I just figured it out.

[Ninmecu]

I just figured out where the love for the xbone is coming from. The same field of strange glitter berries that Apple fan(boy(s)/girl(s)) come from, where a willful suspension of disbelief at a higher price tag with terrible business practices and anti-consumer friendliness is held up as a champion of existence while a more open and customizable option is bastardized and demonized. Only in this instance some(read many) of us are seeing the Xbone for what it truly is instead of being deterred by "oooooh shiny". Call me paranoid, but the Xbone has had an Orwellian feel too it from the get go. Always online DRM(Which I believed would be fine for D3 given the whole "RMAH" Oh boy does present me ever laugh at past me for that one.), a nice HD camera that's always watching you while you play. (And I'll admit, I don't always keep my playtime strictly PG, I'm sure that poor kinect does not want to see my, umm, waving around as I try and hack n slash, though from what I hear the NSA might enjoy the view.) The fact that you don't "own" anything except that 499$ paperweight, or out here in Canada that 563,87$ paperweight. Coupled with the whole unfriendly nature of the Execs throwing words like "If you're backwards compatible, you're really thinking backwards!" Too bad about new adopters who play Ass Cree 4 or Halo 5: We've got cloaks now, and want to know "What happened before now? Who's this Desmond freak? Who's Master Chief and why do I care?" Or the infamous "Deal With It" attitude that got one guy fired. Or the most recent "Don't have internet, buy an xbox 360(You worthless mongrel plebs!). Really, when I first heard the restrictions on the Xbone, I couldn't believe there were people who would honestly back a company that makes them eat shit and tell them to smile about it. I couldn't believe people would comply, let alone defend it. To quote an overly used meme, "This is why we can't have nice things."


As an aside, are you like me? I can't wait for the Holiday Season when Mommy and Daddy buy little Tim Tim a nice Xbox One because little Tim got good grades all year and that's what he wants most. Then they find out it has to be always connected to the internet or little Tim Tim's games become locked out and useless. Oooooh that's going to be glorious if Microsoft doesn't change their tunes. It's going to be the RRoD all over again. And don't try and say "Consumer beware", we have laws to protect consumers from unlawful business practices and unless it's written in big bold letters under Xbox ONE that XBOX ONE IS ALWAYS ONLINE! I assure you Mr and Mrs Tim Tim won't know the difference. The best(read worst) part of that is when it happens to the kind of family I was raised in. We got our first N64 3 years after it's release to the public and my mom and step father saved for months to get it, we used that thing for years (even post gamecube). If it had this kind of restrictive shit(which I'm told comes with benefits, though the naysayers on it being too restrictive have failed to tell me what I benefit from with those things in my way) we would've had to return it on the spot and ruined our Christmas.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I think the XB1 supporters are fantastic proof that some people will swallow absolutely anything.

 

[tippy2k2]

Xbox One supports are just like everyone else; they have weighed the pros and cons of the system and have determined that the pros outweigh the cons and they will buy the system. I can't stand when people use the crutch argument of "They're just sheeple!" for everyone has different reasons for why they want what they want. It's the same argument I hear about sport games and modern military shooters; for some reason, because I buy Call of Duty and Madden each year, I am a sheeple who can't think for myself.

I for one will never purchase a Xbox One but if User X thinks that their rights as a consumer are less important than the games they can get for the Xbox One, who am I to tell them that they're wrong?

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

Xbox One supports are just like everyone else; they have weighed the pros and cons of the system and have determined that the pros outweigh the cons and they will buy the system. I can't stand when people use the crutch argument of "They're just sheeple!" for everyone has different reasons for why they want what they want. It's the same argument I hear about sport games and modern military shooters; for some reason, because I buy Call of Duty and Madden each year, I am a sheeple who can't think for myself.

I for one will never purchase a Xbox One but if User X thinks that their rights as a consumer are less important than the games they can get for the Xbox One, who am I to tell them that they're wrong?

I half agree. To say the only people buying don't know what they're getting into is dumb. There are some people who honestly don't give a shit about the 24 connect and want a console that installs all games and operates with kinect.

