I have a bone to pick with XCOM: Enemy Unknown.

[romxxii]

the base layouts. They're randomized, but one layout (having multiple steam vents next to the elevator shaft) is objectively better than any other. On harder difficulties it's barely worth trying with a less than ideal starting layout. This means that the most advantageous thing to do is to keep restarting until you get a good one. Which is boring and wastes time. The game should just give a good layout or allow the player to pick from several.

In the Classic game I finished, I had two thermal vents, both far from the elevator. Still managed to win, and only lost Russia.

See, XCOM:EU is a game where you can fail through no fault of your own. You could play a perfect mission, but then two thin men get lucky critical hits, your heavy misses a rocket and the mission goes south regardless of your best efforts.

The trick is stacking the deck in your favor. Bring medics and cannon fodder, use the special armors, don't over-extend your forces, don't ever push your luck just because you've got a clear line of sight and 90% chance to hit, and always, always have a backup plan.

So far the safest team I've ever built are three snipers (everyone else was injured), crawling them inexorably forward, making sure they end on Overwatch.

That would be fine on its own, but the game doesn't really allow you much room to fail. You can swallow one failed mission, maybe two, three and you're basically done. Plus each failure will make future failure more likely because of the loss of experienced troops. I feel that giving me a game over because a dice roll didn't go my way is not inspired game design.

The designers literally wanted to recreate the feeling of helplessness of fighting a stronger, tougher, smarter, and more heavily armed opponent. So yeah, your frustration was intentional.

Oh, and thin men dropping out of the sky during council missions is just plain bullshit.

Whaddaya talkin' 'bout, those guys are my favorite. They drop in, trigger my boys on Overwatch. If I didn't have them anybody on Overwatch duty, then squad sniper+in the zone clears them out before anyone else makes a move.

 

[Zhukov]

The free movement on discovery is the first and last straw, simply due to the fact that it renders most actual tactics completely moot. Flanking is a game mechanic primarily for the enemy to employ on the player and not the player on the enemy.

Nonsense. The "free movement on discovery" is actually a player advantage that translates into a significantly easier game. It allows you to pick and choose your tactics at will and impose them on the enemy without ever being caught out or blind sided.

If it was removed the game would be difficult to the point of being broken.

I've seen you have this argument before, and I generally agree with you.

However, the free move thing does occasionally screw you over, especially with melee aliens who always use their free move to charge. I've had previously unseen chrysalids run in from off screen during the alien turn, do the 'oh look, aliens!' animation, trigger two overwatchers who promptly missed, then use their free move to get right up next to my troops. Then on my turn one of my soldiers missed a 85% shot and that's it, mission over.

Also had it happen with berserkers, although that's not so bad since they don't come in groups and you can ping-pong them back and forth.

Also had zombies spawn out of sight, move, attack and kill all on the same turn.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I've seen you have this argument before, and I generally agree with you.

However, the free move thing does occasionally screw you over, especially with melee aliens who always use their free move to charge. I've had previously unseen chrysalids run in from off screen during the alien turn, do the 'oh look, aliens!' animation, trigger two overwatchers who promptly missed, then use their free move to get right up next to my troops. Then on my turn one of my soldiers missed a 85% shot and that's it, mission over.

Also had it happen with berserkers, although that's not so bad since they don't come in groups and you can ping-pong them back and forth.

Also had zombies spawn out of sight, move, attack and kill all on the same turn.

It certainly can put you in uncomfortable positions. The alternative, of course, would be enemy patrols bungling into your position out of the fog of war and immediately opening fire, and/or enemies crouched in overwatch sniping you before you were even aware they existed (always a cheerful occurrence in JA2). If you think the "it's too random" complaints are bad now...

It's an imperfect and "gamey" solution that gives the impression of an alien bonus when it's actually an alien handicap.

 

[tilmoph]

I agree they need a difficulty between normal and classic. The first time I bumped up to classic, I had a hell of a time adjusting. Once you get used to the up gunned aliens, it actually becomes reasonable. I would also like the increased numbers of aliens from impossible but with the stats of classic (4 hit point sectoids is bullshit).

