immediately after finishing the training game in the beginning.

 

[Rayce Archer]

I'm not sure it's smart for a game to make players grind against bots, who almost certainly won't be like human players, for hours before letting them loose ON other human players.

That restriction is gone now. I was able to start a quick match immediately after finishing the training game in the beginning.

Right, but every time I try it just sits and spins. At least among parties I'm being matched to, everyone seems to be playing coop or one of the matched modes. I'm sure that will improve when the game opens up, though. It wouldn't be a problem except I'm sure I'm learning bad habits that a human will be able to exploit.

 

[DoPo]

I'm not sure it's smart for a game to make players grind against bots, who almost certainly won't be like human players, for hours before letting them loose ON other human players.

That restriction is gone now. I was able to start a quick match immediately after finishing the training game in the beginning.

Right, but every time I try it just sits and spins. At least among parties I'm being matched to, everyone seems to be playing coop or one of the matched modes. I'm sure that will improve when the game opens up, though. It wouldn't be a problem except I'm sure I'm learning bad habits that a human will be able to exploit.

Dunno - I find Quick Matches rather...quickly. It can still take a minute or two but it's generally less than what I'd wait for in Dota 2.

Matches against bots seem to start faster, though. Probably because there is only 5 people there.