But I do agree with OP that I think this Christmas will be interesting. I would expect the X-Box One to make the consumer reports on a lot of local news stations about "which is better for my child" and all that shit. But I'm fully expecting a shit storm from buyers who didn't know what they were stepping in with console and find out the hard way that they don't have the right network for the damn thing to work. I'd like to see some people take Microsoft to court about the legality of this bullshit. That'll be fun to watch

 

[Ninmecu]

if User X thinks that their rights as a consumer are less important than the games they can get for the Xbox One, who am I to tell them that they're wrong?

Here's the part where things get on my nerves though. Yes, User X User Y and User Z can buy the Xbone, Ps4 and WiiU respectively and it shouldn't negatively affect me at all.(Currently, it won't) BUT, future me see's it as a possible problem(Granted one of many, but hear me out.) If the Xbone does well despite the shortcomings they're throwing on it that purely and unequivocally negatively impact the Consumer/Costumer/Whatever/Whoever you want to call them and it gains popularity, what's to stop EVERYONE from doing it? The xbone sets a dangerous precedent. F2P MMO's have a similar trend, buy an item from the shop once with real money? You're more likely to do it twice, three times, four time, etc. The initial hurdle is always the most difficult to ascend. The future scares me if the xbone gains Steam.(pardon my pun)

Xbox One supports are just like everyone else; they have weighed the pros and cons of the system and have determined that the pros outweigh the cons and they will buy the system.

I know I can't say this without sounding horrible, but I can't understand how pros can possibly outweigh the cons on what's considered a Luxury Item, something that adds to your life but isn't a necessary part of it. You wouldn't buy a Lamborghini and "Live with" the drawbacks like having to call the manufaturer every day to ascertain that yes, you still own their car. You wouldn't be paying a rather large sum of money to simply "rent" their vehicle for X number of unknown years(Assuming they don't release a firmware update down the road to remove the Always Online but even at that they will inevitably stop the function of said patch being downloadable/useable at some point and some poor sap will miss out on it down the line. It's inevitable that someone will suffer because of the stupidity of that form of DRM.)Granted, it's a grandiose difference between an Xbone and a Lamborghini, but at the end of the day you shouldn't have to "live with" a few drawbacks on a luxury item like one "lives with" the drawbacks on other household items.

I can't stand when people use the crutch argument of "They're just sheeple!" for everyone has different reasons for why they want what they want.

To my knowledge, I haven't used the strawman sheeple argument yet, if I have, it wasn't intentional. I just honestly can't understand how, as I've iterated, a luxury item should have cons beyond it's cost. It baffles me that people will honestly accept that.

It's the same argument I hear about sport games and modern military shooters; for some reason, because I buy Call of Duty and Madden each year, I am a sheeple who can't think for myself.

If you like those games, be my guest. I've never had a taste for sports games beyond racing games and at that, my favorite is the Mario Kart series along with the Hot Pursuit(s) from Need for Speed. I'm guilty of doing the same with the Legend of Zelda games, despite everyones criticisms about it "Always being the same" and blah blah fucking blah. I find them imaginative in their execution, if a bit overdone/run of the mill in their design at times. Personally, I've only played army of two and Gears of War 2 as far as modern military shooters go, call me crazy but I think the insanity of Time Splitters 2's multiplayer/instant respawning is the more entertaining option, if a bit more spastic.

I for one will never purchase a Xbox One

I'm taking it one step further and never touching the thing, never allowing it in my apartment, never looking at it whilst it's demo'd at the local Wal-Mart. I refuse to touch something so anti consumer, it makes me think very nasty thoughts about what my future children's gaming future will be like and I feel like I'd be part of the problem if I enable it.

 

[Simple Bluff]

OP: TL;DR. You only need read the first sentence to get the jist anyway. I don't like the console either, but some people just don't have a problem with it or just don't see it as an issue, and they've made up their mind. Nothing wrong with that or anything. The only thing you can really do is try to inform anyone who may not be following the news, and let them decide for themselves whether it matters. That's all I did when my mother asked for my opinion today on which console to get for my brothers.

