I have never played fallout 1.
- Thread starter jamesc
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The Fallout series had a learning curve that was pretty steep. This is just an invitation for the fanboy/failboy wars to begin again though.
I've never played the first Fallout, but I know a guy who keeps trying to get me to. Wants me to download about 9 different emulators and programs for it.
What evidence do you have that anyone "hates" Fallout 3? I've seen several people say that they won't *play* Fallout 3 because it's not like the earlier Fallout games (more power to them; if I really liked the format of the first 2 I probably wouldn't have bothered with 3 either).
I also doubt it's nostalgia, although some people may be remembering the older games more fondly than they deserve. If you've played the older games several times you probably don't remember just how frustratingly difficult they were the first time through. Every game gets easier with practice and familiarity often makes the quirks enjoyable.
I think it is more likely that the things they liked about Fallout and Fallout 2 were not replicated in 3, or not replicated to the degree that made the earlier games uniquely enjoyable to them. Certainly the dialog depth and complexity of options have suffered, although if you look at 3 as Oblivion trying to incorporate Fallout instead of the other way around it's much *improved* from Bethesda's earlier efforts.
Bethesda does every aspect of CRPG's reasonably well EXCEPT for the role-playing, and they are improving in that respect. In perhaps 1 or 2 more games I expect they will be approaching Bioware in characterization and storytelling abilities, and they already do scenery and freedom a lot better than Bioware has.
I also doubt it's nostalgia, although some people may be remembering the older games more fondly than they deserve. If you've played the older games several times you probably don't remember just how frustratingly difficult they were the first time through. Every game gets easier with practice and familiarity often makes the quirks enjoyable.
I think it is more likely that the things they liked about Fallout and Fallout 2 were not replicated in 3, or not replicated to the degree that made the earlier games uniquely enjoyable to them. Certainly the dialog depth and complexity of options have suffered, although if you look at 3 as Oblivion trying to incorporate Fallout instead of the other way around it's much *improved* from Bethesda's earlier efforts.
Bethesda does every aspect of CRPG's reasonably well EXCEPT for the role-playing, and they are improving in that respect. In perhaps 1 or 2 more games I expect they will be approaching Bioware in characterization and storytelling abilities, and they already do scenery and freedom a lot better than Bioware has.
I personally like both games, I thought one was good fun, though the wasteland was a little too generic for my taste, I also like Fallout 3 though and feel that the atmosphere and humor remains true to the first two.
I agree that many of the haters are probably influenced by nostalgia, which makes them think a great old game is god incarnate
I agree that many of the haters are probably influenced by nostalgia, which makes them think a great old game is god incarnate
No shit you didn't like it. The same reason people that played oblivion and then morrowind didn't like it. Because it's not a fast paced, graphically advanced shooter. Boo-Fucking-Hoo.It's still one of the greatest RPG's ever made.
I liked Fallout 1 and 2, and im having fun with 3. There is a big difference between the two, but a lot of it feels the same too. Your actions and speech in 3 dont seem to have as much effect on the game as in 1 and 2, but im still near the beginning so there could just be stuff I missed.
The only thing I wish was that the combat felt smoother- either having it work more like an FPS, or felt more realistic and less like sending huge volleys of bullets at your enemies and soaking a ton in return.
It seems like bullets dont do much damage - they seem to do as much as in the old games but everyone has 4 times the hp- unless you use VATS for a head shot. Then again I am playing on hard.
I would still recommend playing all 3, but for different reasons.
The only thing I wish was that the combat felt smoother- either having it work more like an FPS, or felt more realistic and less like sending huge volleys of bullets at your enemies and soaking a ton in return.
It seems like bullets dont do much damage - they seem to do as much as in the old games but everyone has 4 times the hp- unless you use VATS for a head shot. Then again I am playing on hard.
I would still recommend playing all 3, but for different reasons.
Nostalgia's probably the primary reason for most of the hatred of Fallout 3, despite the reasons frequently cited (which are valid.) I played Fallout 1 and 2 a while ago (never finished 2) and found them to be decent games. I preferred Arcanum and Planescape: Torment over them, though.
After playing it for a bit, it reminds me of a cross between S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Oblivion, with the original Fallout games and a bit of Bioshock thrown in. I'll scribble down a few thoughts I have about it. Note: I haven't completed the game yet.
+ They kept the character development and choices of Fallout much better than I expected Bethesda to do, given the lack of meaningful social interaction in their previous games. It's not to the level of the old games, but above the majority of RPGs out there.
+I really like their implementation of the SPECIAL system over their earlier games of continuously increasing stats with obtuse level-up schemes. Them sticking to an actual experience system really helps to avoid the insane level-grinding that people who want to make powerful characters in Morrowind and Oblivion are strongly encouraged to do.
+/- Karma's better than anything in Morrowind or Oblivion. But the negative Karma associated with stealing from almost anyone in the game makes any serious thief forced to be evil. If I recall correctly, Fallout 1 and 2 both had better implementation of Karma, though that is a subjective opinion.
+/- Having distinct, interesting characters is not something that Fallout ever did well, and Fallout 3 carries on the tradition.
