I Hit It With My Axe: Episode Five: Blobs and Brain Switching

Void(null)

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Yay posting lag. Please excuse the double post.

lets not make this entirely useless:

Railroading:

Railroading is a term used to describe the imposition of a predefined set of resolutions onto the choices and conflicts that occur in play by a storyteller or game master. Essentially, it's what happens when a person tries to make themselves the sole author of the story.

The metaphor is obvious: just as a train can only operate on a preset rail structure that determines where it can go, and can only deviate from that path at special switching stations, a railroaded game can only function if contingent outcomes resolve in the anticipated way. A train that's forced off its rails crashes, which is essentially what happens to railroaded games forced out of their narrow plot.

Most games have some predefined narrative structure, and there's often an agreement among players that games will contain particular plot types or elements. Railroading only takes place when player actions are prevented from having any effect on the flow of events. It's possible that a game can be railroaded without its participants noticing, but unlikely, due to the fragility of plots and the ease with which they can be derailed. Any choices made by players that aren't compatible with the storyteller's plans either break the game or result in the storyteller crafting events in such a way to force a return to the intended outcome. Therefore, the term is virtually always used pejoratively, and the technique considered to be inherently pathological, as it represents a failure to be properly flexible and adaptive to players' input. Unlike Illusionism, there's really no way Railroading can be used responsibly.
 

MissLisa

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Void(null) said:
MissLisa said:
Void(null) said:
an atrocious DM with a convoluted plot that railroads at every turn... my 18 years of playing and DM'ing is null and I'm not a real D&D Player?
I SAID:
"
And "railroading"? At every turn they do whatever they want. The DM never says "don't go left, go right!" Sasha was about to kill the npc who gave the whole mission in the first place. Can you name one single thing they got "railroaded" into?
"

YOU SAID:
I have always DM'ed and open world where players can do anything, and go anywhere, with consequences for all of their actions both good and bad...

No dead space, no dead air, no hand holding, no telling my players "No, you can't do that."
You're not answering the question AT ALL.

So answer the question, null:

When has this GM ever told his players "No you can't do that?"

Do you have one single solitary shred of evidence that he isn't running the game EXACTLY the way you describe?
Umm.. yes. I happened to watch the Videos and the DM is always telling the players "You cant do X because of Y" where Y is equal to some convoluted "you must follow in a straight line" reason.
Name one single solitary instance. He sometimes says "it's not a full moon so you're not a werewolf" but describing what's going on isn't railroading.

"We should go now, because if we wait he will just have a plan against us"
"Do I ever plan against you?"
"yeah, you will be all like "Well thats not gunna work because..." *As she shakes her finger in the air*"
"You seem to think that I have a motive to make you fail, where as I dont like making you upset, you punch me when you get upset."
Um--so the players thinking that the DM is scheming against them is railroading? Plus--they're wrong. They try their plan, the dice decide, it doesn't work.

Again:

Point to an actual moment in the show where the DM tells them they cannot take any action their character would be able to take if the game events were really happening to their PCs.

Do it.
 

Void(null)

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I'm sorry but I can't paint for the blind.

I can go video by video pulling out instances with time index references, just as I did above, but it's a waste of my time because you obviously have no interest in having a discussion or listening to an opinion that is not the one you currently hold.

"The Sky is blue"

"Prove it"

"Look at the sky... its blue"

"Well prove it."

"Visible light is the part of the electromagnetic spectrum that our eyes can see. Light from the sun or a light bulb may look white, but it is actually a combination of many colors. We can see the different colors of the spectrum by splitting the light with a prism. The spectrum is also visible when you see a rainbow in the sky.

The colors blend continuously into one another. At one end of the spectrum are the reds and oranges. These gradually shade into yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet. The colors have different wavelengths, frequencies, and energies. Violet has the shortest wavelength in the visible spectrum. That means it has the highest frequency and energy. Red has the longest wavelength, and lowest frequency and energy.

The current wavelength and frequency is within the noted spectrum for the color we recognize as blue."

"Prove it."