I like the randomness, actually. It's not like it's totally random, or completely out of your hands. Yes, once in a while you'll eat a really crappy run (I remember "Dancing Muton" so well; 4 93+% shots in a row, he dodges them all, including a double shot from my back-up assaulter), it adds fun to have to scramble and come up with a new plan when things go wrong.

Some more balancing would be nice; supports need something to make them more competitive with the other classes, and snipers need to be nerfed a bit to make them less overpowered once the get squadsight (let alone double tap or in the zone), but overall I think it's well done, the early part is intense, the mid game can be broken once you have a handle on what your doing but can surprise and late game....ok, look, I don't mind end-game being easier than early, to give a sense of acheivment after all the hours you've put into it, but sweet Baby Jesus, aside from the first introduction of the Sectopod, nothing really worries me, and Sectopods stop being a problem once ghost armor-alloy cannon combos become default. So some work there, but overall, I really like how they set the game up.

 

[King Billi]

I've been interested in perhaps giving this game a try but I've heard these exact complaints from nearly everyone I know whose played it, even those who claim to really enjoy it.

Would anyone say that these issues ruin the game at all or is it still enjoyable to play? I don't have alot of experience with whatever genre of game this belongs too but from what I've heard about it sounds like something I feel I would like.

 

[doomed89]

I agree they need a difficulty between normal and classic. The first time I bumped up to classic, I had a hell of a time adjusting. Once you get used to the up gunned aliens, it actually becomes reasonable. I would also like the increased numbers of aliens from impossible but with the stats of classic (4 hit point sectoids is bullshit).

I like the randomness, actually. It's not like it's totally random, or completely out of your hands. Yes, once in a while you'll eat a really crappy run (I remember "Dancing Muton" so well; 4 93+% shots in a row, he dodges them all, including a double shot from my back-up assaulter), it adds fun to have to scramble and come up with a new plan when things go wrong.

Some more balancing would be nice; supports need something to make them more competitive with the other classes, and snipers need to be nerfed a bit to make them less overpowered once the get squadsight (let alone double tap or in the zone), but overall I think it's well done, the early part is intense, the mid game can be broken once you have a handle on what your doing but can surprise and late game....ok, look, I don't mind end-game being easier than early, to give a sense of acheivment after all the hours you've put into it, but sweet Baby Jesus, aside from the first introduction of the Sectopod, nothing really worries me, and Sectopods stop being a problem once ghost armor-alloy cannon combos become default. So some work there, but overall, I really like how they set the game up.

Are you kidding me support are the best class (aside from snipers), they have assault abilities (like rifle suppression and the react to shots) as well as well support actions like triple med kits and deep pockets(awesome ability) and the smoke can save your ass when you are suck in low cover or even no cover, and the sprinter ability gives the greatest mobility. Honestly the assault class I think is the weakest their only good move really is run and gun. Heavy's are very situation sometimes they are awesome sometimes they are just slow and miss a lot. But it's usually worth it to have one on the team. Snipers are awesome though. The drones are good cannon folder as they can't get flanked and have good armor and even get suppression and flight. I'd put them on par with heavies.

I've been interested in perhaps giving this game a try but I've heard these exact complaints from nearly everyone I know whose played it, even those who claim to really enjoy it.

Would anyone say that these issues ruin the game at all or is it still enjoyable to play? I don't have alot of experience with whatever genre of game this belongs too but from what I've heard about it sounds like something I feel I would like.

The issues are definitely not game breaking, if they were this game wouldn't be this popular.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I've been interested in perhaps giving this game a try but I've heard these exact complaints from nearly everyone I know whose played it, even those who claim to really enjoy it.

Would anyone say that these issues ruin the game at all or is it still enjoyable to play? I don't have alot of experience with whatever genre of game this belongs too but from what I've heard about it sounds like something I feel I would like.

They're not game breaking, they're just player-annoying.

I'm also not entirely sure what issues you're referring to. There are a few widely parroted "issues" that are just straight up incorrect.

