I hate how the word 'pretentious' is used.

[Matthew Jabour]

Recently, Arin Hanson released his long-awaited fourth Sequelitis video about Zelda, comparing Link to the Past to Ocarina of Time. I highly recommend watching it, although you will probably disagree with a large portion of it, as many already have. And that's fine. In the video, he encourages discussion and debate, although given that he posted it on YouTube, perhaps he should have been careful what he wished for.

Many people took him up on that offer, with some responding in a polite, civil manner, while others resorted to insults and personal attacks. (Again, YouTube - you kind of have to expect that.) What I took umbrage to was the commenters who called him 'pretentious'. You see that a lot nowadays, with many people pulling it out on anyone who tries to discuss games seriously. The grand prize goes to one such commenter on a similar series, who remarked, 'And I thought Extra Credits was pretentious!' Oh, boy...

Let me be clear on this: discussing videogames in such a manner as Mr. Hanson and others have is not pretentious. Being pretentious means you talk about something with the pretense (see, there it is) of knowing something you do not actually understand. And when it comes to videogames, Arin knows quite a bit. Watch his other Sequelitis videos if you doubt this. So does Extra Credits. So do most people who discuss these games on the internet.

When most people complain about pretensions, they seem to refer to philosophies that a person claims are true which they disagree with. For example, when he mentioned how the railroading narrative of Ocarina's story undermined the open world of Zelda tradition, people took that to be a criticism of story in general in favor of short, excuse plots. Not only is this missing the point completely, but it is in no way the grounds for calling somebody pretentious. No one person understands every last aspect about what makes a videogame great, and talking about the ones you believe hardly makes you pretentious.

So can we cool it with the P-word? These accusations can only stifle creative discussion, and the sooner we can stop misusing them, the better.

P. S. Because I know someone will bring it up: Moviebob is not pretentious, either. Presumptuous, sometimes, but not pretentious.

 

[Zhukov]

Ayup.

Personally, pretty sick of seeing the term levelled at any game that doesn't either look like a kids cartoon or bases itself on defeating the alien menace/enemies of America with headshots. Any game that attempts any kind of thematic unity or narrative weight. Any game that tries to experiment with what a game can do.

Or anybody who tries to talk about anything other than combos and headshots.

It's like people are terrified that every game is going to spontaneously morph into a French art-house film. Calm down folks. Your mindless fun is not going anywhere. It sells. It has always sold. It will continue to sell for the foreseeable future. Walk into a game store, close your eyes and throw a fucking stick.

 

[Pink Gregory]

When most people complain about pretensions, they seem to refer to philosophies that a person claims are true which they disagree with.

I thought the idea of pretentiousness was presenting yourself with an unwarranted air of importance?

But that's just conjecture.

 

[gargantual]

Meh. Its the internet. People will see what they want to see, we all have our biases. Some gamers see social critcism as jumping on the social media 'games are too etc' bandwagon. Rather than looking at each critique and seeing whats mechanical or subjective. Generally I think the term is pulled out when viewers see a criticisms of their beloved media they can seperate as subjective criticism vs a failure of said game or movie by any universal or personal metric.

Theres quite a bit of insecurity about the things we love in these communities. Just like console fanboyism. We all gotta realize people will be dicks about the media we love and we should learn to love stuff knowing they're hated by somebody even for legit reasons. the same way our folks hated stuff we were into in our youth. Even some of the most acclaimed works of history can't connect with all audiences and demographics. 99 percent of everything is good and 99 percent of everything is shit.

Its a matter of knowing why certain games resonate with us that makes criticism less harsh and able to take the good with the bad. When Bob dumped on Halo, the '300 spartan vs persian connections were already obvious . everyone knew master chief was a teeny bit dickish, or if not just cold, but considering his origins a nathan drake'd be a little OOC.

I'm sure theres more I could say but yeah....love is stronger than hate.

 

[TheIceQueen]

I think this forum has had enough people complaining about the word pretentious or else pointing out that people use it wrong:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.345634-Fun-With-Words-Pretentious

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.848224-The-word-pretentious-is-mostly-useless-or-self-defeating

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.393709-The-word-Pretentious-What-does-it-mean-to-you

We should find a different word to hate now. Preferably not entitlement.

Seriously, though, there's not much of a point making a thread complaining about people on the internet misusing a word. It's the internet. Everything gets misused. You eventually learn to get over it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

When most people complain about pretensions, they seem to refer to philosophies that a person claims are true which they disagree with.

I thought the idea of pretentiousness was presenting yourself with an unwarranted air of importance?