"*Sighs*"
 

MissLisa

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Void(null) said:
I'm sorry but I can't paint for the blind.
So when asked to actually provide an example of a time when:

"the DM is always telling the players "You cant do X because of Y" where Y is equal to some convoluted "you must follow in a straight line" reason."

You actually can't do it.

Because there aren't any.

What you provided was a time-reference to a discussion that their -might be- railroading within the game followed by evidence completely to the contrary.

While everyone else is watching a show where all the girls pretty much endlessly debate what they're going to do while the DM sits off-screen and then end up doing whatever they decide to do, you're watching a whole other show.

Show us this thing:

"the DM is always telling the players "You cant do X because of Y" where Y is equal to some convoluted "you must follow in a straight line" reason."

Or admit you're wrong.
 

orcaccountant

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Nerds are threatened by sex. The permavirgin is real.
But instead of people posting: "This freaks me out, my lifestyle choices seemed normal within my peer group before I saw this and I am not so sure anymore."

You get stupid gross snark about the city of brass, strawmen about differing play styles and nitpicky-ness about camera angles and such. I doubt any of these guys lamenting the cheap shill of DND with porn stars are protesting women's rights and volunteering at women's shelters. It all pose. There are issues with sex work being exploitative, sure, but that has no place here. And the game looks fun. And comfy too, Its not bad. I have been in much much worse. There seems to be a lot of veiled hostility that is summed up: "These people are not sophisticated like us. And I am above them."

And it's starting to rub me the wrong way.
 

mazery

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A+ i think its because its meant to be more about the game and not the ditsy players

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Videos.aspx
 

MissLisa

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orcaccountant said:
Nerds are threatened by sex. The permavirgin is real.
But instead of people posting: "This freaks me out, my lifestyle choices seemed normal within my peer group before I saw this and I am not so sure anymore."

You get stupid gross snark about the city of brass, strawmen about differing play styles and nitpicky-ness about camera angles and such. I doubt any of these guys lamenting the cheap shill of DND with porn stars are protesting women's rights and volunteering at women's shelters. It all pose. There are issues with sex work being exploitative, sure, but that has no place here. And the game looks fun. And comfy too, Its not bad. I have been in much much worse. There seems to be a lot of veiled hostility that is summed up: "These people are not sophisticated like us. And I am above them."

And it's starting to rub me the wrong way.
I want to give that a big "amen"--but I also feel like, even taken on their own terms, a lot of these people are just not down with facts.

Maybe railroad-guy has some creepy psychological reason for seeing railroading where there is none, but I actually would like to see if there's any actual referent he can point to that sparked off his ire.

It's a curiousity thing, I suppose.
 

Void(null)

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orcaccountant said:
Nerds are threatened by sex. The permavirgin is real.
But instead of people posting: "This freaks me out, my lifestyle choices seemed normal within my peer group before I saw this and I am not so sure anymore."

You get stupid gross snark about the city of brass, strawmen about differing play styles and nitpicky-ness about camera angles and such.
Sorry but I am a member the the Kink Community of Chicago and I still think this show is shit.

If we are simply going to throw around Geek Stereotypes then I think I am done here, and shall simply exit stage left to find something that's actually worth the effort... like clipping my finger nails.
 

MissLisa

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Void(null) said:
If we are simply going to throw around Geek Stereotypes then I think I am done here, and shall simply exit stage left to find something that's actually worth the effort... like clipping my finger nails.
Like I said, I'm still waiting to see if you actually have anything to back up your "railroading" thesis.

If you want to say you're above it all and go groom, be my guest, otherwise:

Show us this thing:

"the DM is always telling the players "You cant do X because of Y" where Y is equal to some convoluted "you must follow in a straight line" reason."

Give a timecode if you like, or just quote it. I'm ready to believe you.
 

laughingcynic

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Kalezian said:
when there is nothing sexual potrayed. what because they are girls means that is sexual exploitation? because they are strippers? seriously, get down from your high horse, I can smell your shit from way down here.
Everything has a gimmick. And as the adage goes "Sex sells". And yes the only point for hiring and advertising that the show will star strippers and porn stars (nude, clothed or otherwise) is to pique interests because whether or not you are willing to admit it, people especially males) will be more likely to watch a show if they think there's a chance of being sexually stimulated. Read the description for the show. There are two selling points:

1. "It's D&D"
2. "With Strippers and Porn Stars"

Even if you choose not to interpret the show as being sold on sex, that was clearly the intention of the creator and how the escapist is marketing it. It's not sexist to say men enjoy looking at naked women. This hinted at potential sexual undertones and so it drew an initial big crowd.