 

[tilmoph]

Are you kidding me support are the best class (aside from snipers), they have assault abilities (like rifle suppression and the react to shots) as well as well support actions like triple med kits and deep pockets(awesome ability) and the smoke can save your ass when you are suck in low cover or even no cover, and the sprinter ability gives the greatest mobility. Honestly the assault class I think is the weakest their only good move really is run and gun. Heavy's are very situation sometimes they are awesome sometimes they are just slow and miss a lot. But it's usually worth it to have one on the team. Snipers are awesome though. The drones are good cannon folder as they can't get flanked and have good armor and even get suppression and flight. I'd put them on par with heavies.

We're going to have to disagree on this one. It's not that supports are completely useless (deep pockets is my favorite magor level ability) they just aren't all that great. The heavies rocket is amazing; it does solid damage up until the late game, and more importantly, it nukes cover better than a grenade. Their bonus damage against robots isn't anything to sneer at either. Yes, I know, there is only like 3 robot enemies in the game, but cyberdiscs are some of the toughest enemies in the mid-game (second only to chrysallids, and I can see an argument that reverses their places), and sectopods get my vote for toughest enemy period.

Assaults the weakest? Really? Early, to mid-game, if your using them as shotgunners, sure, ok, it's a bit of a bother, but crit speced and using a rifle? They're flanking machines. Even if you can't quite get a flank, they're high maneuverability and crit chance and damage boosting abilities make them absolutely deadly. And of course, once alloy-cannons come along, they become "frag on super baddy free" cards.

Snipers, post squad-sight, speak for themselves.

So it's not that supports can't do anything useful, it's just that, compared to everyone else, they just kinda fall by the wayside. I really don't even bother with medkits after the extremely early game, and even then, it's just for escort missions to deal with thinman spitting on the VIP. Their overwatch boosts are nice (to of them and hitting on fire rather than movement), and I've played around with them, but they just don't compare to "nuke enemy cover + damage" or "flank everyone, or just run-up and rapid fire drop them" or "one-shot, one-kill from across the map; possibly more if the heavy dropped their cover".

EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing; did you forget Lightning Reflexes? The ability to safely draw overwatch fire, clearing a path for the rest of the team, is just beautiful. yes, only one completely safe overwatch can be drawn, but 9 times out of 10, that's all you really need to draw to break a bottleneck and reposition.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

So it's not that supports can't do anything useful, it's just that, compared to everyone else, they just kinda fall by the wayside.

1 Support, 1 Assault is pretty much standard. You're correct of course that Support is by far the least combat capable class, but if you're not save scumming you're going to want some kind of battlefield recovery available, and Support fills that role a lot more capably than having your front line troops waste inventory on half-powered med kits. Smoke is pretty invaluable on Impossible too.

Heavies + Snipers are the workhorses though.

 

[doomed89]

We're going to have to disagree on this one. It's not that supports are completely useless (deep pockets is my favorite magor level ability) they just aren't all that great. The heavies rocket is amazing; it does solid damage up until the late game, and more importantly, it nukes cover better than a grenade. Their bonus damage against robots isn't anything to sneer at either. Yes, I know, there is only like 3 robot enemies in the game, but cyberdiscs are some of the toughest enemies in the mid-game (second only to chrysallids, and I can see an argument that reverses their places), and sectopods get my vote for toughest enemy period.

Assaults the weakest? Really? Early, to mid-game, if your using them as shotgunners, sure, ok, it's a bit of a bother, but crit speced and using a rifle? They're flanking machines. Even if you can't quite get a flank, they're high maneuverability and crit chance and damage boosting abilities make them absolutely deadly. And of course, once alloy-cannons come along, they become "frag on super baddy free" cards.

Snipers, post squad-sight, speak for themselves.

So it's not that supports can't do anything useful, it's just that, compared to everyone else, they just kinda fall by the wayside. I really don't even bother with medkits after the extremely early game, and even then, it's just for escort missions to deal with thinman spitting on the VIP. Their overwathc boosts are nice (to of them and hitting on fire rather than movement), and I've played around with them, but they just don't compare to "nuke enemy cover + damage" or "flank everyone, or just run-up and rapid fire drop them" or "one-shot, one-kill from across the map; possibly more if the heavy dropped their cover".

Like I said before supports are more maneuverable then assaults and I'm playing with the absolutely critical modifier on so the bonus to crit is absolutely useless. Assaults would probably be a lot more useful if the run and gun didn't lock out all actions except fire, which makes supports best for arc thrower since they have the most speed, and the deep pockets. Supports I think are the most well rounded which makes them the best "normal" soldier where snipers and heavies are more special soldiers.