I'd like to see some people take Microsoft to court about the legality of this bullshit. That'll be fun to watch

Nothing would happen. I don't think there are actually any legal issues with the X1. The semi - always online thing is legal, and the Kinect CAN be turned off by unplugging it so that wouldn't be an issue either. Unless you were referring to something else?

 

[Ninmecu]

OP: TL;DR. You only need read the first sentence to get the jist anyway. I don't like the console either, but some people just don't have a problem with it or just don't see it as an issue, and they've made up their mind. Nothing wrong with that or anything. The only thing you can really do is try to inform anyone who may not be following the news, and let them decide for themselves whether it matters. That's all I did when my mother asked for my opinion today on which console to get for my brothers.

I'd like to see some people take Microsoft to court about the legality of this bullshit. That'll be fun to watch

Nothing would happen. I don't think there are actually any legal issues with the X1. The semi - always online thing is legal, and the Kinect CAN be turned off by unplugging it so that wouldn't be an issue either. Unless you were referring to something else?

The inevitable and undeniable server shutdown on Microsoft's end, possible EMP terrorism(let's be honest that's a huge stretch but not impossible in this day and age.) the fact that they're re-writing what "ownership" means that kind of thing leads me to wonder about the overall legality of the situation. Granted M$ wouldn't have gone forward this far ahead if their Corporate Lawyers didn't do their full Due Diligence on the thing, but still.

 

[tippy2k2]

I'm going to spoiler the hell out of this just so that we don't take up half the page with quotes

Spoiler: Quoted Text

Here's the part where things get on my nerves though. Yes, User X User Y and User Z can buy the Xbone, Ps4 and WiiU respectively and it shouldn't negatively affect me at all.(Currently, it won't) BUT, future me see's it as a possible problem(Granted one of many, but hear me out.) If the Xbone does well despite the shortcomings they're throwing on it that purely and unequivocally negatively impact the Consumer/Costumer/Whatever/Whoever you want to call them and it gains popularity, what's to stop EVERYONE from doing it? The xbone sets a dangerous precedent. F2P MMO's have a similar trend, buy an item from the shop once with real money? You're more likely to do it twice, three times, four time, etc. The initial hurdle is always the most difficult to ascend. The future scares me if the xbone gains Steam.(pardon my pun)

I 100% agree with this and I have campaigned on Facebook for the last week or so trying to convince anyone who would listen to my madman-like ramblings (my Facebook thing is in my Escapist profile if you want to verify ).

HOWEVER, once given the facts, if they have decided to purchase the Xbox One anyways, I can't fault them for it (well I can but I'm not going to). Their priorities, however skewed and crooked I believe them to be, is still a choice they are allowed to make.

Spoiler: Quoted text

I know I can't say this without sounding horrible, but I can't understand how pros can possibly outweigh the cons on what's considered a Luxury Item, something that adds to your life but isn't a necessary part of it. You wouldn't buy a Lamborghini and "Live with" the drawbacks like having to call the manufaturer every day to ascertain that yes, you still own their car. You wouldn't be paying a rather large sum of money to simply "rent" their vehicle for X number of unknown years(Assuming they don't release a firmware update down the road to remove the Always Online but even at that they will inevitably stop the function of said patch being downloadable/useable at some point and some poor sap will miss out on it down the line. It's inevitable that someone will suffer because of the stupidity of that form of DRM.)Granted, it's a grandiose difference between an Xbone and a Lamborghini, but at the end of the day you shouldn't have to "live with" a few drawbacks on a luxury item like one "lives with" the drawbacks on other household items.

Again, I agree but not everyone has the same priorities. I can not fathom why someone would be willing to give up so much just to play Halo but if they choose to do so, I'm not going to stand in their way. I will explain to them why I think they're acting foolish and shortsighted but it's their choice.

Spoiler: Quoted Text

To my knowledge, I haven't used the strawman sheeple argument yet, if I have, it wasn't intentional. I just honestly can't understand how, as I've iterated, a luxury item should have cons beyond it's cost. It baffles me that people will honestly accept that.