But that's just conjecture.

Simply put it's pretending to be something without actually earning it, the emphasis being on pretension rather than "being".

 

[VileTerror]

I might find it amusing that people seem to believe that critical analysis of anything which those people believe to be mundane somehow makes those doing the analyses self-important or delusional. I might, if I didn't find it so incredibly demoralizing.
It didn't take three replies to this thread before someone clearly missed the point. Like Zhukov says; calm down. If people want to try and improve the understanding of a subject through discussion, what do you have to lose? Let them have their discussions.

I'm not sure I agree with your definition of pretentious, Matthew, but I do agree that the sentiment behind the word is thrown around with far too much frequency, ESPECIALLY in discussions of gaming and ludology. People claiming that it's "just a game" and that it shouldn't be taken seriously are rather hypocritical. If it shouldn't be taken seriously, why would they feel it's a serious enough matter to need to comment on it?

 

[Racecarlock]

I hate how the phrase "Art game" even exists. It's slow and boring and has a narrative that's not interesting in the least. But that's okay, we put symbolism that people can read into in it.

And that's all it takes, apparently. Every day the same dream, dear esther, gone home. What do none of these things have? A story you can interact with like most people play video games to do. What do they all have? Abstract symbolism so that the creators can then suggest that the way you REALLY interact with the game is by thinking about the symbolism. In other words, there is literally nothing stopping me from looking at some still images of flowers or a statue or something and doing the same thing, but wait, you get to walk in these games. That's why they're called games, because you can walk in them.

Well, if these really are going to be considered games, fine. But they are the worst games I have ever played. Well, I haven't played gone home or dear esther, but every day the same dream had all the fun of watching paint dry. I don't give two shits about how much symbolism they have, they're still shit to me.

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

Haven't seen the Zelda one yet. I disagreed with some of the points made in his Castlevania video but I don't remember him saying that anything was more "intellectually stimulating" or artistic. He just listed what appealed to him about the first game and what turned him off from the later titles.

I think the only time the word pretentious has bothered me was when people used it to disparage anyone who dared to enjoy Bioshock: Infinite.

 

[Pogilrup]

I hate how the phrase "Art game" even exists. It's slow and boring and has a narrative that's not interesting in the least. But that's okay, we put symbolism that people can read into in it.

And that's all it takes, apparently. Every day the same dream, dear esther, gone home. What do none of these things have? A story you can interact with like most people play video games to do. What do they all have? Abstract symbolism so that the creators can then suggest that the way you REALLY interact with the game is by thinking about the symbolism. In other words, there is literally nothing stopping me from looking at some still images of flowers or a statue or something and doing the same thing, but wait, you get to walk in these games. That's why they're called games, because you can walk in them.

Well, if these really are going to be considered games, fine. But they are the worst games I have ever played. Well, I haven't played gone home or dear esther, but every day the same dream had all the fun of watching paint dry. I don't give two shits about how much symbolism they have, they're still shit to me.

Must every game follow the paradigm of having a challenge?

Captcha: well read. A requirement to make a good game that isn't about combat, survival or puzzles.

 

[brtt150]

When anyone tries to discuss anything intelligently you inevitably get the word "pretentious" thrown around. That's just how it is when you have a poorly educated population.

 

[Weaver]

pre·ten·tious
a) Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

b) expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature

I haven't seen the video but if his language of manner of speaking is pretentious for someone just talking about two zelda games, then I could see people using the term.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Walk into a game store, close your eyes and throw a fucking stick.

what, you think i'm some kind of barbarian, always carrying around a spear ready to be thrown?

how pretentious of you

*tries to hide stick behind back*

OT: yeah it seems like one of those go to words when someone doesn't like a persons points or argument, but can't come up with reasonable points themselves. Comes off as a bit childish, to be honest. That being said, I didn't watch the youtube video, so won't actually comment on any pretentiousness on that person.

(also a side point, there was a thread months back of someone not understanding why you wouldn't constantly express your prominence in knowledge by always using the biggest words possible and discussing only the most high thinking of subjects...to which I can't agree with, sometimes I like to mix it up and end up talking about cheeseburgers and how wet that fart just sounded, big deal.)

 

[Brown_Coat117]

All I can say is get used to it. This habit of using words to mean what people want them to just so they can convince themselves that they sound smarter or actually have a point isn't new and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Pretentious is just one word in a long line including misogyny and literally to fall into this category of being misused so often by so many people that they have become a glorified catch phrase rather that a word with meaning.