Most likely though, as it's turning out that the show isn't pandering to the crowd looking for naked women only the very niche crowd of people who like DnD and also enjoy watching other people play will remain. This will be further cut down when, amongst the relatively small remaining audience, more leave because they decide they don't like the editing, or the DMing or the music or whatever else.

If you need some evidence toward this look at the number of comments per video. There's Perfect steady decline from episiode one until now. Starting at nearly 500 comments on the first video when the promise of sex and general interest the new show were fresh to here on episode five with a little less than 100 comments at time of posting. Interest is decreasing.

Sorry but this show IS sold on sex (and there's nothing wrong with that) and while some hardcore DnD players may watch this becuase they like watching games of DnD, the broad appeal the show was going for lies in the idea that the cast was composed entirely of attractive girls from the sex entertainment industry.
 

dtthelegend

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Holy shit. talk about A.d.d. the editing is HORRIBLE.
-snippet upon snippet just cut together.
-Music being blasted at random moments.

I think they need to take the guy who edits it all together and shoot him behind the chemical sheds.

it reminds me of a "Youtube poop" if you guys are familiar with those
where they remix random stuff but usually make one part repeat and louder
or slower and its crap by all means. like this show.
 

Bloodysoldier

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I counted about 80 cuts o.o who ever keeps saying they're doing better at the cut editing is as blind as a bat with out ears. Did he not say episode five would be better, because it feels like I am watching episode three or even one again.
 

chepenoyo

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Bloodysoldier said:
I counted about 80 cuts
Perhaps The Escapist will release a special version for you where they leave all the times someone says "Um" and "Er" in. And to make you extra happy I'm sure they'll leave in all the player to player debating between actions.
 

Bloodysoldier

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chepenoyo said:
Bloodysoldier said:
I counted about 80 cuts
Perhaps The Escapist will release a special version for you where they leave all the times someone says "Um" and "Er" in. And to make you extra happy I'm sure they'll leave in all the player to player debating between actions.
Well if you would look at the previous videos in the comment sections I have posted videos of a higher quality that "zak" needs to take a lesson in. I have not had my hands on video editing software for long, but I have made videos better than this and I can say I do a piss poor job at it, from my point of view. But hey blind can not lead the blind across the mind field. I'll be arguing the same points that everyone with two eyes can see, heck even a cyclops can see. But please would you rather have choppy editing, bad camera view, and people who do not seem to be enjoying the moment, and are stale as a ten year loaf of bread over other videos that put at least a small effort into the work they do, I have seen and met little kids who edit better than this guy. (not even in middle school kids I might add) and you want to defend his work? Defend his work when he puts effort into it not when its thrown together like a kid doing a last minute project.

Edit: Oh wow I did not notice your time joined. (Joined: 16 Apr 2010) I am terribly sorry "zak's blog fanyboy or fangirl(then again fanit would do wonders)", but for a awhile there I thought I was going to have an argument with someone capable of rational thought. But sadly I am in a argument with a sheep. Ode to joy how I relish in the fact that I will be quoted by more sheep. Who will bwah to the same merry toon. Oh no whatever shall I do(puts hand in a dramatic fashion against my head and leans against the table) now I will hear such horrid noises, woe is me. (sigh) Go back to the barn sheep boy/girl/it(mainly it) or does zak's blog employ such a sheepish defence to keep him from reading anymore comments(constructive or other wise) and running off to cry in a pillow. (sigh) I can not believe I did not notice that, I am terribly sorry but arguing with you has as much worth as arguing who will cut the turkey, I just do not care who cuts the turkey as longs as I have nicely cut turkey on my plate.
 