Also I know heavies are godly in certain situations but like I said they are very situation sometimes you can clear a map without any need to shoot a rocket and their low aim and what seems like slower movement is just a nuisance in that case and in alien assault missions you don't want to cause too much damage to the ship because it cuts into your profits. Running up and rapid fire and such tactics just seem like bad tactics to me, if you trip another alien squad you are screwed. Oh I did forget one other useful ability for assaults though, lightning reflexes very good if you need to get an alien off overwatch and the close combat thing is good against melee opponents but all and all supports are the better class. I don't see any reason to have more then one assault. 1 assault, 1-2 snipers depending on the map, 1 heavy and the rest support or drone is the way to go.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

I never played hard mode nor ironman mode because I am a pussy. But I know few things.

1. When thinman drops in council mission, they are almost ~95% likely to go overwatch, even if they are right in front of you.

thus getting lightning reflexes are good investment.

2. But just in case you missed them in the point plank range. make your sniper take squadsight and take SCOPE. go to the highest ground and wait. they can literally shoot from the halfway across map with questionable accuracy.

snip

I found assults to be most effective at the end. Mainly because of their utility and their sheer firepower.

First of all, ghost armor. you are guaranteed to have no extra squad by making one cloaked squadmember to walk in. I used 2 assults and that's free 8 room check.

Second, damn good utility. I've never had my assault out of the reach of the battle thanks to the gun and run + rapid fire. which brings me to the other point - damage. I would never turn down firepower that can kill berserker in a single turn.

 

[doomed89]

I never played hard mode nor ironman mode because I am a pussy. But I know few things.

1. When thinman drops in council mission, they are almost ~95% likely to go overwatch, even if they are right in front of you.

thus getting lightning reflexes are good investment.

2. But just in case you missed them in the point plank range. make your sniper take squadsight and take SCOPE. go to the highest ground and wait. they can literally shoot from the halfway across map with questionable accuracy.

Not 95%, 100% they go in overwatch when they drop down that's how it's programmed. So yeah they aren't much of a threat unless the guy you are trying to save is the closet to them and you have no one who can shoot and your assault with lightning reflexes is on the other side of the map. Normally you can just shoot them though.

 

[tilmoph]

Like I said before supports are more maneuverable then assaults and I'm playing with the absolutely critical modifier on so the bonus to crit is absolutely useless. Assaults would probably be a lot more useful if the run and gun didn't lock out all actions except fire, which makes supports best for arc thrower since they have the most speed, and the deep pockets. Supports I think are the most well rounded which makes them the best "normal" soldier where snipers and heavies are more special soldiers.

Also I know heavies are godly in certain situations but like I said they are very situation sometimes you can clear a map without any need to shoot a rocket and their low aim and what seems like slower movement is just a nuisance in that case and in alien assault missions you don't want to cause too much damage to the ship because it cuts into your profits. Running up and rapid fire and such tactics just seem like bad tactics to me, if you trip another alien squad you are screwed. Oh I did forget one other useful ability for assaults though, lightning reflexes very good if you need to get an alien off overwatch and the close combat thing is good against melee opponents but all and all supports are the better class. I don't see any reason to have more then one assault. 1 assault, 1-2 snipers depending on the map, 1 heavy and the rest support or drone is the way to go.

I do like the supports for capture with the extra move and item slot, but capturing is a thing I normally do once I've already got a solid combat team sat up and want to move the story along, or want some free plasma guns. Of course, that does cause a slight slowdown to my research, since I'm not maximizing my use of the credits, but I never have problems teching up regardless, so it never really bothered me.

I like playing with absolutely critical as well, but you can't always get a flank, and in those cases, extra crit chance is definitely a good thing. And the extra damage on a crit is well worth it. Even if it's just one or two points more, that can be the difference between a dead xeno and a dead soldier. Or one dead alien and two, since you don't need any follow-up actions to drop the first one.