I assumed when you were going with the "Fanboys" argument that you were calling people sheeples (since fanboys are the ones who will not listen to reason and just go with the heard). If I mis-interpreted, that's my bad.

Spoiler: Quoted Text

I'm taking it one step further and never touching the thing, never allowing it in my apartment, never looking at it whilst it's demo'd at the local Wal-Mart. I refuse to touch something so anti consumer, it makes me think very nasty thoughts about what my future children's gaming future will be like and I feel like I'd be part of the problem if I enable it.

Amen to that!

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

I'd like to see some people take Microsoft to court about the legality of this bullshit. That'll be fun to watch

Nothing would happen. I don't think there are actually any legal issues with the X1. The semi - always online thing is legal, and the Kinect CAN be turned off by unplugging it so that wouldn't be an issue either. Unless you were referring to something else?

I'm mostly talking about the 24 hour connection thing (I don't get why people are still spreading rumors about the kinect). I could just see someone buying the XB1 and game and the XB1 refusing to play said game and then someone would get up in arms about how the console can refuse them. Maybe they won't win, but it would be a fun controversy to give Microsoft some bad attention on places other than video game websites

 

[Simple Bluff]

The inevitable and undeniable server shutdown on Microsoft's end,

Personally, I don't actually think this'll happen. But even so, it wouldn't be illegal either, I don't think malfunctioning hardware is against the law. And even then, the servers WILL be restored to functionality eventually. You could shoot for some kinda reimbursement for a faulty product, probobly.

possible EMP terrorism...

I doubt this could be argued in court. "People might exploit it" could apply to nearly everything.

the fact that they're re-writing what "ownership" means that kind of thing leads me to wonder about the overall legality of the situation.

I thought about this as well, but I don't think this is against the law. There's a lot of discrepancies between what it is to own hardware, and what it is to own software. If you bought and paid for the disc, the only thing that rightfully belongs to you is the disc, NOT the software on it. Do you remember that story a while ago, about the guy who hacked his PS3 to run Linux and got arrested for it even though it wasn't hurting anybody? Yeah, this is the reason that happened. He owned the PS3, but he didn't technically have the right to alter the software, because he didn't own it. I'm not saying I agree with it, that's just the way of things.

And besides, MC has made it very clear that you are purchasing "licenses" to play the games, NOT the games themselves. If they tell us we can't sell our games, or buy anyone else's, it's their right.

Please bear in mind I'm not a lawyer, or otherwise associated with the legal system in any way. All of what I've written are just educated guesses.

 

[Ninmecu]

Snip since I imagine it's going to be one, maybe two posts above me.

I'm what's known as a pragmatic A-moral thinker. I do what needs to be done for the betterment of individuals or myself regardless of the cost in a moral sense. I'm an ultimate realist who has no issues being a complete bell-end for the betterment of myself, others or the species as a whole. That being said, I'm a fan of Niccolo Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Napoleon and the writer Robert Greene. I'm the man people come to when they want to hear the honest no holds barred truth, I'm known as a corrosive personality when the gloves come off. My family members know to only come to me for personal advice if they want the best and closest to unbiased opinion possible on the situation. All of that being said, I agree that we can't realistically fault them for the stupidity of their descision making, (in my eyes at least it's a stupid move, not trying to put words in your mouth) and that ultimately the only weapon we have is knowledge to present to them in a concise and not underhanded nor heavy handed manner(To quote Napoleon you must hide your Iron Hand inside of a Velvet Glove). But it doesn't change the fact that if the Xbone does well, the future of gaming as a whole could very well suffer for it. Gaming being the main reason for my having both a conscience and a sense of empathy is naturally a part of my life I feel very strongly about.

As for the Fanboy(s) Fangirl(s) comment-it wasn't in a sheeple sense nor really in a generalizational sense in the conventional use of the word. I was using it to depict the kinds of people who will blindly follow the established order's, well, orders without question and without fail. The kinds of people who buy the Ipad 2 despite it being a weaker variant of the Ipad at launch(Correct me if I'm wrong on this.) with no real tangible benefits. The kinds of people who just blindly go forward with the things they know and are comfortable with..