MissLisa

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Bloodysoldier said:
chepenoyo said:
Bloodysoldier said:
I counted about 80 cuts
Perhaps The Escapist will release a special version for you where they leave all the times someone says "Um" and "Er" in. And to make you extra happy I'm sure they'll leave in all the player to player debating between actions.
Well if you would look at the previous videos in the comment sections I have posted videos of a higher quality that "zak" needs to take a lesson in. I have not had my hands on video editing software for long, but I have made videos better than this and I can say I do a piss poor job at it, from my point of view. But hey blind can not lead the blind across the mind field. I'll be arguing the same points that everyone with two eyes can see, heck even a cyclops can see. But please would you rather have choppy editing, bad camera view, and people who do not seem to be enjoying the moment, and are stale as a ten year loaf of bread over other videos that put at least a small effort into the work they do, I have seen and met little kids who edit better than this guy. (not even in middle school kids I might add) and you want to defend his work? Defend his work when he puts effort into it not when its thrown together like a kid doing a last minute project.

Edit: Oh wow I did not notice your time joined. (Joined: 16 Apr 2010) I am terribly sorry "zak's blog fanyboy or fangirl(then again fanit would do wonders)", but for a awhile there I thought I was going to have an argument with someone capable of rational thought. But sadly I am in a argument with a sheep. Ode to joy how I relish in the fact that I will be quoted by more sheep. Who will bwah to the same merry toon. Oh no whatever shall I do(puts hand in a dramatic fashion against my head and leans against the table) now I will hear such horrid noises, woe is me. (sigh) Go back to the barn sheep boy/girl/it(mainly it) or does zak's blog employ such a sheepish defence to keep him from reading anymore comments(constructive or other wise) and running off to cry in a pillow. (sigh) I can not believe I did not notice that, I am terribly sorry but arguing with you has as much worth as arguing who will cut the turkey, I just do not care who cuts the turkey as longs as I have nicely cut turkey on my plate.
Ok, we get it, videos with lots of fast cuts scare you and make you sad and you're not very good at writing in complete sentences.

It's ok, we release you from your obligation to watch this show every week.
 

Lorenzo Alexander

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MissLisa said:
Bloodysoldier said:
chepenoyo said:
Bloodysoldier said:
I counted about 80 cuts
Perhaps The Escapist will release a special version for you where they leave all the times someone says "Um" and "Er" in. And to make you extra happy I'm sure they'll leave in all the player to player debating between actions.
Well if you would look at the previous videos in the comment sections I have posted videos of a higher quality that "zak" needs to take a lesson in. I have not had my hands on video editing software for long, but I have made videos better than this and I can say I do a piss poor job at it, from my point of view. But hey blind can not lead the blind across the mind field. I'll be arguing the same points that everyone with two eyes can see, heck even a cyclops can see. But please would you rather have choppy editing, bad camera view, and people who do not seem to be enjoying the moment, and are stale as a ten year loaf of bread over other videos that put at least a small effort into the work they do, I have seen and met little kids who edit better than this guy. (not even in middle school kids I might add) and you want to defend his work? Defend his work when he puts effort into it not when its thrown together like a kid doing a last minute project.

Edit: Oh wow I did not notice your time joined. (Joined: 16 Apr 2010) I am terribly sorry "zak's blog fanyboy or fangirl(then again fanit would do wonders)", but for a awhile there I thought I was going to have an argument with someone capable of rational thought. But sadly I am in a argument with a sheep. Ode to joy how I relish in the fact that I will be quoted by more sheep. Who will bwah to the same merry toon. Oh no whatever shall I do(puts hand in a dramatic fashion against my head and leans against the table) now I will hear such horrid noises, woe is me. (sigh) Go back to the barn sheep boy/girl/it(mainly it) or does zak's blog employ such a sheepish defence to keep him from reading anymore comments(constructive or other wise) and running off to cry in a pillow. (sigh) I can not believe I did not notice that, I am terribly sorry but arguing with you has as much worth as arguing who will cut the turkey, I just do not care who cuts the turkey as longs as I have nicely cut turkey on my plate.
Ok, we get it, videos with lots of fast cuts scare you and make you sad and you're not very good at writing in complete sentences.