Honestly, I've been playing with Not created Equal and Hidden Potential on for so long (it just seems right to me, that each soldier is different beyond what class they have) that I kinda forgot how crap a base heavies aim is. Still, bullet swarm can help offset their bad aim, and their machine guns do very solid damage. And even if you don't have any cover to blow up, rockets have very nice AoE, which means you're going to drop or damage multiple enemies most of the time, which really helps with follow-up attacks.

I'll admit again that early game, run n gun into somethings face with a rapid fire shotgun is bad tactics to pull. The assault is probably just going to die. That's why I said rifle assaults early to mid game, since you aren't going to throw them out in the open, and reduce the risk of drawing more mobs into the fray. I prefer rifle assaults over supports because of rapid fire plus bonus damage plus extra crit chance when you can't flank (or can't risk the flank).

Late game, ghost armor grants bonus move plus a 20 def bonus on top of grappling and cloaking, so running up and alloy cannoning something's face off after ghosting is a solid way to handle big, troublesome enemies or enemies in a potion to really damage you next turn. Ghosting first solves the accidental draw problem since they won't see you.

 

[Zhukov]

So you think normal mode is too easy. And? I know people who don't. I know a lot of people who play games, but not too many strategy games, that would struggle on Easy mode, which is quite a challenge for the uninitiated.

Oh, I'm sure some people love normal mode. I'm not saying it should go away, I just wish there was something in the middle.

 

[Smiley Face]

To the original point, I would say that if you find the game too punishing because the OpForce keeps wrecking your side, perhaps the solution is to NOT play on Ironman? I mean... that's what Ironman does, it punishes you when you aren't adequately prepared for trouble. Not having Ironman on, the vanilla game, mitigates the punishing game mechanics by letting you correct your mistakes - or at least, prepare for the worst, when an army of Chryssalids blitzes you out of nowhere.

Are you kidding me support are the best class (aside from snipers), they have assault abilities (like rifle suppression and the react to shots) as well as well support actions like triple med kits and deep pockets(awesome ability) and the smoke can save your ass when you are suck in low cover or even no cover, and the sprinter ability gives the greatest mobility. Honestly the assault class I think is the weakest their only good move really is run and gun. Heavy's are very situation sometimes they are awesome sometimes they are just slow and miss a lot. But it's usually worth it to have one on the team. Snipers are awesome though. The drones are good cannon folder as they can't get flanked and have good armor and even get suppression and flight. I'd put them on par with heavies.

Generally I run one of each, upgrading it to 2 assaults and 2 snipers. Assault really are quite excellent - Run and Gun is their best ability, yes, but they also have Rapid Fire, which lets them be sure to kill just about anything, Lightning Reflexes, which makes overwatch a non-issue, and then there's that one where they shoot anything that moves within 4 spaces of them, making them a defensive line as well as an offensive one. And they get a straight up defensive bonus, if you give it to them. Run and Gun though, is amazing, because positioning is what XCom is all about, and Run and Gunning handles that neatly. That's also why Snipers are so good - Squad Sight, in most circumstances, removes the need for positioning.

As for Support and Heavies, for Support they've got a lot of neat abilities, but they're either not good enough, or not ones I need 2 of. I don't need 2 triple medkits, I rarely use more than 2. I don't really need react-to-shooting overwatch, because if I can see it, I'm often better off just shooting it. I don't need 2 smoke grenades, and more often than not, I don't need one. And as for suppressive fire - handy, sometimes, but I don't need too much of it, because often, I just need my support guy to shoot. Heavies are good - it's just that their strength, the rocket, i often a gamble I don't want to take - either it's being used against small guys, and it'll destroy resources when it kills them, or it's being used against big guys, and it won't finish them off - and in that situation, I'd rather have another shotgunner, who can kill most anything, than another heavy. Against the big robots, they're useful - but they have so much bonus damage against them that 1 heavy is all you need. And then there's double-attack or suppressive fire - which are really handy, but not enough to supplant the sniper or the assault.

 

[doomed89]

I do like the supports for capture with the extra move and item slot, but capturing is a thing I normally do once I've already got a solid combat team sat up and want to move the story along, or want some free plasma guns. Of course, that does cause a slight slowdown to my research, since I'm not maximizing my use of the credits, but I never have problems teching up regardless, so it never really bothered me.