And I could go on from here but I realized I'll just be rehashing my point. So instead, think about this. Humans are the strangest creatures in our known universe. We have the capacity to actively change our habits, to think on higher levels, to approach new situations with past experiences and draw parallels to determine possible outcomes before they present themselves, and yet, few men/women ever achieve that. Ever acknowledge it, ever move forward with the fact that we can change, we can demand change, we can become different people with different habits. But we choose not to. A deer cannot change it's habits of existence, it has lived for thousands of years and has largely survived on instinct to pass it on to it's children's children's children, but we can and continue to hunt them because of that inability to change their habits, ways of thinking. It just annoys me to no end when we flagrantly disregard our ability to think for ourselves, to use our empathetic skills to wonder "How does this affect others as well as myself and in the long run, is it really a positive or a negative for them as well as me." But I know at the end of the day, that's just a pipe dream.

Anyway, back on topic.

I think the XB1 supporters are fantastic proof that some people will swallow absolutely anything.

Your avatar is strangely appropriate for that statement. I can see him now...

"Good news everyone! I've invented a gaming device that requires an internet connection once every 24 hours without fail, it comes with this really nice HD camera that watches you while you play your game and can even record your heart rate! Naturally with this device we'll revolutionize the way you interact with your games on a whole new level. The drawbacks don't exist of course, if you want an offline experience you can play with my old toy over there *Points to the corner where a dusty Xbox 360 resides* I'm sure that old piece of technology will still have *snicker* support *barely concealed laughter* for a while after this one is on the market *Howling with evil laughter*"

...Yeah, sometimes I have far too much time on my hands.

The inevitable and undeniable server shutdown on Microsoft's end,

Personally, I don't actually think this'll happen. But even so, it wouldn't be illegal either, I don't think malfunctioning hardware is against the law. And even then, the servers WILL be restored to functionality eventually. You could shoot for some kinda reimbursement for a faulty product, probably.

Eh, I find it hard to accept that Microsoft is going to want to pay for the servers to stay live 10-15 years down the line when the Xbox -360 comes along.

possible EMP terrorism...

I doubt this could be argued in court. "People might exploit it" could apply to nearly everything.

I agree, but I'd also like to point out the inevitable Day One fiasco when MS doesn't have the servers properly tested for that much strain so quickly and so suddenly..Followed by the inevitable Anonymous server takedowns that will likely happen...like, a lot.

the fact that they're re-writing what "ownership" means that kind of thing leads me to wonder about the overall legality of the situation.

I thought about this as well, but I don't think this is against the law. There's a lot of discrepancies between what it is to own hardware, and what it is to own software. If you bought and paid for the disc, the only thing that rightfully belongs to you is the disc, NOT the software on it. Do you remember that story a while ago, about the guy who hacked his PS3 to run Linux and got arrested for it even though it wasn't hurting anybody? Yeah, this is the reason that happened. He owned the PS3, but he didn't technically have the right to alter the software, because he didn't own it. I'm not saying I agree with it, that's just the way of things.[/quote]

I still can't believe they tried to hold him responsible. It was originally being toted as a "Do what you want with it homebrewers" then that functionality was taken away because they didn't like how people were using their system...derp?

And besides, MC has made it very clear that you are purchasing "licenses" to play the games, NOT the games themselves. If they tell us we can't sell our games, or buy anyone else's, it's their right.

At the end of the day, we're purchasing a liscence at the same price we purchase a full hard copy game that we can do with as we please. Not a man woman or child on this earth is going to tell me I can't have a rom version of Ocarina of Time for the n64 when I have a physical copy of the game sitting jut 5 feet away from me. But if I sold that copy, then I would also have to remove the Rom. I don't see how the software ownership bs can apply to something like this. I've always toted that perfect laws will never exist because of the discrepancies and little things like this that separate everything.

Please bear in mind I'm not a lawyer, or otherwise associated with the legal system in any way. All of what I've written are just educated guesses.

To quote that lawyer on South Park, "You can always sue someone." Terrible place to quote from but considering what I've heard can go on down south(Again, I'm Canadian) it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see something like the Xbone getting slammed and slammed hard.