 

[the_great_cessation]

I agree and this is something that has bothered me for a long time. It seems to accompany an "anti-intellectual" mindset that permeates throughout the internet but is most prominent in the gaming community. For example, I've noticed a growing frustration that a majority of gamers have with the growing prominence of think pieces and critical discussions taking the place of more more traditional consumer reviews that list a set of features and assign a numerical score. Likewise, I see the word thrown around a lot as a negative descriptor for anything that tries to do anything more complex with narrative than an 80's action cartoon. The backlash the majority of 2013 titles got for being "too pretentious" was hard to stomach (I've seen this compliant levied against everything from AAA titles like Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us to indies like Gone Home and Papers, Please). It's something I'll never understand and find extremely frustrating...

 

[Racecarlock]

I hate how the phrase "Art game" even exists. It's slow and boring and has a narrative that's not interesting in the least. But that's okay, we put symbolism that people can read into in it.

And that's all it takes, apparently. Every day the same dream, dear esther, gone home. What do none of these things have? A story you can interact with like most people play video games to do. What do they all have? Abstract symbolism so that the creators can then suggest that the way you REALLY interact with the game is by thinking about the symbolism. In other words, there is literally nothing stopping me from looking at some still images of flowers or a statue or something and doing the same thing, but wait, you get to walk in these games. That's why they're called games, because you can walk in them.

Well, if these really are going to be considered games, fine. But they are the worst games I have ever played. Well, I haven't played gone home or dear esther, but every day the same dream had all the fun of watching paint dry. I don't give two shits about how much symbolism they have, they're still shit to me.

Must every game follow the paradigm of having a challenge?

Captcha: well read. A requirement to make a good game that isn't about combat, survival or puzzles.

No. Minecraft is a good game where you just build things if you're in creative mode. Sim life is another good creative game with an experimental mode. Hell, I play falling sand games. Those are fun. You draw elements and watch them interact. And some of those elements explode and it's fun.

Sandbox games are great for exploration. You find things that help you explore more or lead to some cool prize like a funny weapon or just a great song or something.

In fact, I don't like the hardcore crowd that insists every game must be super hard. I grew up with cheat codes because I found it fun to feel like a god.

Also, I never said these games should be eliminated. Just that I don't like them. What's wrong with that?

 

[Pogilrup]

No. Minecraft is a good game where you just build things if you're in creative mode. Sim life is another good creative game with an experimental mode. Hell, I play falling sand games. Those are fun. You draw elements and watch them interact. And some of those elements explode and it's fun.

Sandbox games are great for exploration. You find things that help you explore more or lead to some cool prize like a funny weapon or just a great song or something.

In fact, I don't like the hardcore crowd that insists every game must be super hard. I grew up with cheat codes because I found it fun to feel like a god.

Also, I never said these games should be eliminated. Just that I don't like them. What's wrong with that?

Very well then.

 

[Vault101]

pre·ten·tious
a) Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

b) expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature

I haven't seen the video but if his language of manner of speaking is pretentious for someone just talking about two zelda games, then I could see people using the term.

so it would be more like overly praising games like dear Esther or condemning the violence in Bioshock Infinite as though "game play" and "violence" were mutually exclusive with being "art"

I hate how the phrase "Art game" even exists. It's slow and boring and has a narrative that's not interesting in the least. But that's okay, we put symbolism that people can read into in it.

And that's all it takes, apparently. Every day the same dream, dear esther, gone home.

the first mistake is calling them "art" games (see my above point) as though thease games are inherintly "deeper" they are not

THAT SAID they are what they are, and they are videogames, they may not be the kind you like but thats perfectly fine, I loved the fuck out of Gone Home because I went in with the correct mindset required and I enjoyed it....its not for everyone and its not inherintly better than saaay XCOM

but theres room for all kinds of games and we shouldnt condmn one just because of percived pretentiousness on part of some critics

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Pretentious? Moi?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

When most people complain about pretensions, they seem to refer to philosophies that a person claims are true which they disagree with.

I don't think this is an example of pretension, although you are probably right in that people are misusing the word.

Pretentious is acting like or claiming you belong in a different class for very thin reasons. Non gaming example, but Baz Luhrmann is staggeringly pretentious (or to use the Australian vernacular, a wanker). He once claimed that the film 'Australia' was above criticism because it's in a a completely different category to everything else, he said it was an epic like Gone With The Wind.

David Cage is about the closest gaming example I can think of:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123809-Heavy-Rain-Director-Creates-Experiences-Not-Products
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113362-Heavy-Rain-Creator-The-U-S-Has-Problems-With-My-Games