I like playing with absolutely critical as well, but you can't always get a flank, and in those cases, extra crit chance is definitely a good thing. And the extra damage on a crit is well worth it. Even if it's just one or two points more, that can be the difference between a dead xeno and a dead soldier. Or one dead alien and two, since you don't need any follow-up actions to drop the first one.

Honestly, I've been playing with Not created Equal and Hidden Potential on for so long (it just seems right to me, that each soldier is different beyond what class they have) that I kinda forgot how crap a base heavies aim is. Still, bullet swarm can help offset their bad aim, and their machine guns do very solid damage. And even if you don't have any cover to blow up, rockets have very nice AoE, which means you're going to drop or damage multiple enemies most of the time, which really helps with follow-up attacks.

I'll admit again that early game, run n gun into somethings face with a rapid fire shotgun is bad tactics to pull. The assault is probably just going to die. That's why I said rifle assaults early to mid game, since you aren't going to throw them out in the open, and reduce the risk of drawing more mobs into the fray. I prefer rifle assaults over supports because of rapid fire plus bonus damage plus extra crit chance when you can't flank (or can't risk the flank).

Late game, ghost armor grants bonus move plus a 20 def bonus on top of grappling and cloaking, so running up and alloy cannoning something's face off after ghosting is a solid way to handle big, troublesome enemies or enemies in a potion to really damage you next turn. Ghosting first solves the accidental draw problem since they won't see you.

Even with not created equal and hidden potential my heavies seem to have crap aim, could just be a bad roll though and I only got like 3 heavies out of like 40 soldiers. Where I am in the game right now is on impossible after the alien base with a ton of light plasma guns so heavies aren't really useful right now outside of the rocket launcher which I don't really want to use since I'm low on weapon fragment so I'd only really use on mutton's and terror missions. As for the extra crit I don't really need it since a crit usual does 90% damage to the health where a normal hit would do 50% and I can usually flank anyways and rapid fire is completely useless unless you are right in front of them because of the drastic aim penalty.

As for the ghost armor I really don't see why you can't do that with a support class, it will do a little less damage but not by that much, and the extra mobility while cloak makes more of your turns.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Nonsense. The "free movement on discovery" is actually a player advantage that translates into a significantly easier game. It allows you to pick and choose your tactics at will and impose them on the enemy without ever being caught out or blind sided.

If it was removed the game would be difficult to the point of being broken.

I know. But I don't like that design much.

Because of that design, the player doesn't have much choice for tactics. You either get to cover and do one of three things:
1) Trade Fire between cover. (tends to favor the enemy heavily when I try it)
2) Assault-Rush w/Suppress
3) Explosives (remove cover, or splash behind cover)

If you're damned lucky, you might be able to flank them or get some height advantage, but usually, moving up to flank triggers yet more aliens and leads to YOU getting flanked. This leads to the principle reason why Overwatch Squadsight Snipers and Assault are so powerful; they usually trump the system (snipers LOVE "vertical" engagements where they can hang back; Assaults "Horizontal" engagements where they can move to solitary targets and assassinate them up close).

Again, I know they had to do that because of the tiny squad size limit (which itself was to limit the necessary management).

 

[doomed89]

Generally I run one of each, upgrading it to 2 assaults and 2 snipers. Assault really are quite excellent - Run and Gun is their best ability, yes, but they also have Rapid Fire, which lets them be sure to kill just about anything, Lightning Reflexes, which makes overwatch a non-issue, and then there's that one where they shoot anything that moves within 4 spaces of them, making them a defensive line as well as an offensive one. And they get a straight up defensive bonus, if you give it to them. Run and Gun though, is amazing, because positioning is what XCom is all about, and Run and Gunning handles that neatly. That's also why Snipers are so good - Squad Sight, in most circumstances, removes the need for positioning.