It's ok, we release you from your obligation to watch this show every week.
I want less cuts. I think it's more interesting when you hear entire conversations instead of word snippets but i still think there needs to be SOME cuts i'm not gonna sit here and watch a D&D match for an hour+. There are just too many cuts into one-liners and snippets of conversations it's like watching a good movie and the DVD player skips all the good parts and jumps around in and out of random convos.

This show would be much better with a lot less cuts and i could do without the music but that's just nitpicking cuz it doesn't really have a major effect on me. But the cuts do and i think the cuts got semi-better this episode which is why a bunch of ppl(including me) say it's the best episode.

Looking forward to episode 6 assuming there's more D&D and less editing.
 

Bloodysoldier

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Lorenzo Alexander said:
I want less cuts. I think it's more interesting when you hear entire conversations instead of word snippets but i still think there needs to be SOME cuts i'm not gonna sit here and watch a D&D match for an hour+. There are just too many cuts into one-liners and snippets of conversations it's like watching a good movie and the DVD player skips all the good parts and jumps around in and out of random convos.

This show would be much better with a lot less cuts and i could do without the music but that's just nitpicking cuz it doesn't really have a major effect on me. But the cuts do and i think the cuts got semi-better this episode which is why a bunch of ppl(including me) say it's the best episode.
100% agree with you; now the sheep need to take a lesson from you.

edit:
 

Tropico1

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This is actually getting better IMO. Like, I'm actually (just about) able to follow what's going on in the game now. Even though I still have no clue why they are where they are or what they're supposed to be accomplishing there. Still, much more interesting now.

In the interest of seeing this continue to improve I submit the following suggestions:

- Get rid of the guys in the background. They are distracting, they drag down the energy of the video, and just it feels really awkward when they slip into the show. Sort of like when the boom mike dips into the camera view in a bad movie.

- Consider replacing Sasha. Don't get me wrong, yes she is beautiful and charismatic and a draw, but, wow, her boredom and disconnectedness is SO strong that it actually drags down the video all by itself. I swear sometimes her body language looks like she's actually physically suffering from being there. Get some who's more interested, more lively, like Mohawk girl (definitely keep Mohawk girl).

- SLOW DOWN the editing. Yes, this is a real complaint that there is, not just strawman fuel for flamewars. Slow it down. Show the dice rolls. Show what *the monsters* do in combat. Explain everything that's happening just a LITTLE bit more. Just a little bit.

- Improve the lighting - get some bright halogen bulbs so everybody's skin doesn't look all sallow and gaunt.

You get these few things down, I'm sure the videos will improve by a long shot. I'll keep watching for now anyway. This has actually grown on me.


Oh, also, I think I speak for a few people when I say, Joethelawyer? Go back to ENWorld please. People should be free to express their opinion without you tearing them a new one through ridiculously degrading and insulting strawmen. You thought you were doing something all clever and witty blasting everyone like that? You should be ashamed as well as banned for that post.
 

chepenoyo

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Comparing Axe to the video BloodySoldier posted, that one gets coherence from having the DM dominate the limelight. We get a paragraph of narration from the DM. Then a short response from the player. Then a video repeating what was just said with tongue-in-cheek-bad special effects. It's more coherent because everything happens twice and one player (the DM) is dominating the narration.

Meanwhile, in Axe, the players get most of the screen time. They're tossing out ideas and commenting on each others' plans. You might even think they're engaged in the game. They're talking naturally, and over each other when they get excited. This MIGHT just make it trickier to edit.

I'll also take the undiluted game over the deliberatly cheesey replays showing what somebody just said. The girl SAYING she hits the skeleton then SHOWING she hits the skeleton may be coherent, but it drags because we're experiencing everything twice. Axe just gets on with the game.
 

MissLisa

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Tropico1 said:
- Consider replacing Sasha. Don't get me wrong, yes she is beautiful and charismatic and a draw, but, wow, her boredom and disconnectedness is SO strong that it actually drags down the video all by itself.
I think Sasha's really funny. But your wish will obviously come true because like it says in the credits, she's a guest-star. The show is supposed to have lots of different guest stars during the year.