-Perks could have been better done IMO; the list's a bit short for something gotten every level and many are uninspired. Not carrying over traits from Fallout 1 and 2 also was an unnecessary blow to character diversity.
- The environment's not all that diverse. It's just ruined building after ruined building, with rubble scattered everywhere. It also diverts from the vast wasteland iconic of Fallout, which isn't necessarily bad.
- The game's stability very much sucks in grand Bethesda tradition; it's rife with crashes and has a few gameplay bugs (very much in keeping the tradition set by Fallout 2, though.)
-The inventory management is very much a Bethesda staple; a great deal of your time picking up countless amounts of useless crap and juggling it to sell it to merchants who don't have enough money. Limited inventory space and no way to sort it only compounds the problem. An automatic application of the Barter skill helps though.
- Combat's clunky in the style of Oblivion, and VATS has some serious issues with cover. Queuing up a few shots and having the all hit the wall right next to you annoys.
- The extravagant gore gets old fast and slowing down with every execution doesn't help. You could at least turn it down in the old games.
- I haven't seen a great deal that money is good for in a way that directly helps you in combat, unlike the earlier games. You can scrounge up stuff that is better than what you can get in shops, usually. Ammo is handy, but you can normally buy all of it out of any store you encounter for tuppence.
-The followers are possessed with insipid AI: a tradition of the series. Bethesda got it right here, except that they occasionally block your exit from a building and run in the way of your weapons.
I doubt 3's worse than Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel, but it might be better than Tactics. Fallout 1 and 2 are still better than 3 in my opinion.
After playing it for a bit, it reminds me of a cross between S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Oblivion, with the original Fallout games and a bit of Bioshock thrown in. I'll scribble down a few thoughts I have about it. Note: I haven't completed the game yet.
+ They kept the character development and choices of Fallout much better than I expected Bethesda to do, given the lack of meaningful social interaction in their previous games. It's not to the level of the old games, but above the majority of RPGs out there.
+I really like their implementation of the SPECIAL system over their earlier games of continuously increasing stats with obtuse level-up schemes. Them sticking to an actual experience system really helps to avoid the insane level-grinding that people who want to make powerful characters in Morrowind and Oblivion are strongly encouraged to do.
+/- Karma's better than anything in Morrowind or Oblivion. But the negative Karma associated with stealing from almost anyone in the game makes any serious thief forced to be evil. If I recall correctly, Fallout 1 and 2 both had better implementation of Karma, though that is a subjective opinion.
+/- Having distinct, interesting characters is not something that Fallout ever did well, and Fallout 3 carries on the tradition.
-Perks could have been better done IMO; the list's a bit short for something gotten every level and many are uninspired. Not carrying over traits from Fallout 1 and 2 also was an unnecessary blow to character diversity.
- The environment's not all that diverse. It's just ruined building after ruined building, with rubble scattered everywhere. It also diverts from the vast wasteland iconic of Fallout, which isn't necessarily bad.
- The game's stability very much sucks in grand Bethesda tradition; it's rife with crashes and has a few gameplay bugs (very much in keeping the tradition set by Fallout 2, though.)
-The inventory management is very much a Bethesda staple; a great deal of your time picking up countless amounts of useless crap and juggling it to sell it to merchants who don't have enough money. Limited inventory space and no way to sort it only compounds the problem. An automatic application of the Barter skill helps though.
- Combat's clunky in the style of Oblivion, and VATS has some serious issues with cover. Queuing up a few shots and having the all hit the wall right next to you annoys.
- The extravagant gore gets old fast and slowing down with every execution doesn't help. You could at least turn it down in the old games.
- I haven't seen a great deal that money is good for in a way that directly helps you in combat, unlike the earlier games. You can scrounge up stuff that is better than what you can get in shops, usually. Ammo is handy, but you can normally buy all of it out of any store you encounter for tuppence.
-The followers are possessed with insipid AI: a tradition of the series. Bethesda got it right here, except that they occasionally block your exit from a building and run in the way of your weapons.
I doubt 3's worse than Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel, but it might be better than Tactics. Fallout 1 and 2 are still better than 3 in my opinion.
I love fallout 1 and 2 and was really hopeful for fallout 3. I was fine with the first person perspective and real time combat. As bethesda released more and more info and videos it came very very apparent that it had everything that made Oblivion horrible. Dungeon grinds were better, but a lot of them looked taken right out of oblivion still. The same terrible dialogue, voice acting, AI, and animations. On top of that the main story was once again shit-tastic. And to top it all of, the ending was fucking god awful. They even changed armor models and weapon models that looked really really cool from the first two, into something terrible. None of the characters left lasting impressions on you. The amount of bad choices is astounding, not to mention the hand holding and negligible choice and consequence.
Just to finish this off. The people who like fallout 1 and 2 are not nostalgic about it. They still play them to this very day. That is not nostalgia, that is simply good game design.
Just to finish this off. The people who like fallout 1 and 2 are not nostalgic about it. They still play them to this very day. That is not nostalgia, that is simply good game design.