As for Support and Heavies, for Support they've got a lot of neat abilities, but they're either not good enough, or not ones I need 2 of. I don't need 2 triple medkits, I rarely use more than 2. I don't really need react-to-shooting overwatch, because if I can see it, I'm often better off just shooting it. I don't need 2 smoke grenades, and more often than not, I don't need one. And as for suppressive fire - handy, sometimes, but I don't need too much of it, because often, I just need my support guy to shoot. Heavies are good - it's just that their strength, the rocket, i often a gamble I don't want to take - either it's being used against small guys, and it'll destroy resources when it kills them, or it's being used against big guys, and it won't finish them off - and in that situation, I'd rather have another shotgunner, who can kill most anything, than another heavy. Against the big robots, they're useful - but they have so much bonus damage against them that 1 heavy is all you need. And then there's double-attack or suppressive fire - which are really handy, but not enough to supplant the sniper or the assault.

You probably don't need 6 medkits or smoke pellets no but it is useful to have 2 soldiers capable of reviving/healing/throwing smoke allows for a bigger net, same with the move bonus, you can spread your soldiers a little thinner without any real consequences and deep pockets makes them awesome you can trade off the triple med kit for two unique items. You could have one support with defense smoke and the other with offensive smoke. One with all the combat abilities and one with all the support abilities. They are simply the most versatile.

As for assaults you said with the react to shooting overwatch you'd probably just shoot at them but isn't the same true of the lightning reflexes skill? I mean the only time I really use it is on council missions on the drop down thin men, and don't forget that some enemies can come into sight on a wall and shoot without triggering any of your overwatch guys. and the rapid fire is useless unless you are right next to the guy and even then it can miss, honestly I find flush more useful for when an alien is low on health and you want a bonus to aim or if your sniper shot is blocked and the bonus to crit isn't really helpful when you have absolutely critical on.

Heavy's are good for if you are facing off against a lot of strong enemies, the rocket is a good range attack and can kill the cover of mutons and damage to to half health while killing cover also good against crystalists but you're right as a shooter they aren't that good. Like I said before they are very situation in some situations they are the best thing possible. One map in a normal town I was in a building with my guys and mutons right outside the door along the side wall ready to flank, shot a rocket hit all 3 with 6 and tore away their cover, 3 shots later and they are dead.

 

[doomed89]

I know. But I don't like that design much.

Because of that design, the player doesn't have much choice for tactics. You either get to cover and do one of three things:
1) Trade Fire between cover. (tends to favor the enemy heavily when I try it)
2) Assault-Rush w/Suppress
3) Explosives (remove cover, or splash behind cover)

If you're damned lucky, you might be able to flank them or get some height advantage, but usually, moving up to flank triggers yet more aliens and leads to YOU getting flanked. This leads to the principle reason why Overwatch Squadsight Snipers and Assault are so powerful; they usually trump the system (snipers LOVE "vertical" engagements where they can hang back; Assaults "Horizontal" engagements where they can move to solitary targets and assassinate them up close).

Again, I know they had to do that because of the tiny squad size limit (which itself was to limit the necessary management).

There's actually a forth tactic (and usually the best in alot of situations) fall back outside of the enemies sight and go on overwatch. Probably the most effective.

 

[tilmoph]

Even with not created equal and hidden potential my heavies seem to have crap aim, could just be a bad roll though and I only got like 3 heavies out of like 40 soldiers. Where I am in the game right now is on impossible after the alien base with a ton of light plasma guns so heavies aren't really useful right now outside of the rocket launcher which I don't really want to use since I'm low on weapon fragment so I'd only really use on mutton's and terror missions. As for the extra crit I don't really need it since a crit usual does 90% damage to the health where a normal hit would do 50% and I can usually flank anyways and rapid fire is completely useless unless you are right in front of them because of the drastic aim penalty.

As for the ghost armor I really don't see why you can't do that with a support class, it will do a little less damage but not by that much, and the extra mobility while cloak makes more of your turns.

Rapid fire is far from completely useless with the aim penalty. At worst, if your base hit chance is about 29% or worse, it's a push in terms of average damage output. at 30% or better, the average damage starts to exceed a standard shot (though not by much at that point). Rapid shot is also why I'd prefer a ghosted assault over a ghosted support. Well, that and alloy cannon.

Having said that, I concede my initial point regarding supports needing a buff. It seems I just haven't been using supports as well as I could have, since I initially saw them as medics and captures. I still, personally, would take an assault over a support in almost all cases if given a choice, but I'll concede that that's a matter of personal preference and playstyle rather than an accurate assessment of the supports full capabilities.