The first book of ASOIAF that I have has "SF novel of the year" on the cover.Smashingpass said:
I Just Realized The Elder Scrolls can be considered Sci-Fi
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Well, teeeechnically we have the Dwarven creations that don't necessarily run on magic, so ... it's more Steampunk-ish ... and you can certainly twist it to turn it into Sci-Fi, but ... personally, I'd stick with the general Fantasy, and nowhere near actual Science, thus Sci-Fi. So ... nope.
Depending on your view on D/Aedra, that whole "Mundus/Nirn is just a dream" thingy may actually be the case in the Elder Scrolls lore, btw.Th3Ch33s3Cak3 said:
I don't think that Alternate History has to be categorized as either sci-fi or fantasy, it's a separate thing.ellers07 said:
In fact, there are many genres of speculative fiction that don't fit into either of these two.
For example, what about the zombie genre? They can be explained as a virus, but also as explicitly supernatural, with no effect to the plot.
Also, the superhero genre. Vaguely scientific, except when not even that.
Huh.
I thought I was going to read an interesting post with some major deconstruction of the elder-scrolls universe.
Instead I got halfbaked logic.
I am sad.
No, the Elder Scrolls is not Sci-Fi. Peter F Hamilton is Sci-Fi. Asimov is sci-fi. The Elderscrolls is not.
I thought I was going to read an interesting post with some major deconstruction of the elder-scrolls universe.
Instead I got halfbaked logic.
I am sad.
No, the Elder Scrolls is not Sci-Fi. Peter F Hamilton is Sci-Fi. Asimov is sci-fi. The Elderscrolls is not.
Oh come on guys, OP has a point here. The only issue in logic that I see is that science fiction is based around BLATANT science thrown in a mixed for the author's benefit. Fantasy doesn't jump that much.
yes, as has been said they are very similar genres. they both are founded on the concept of introducing fantastical elements to reality and logically creating a world around how that would effect it, the core difference is that sci-fi tends to take a small few theoretical ideas while fantasy takes a shit ton of complete fabrications.
the difference is simply scale. genres exist for shorthand, not strict definition. it wouldnt be any kind of art if that were the case.
the difference is simply scale. genres exist for shorthand, not strict definition. it wouldnt be any kind of art if that were the case.
I still see it as fantasy, I mean it seems like kind of a stretch to call the Elder Scrolls sci-fi, but to each his own. Personally I would love to see a game like Elder-Scrolls set in the future (or space), you could create your own character and discover other planets and fly space ships, I think it would be successful if done right.
I've always believed it to be part sci-fi. I explain why to my dad so I can get him to try playing Skyrim, but he's set in his ways. Won't play anything other than Halo.
But think about it. Read the in-world books!
In-world evolutionary theories regarding the origins of the mer and man races, planet and moon orbit cycles, archaeology, palaeontology and even more.
In a way, it's more SF than Star Wars. In the original movies they don't explain the force and don't talk about HALF of the workings of the solar systems and universes, languages and species as much as TES games do.
It's part of the exploration aspect of these games. In exploring the world, you encounter people that want to know more about it. People who are basically scientists. Some use real-world science, others use a tweaked version to explain away the magical side of things or to represent that some of these people may be wrong or some facts are lost over time. Science and fact is very malleable. Even in real-life.
I kept one of every book I could find in Oblivion and Skyrim. After reading a good few of them it was pretty obvious I was playing a fantasy that had a good amount of sci-fi elements to it.
If you can get a sci-fi horror and sci-fi comedy, you can sure as hell have a "sci-fi fantasy".
But think about it. Read the in-world books!
In-world evolutionary theories regarding the origins of the mer and man races, planet and moon orbit cycles, archaeology, palaeontology and even more.
In a way, it's more SF than Star Wars. In the original movies they don't explain the force and don't talk about HALF of the workings of the solar systems and universes, languages and species as much as TES games do.
It's part of the exploration aspect of these games. In exploring the world, you encounter people that want to know more about it. People who are basically scientists. Some use real-world science, others use a tweaked version to explain away the magical side of things or to represent that some of these people may be wrong or some facts are lost over time. Science and fact is very malleable. Even in real-life.
I kept one of every book I could find in Oblivion and Skyrim. After reading a good few of them it was pretty obvious I was playing a fantasy that had a good amount of sci-fi elements to it.
If you can get a sci-fi horror and sci-fi comedy, you can sure as hell have a "sci-fi fantasy".
No it's not, the two are essentially different shades of the same genre. As writers associated with both have pointed out "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"[footnote]Arthur C. Clarke[/footnote] and "any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology"[footnote]Larry Nivens[/footnote] so really they're only separated by different story conventions associated with each, and even those conventions can be easily mixed together such as with Star Wars where you have swords and sorcery (the Jedi) as well as space battles, which is why it's often classified as 'Science Fantasy'.Mr.PlanetEater said:
The blurry line between Sci-fi and Fantasy tends to wane more you think about it.
But in terms that most humans can understand, there are literary boundaries for each category visually and story wise.
But you're technically correct yes. The two genres tend to blur the more you delve into the concept.
Example. World of Warcraft. On the surface as cartoonily fantasy as you can get. Dive into the lore and deeper aspects of it, suddenly space travel, interstellar wars and cosmic beings. It's probably the most simplistic example I can think of. But most stories that start with either fantasy or sci-fi, and want to go the long mile will eventually step on each others toes.
But in terms that most humans can understand, there are literary boundaries for each category visually and story wise.
But you're technically correct yes. The two genres tend to blur the more you delve into the concept.
Example. World of Warcraft. On the surface as cartoonily fantasy as you can get. Dive into the lore and deeper aspects of it, suddenly space travel, interstellar wars and cosmic beings. It's probably the most simplistic example I can think of. But most stories that start with either fantasy or sci-fi, and want to go the long mile will eventually step on each others toes.
It all depends on whether Magic or Science is the driving factor behind a world's development. And the world of the Elder Scrolls is mostly built on Magic. Ergo, it's not Sci-Fi, it's Fantasy.
Neither does the worlds of Song of Fire and Ice, LotR, Dragon Age, Witchcer and damn near ever other fantasy game. You could interpret that our Earth is a part of the same universe in every single one of those worlds, but that doesn't make it sci-fi. Sci-fi follows a fairly consistent set of scientific rules that is more or less plausible and is focused on technology, whereas fantasy shows a notable lack of technological development and is often less consistent in terms of the magic that is present.
Congratulations, you have discovered that science fiction and fantasy are essentially the same genera with different explanations for the unexplainable stuff that happens. The only real difference are in the particular styles that are usually used to tell the story. Its easy to find many stories that muddle the two.
The difference is far from clear cut, but otherwise yes. Unless you consider fantasy to be a sub-genre of sci-fi(which may be the more accurate analysis than a completely separate genre) there's no way TES is sci-fi. It's very much fantasy, hard-core even.Mr.PlanetEater said:
Science Fiction is differant from fantasy. Science Fiction is based around specific potentially viable concepts which are then used in the context of a story that explains them. This is why in science fiction you will get these long break away explanations about how gravity is generated for space ships or whatever, and then in the course of a fight or whatever the way those concepts work are the key to the resolution. Science Fiction doesn't have to be set out in space or whatever, but the nature of the beast is such where this is usually the case.D-Class 198482 said:
Fantasy on the other hand doesn't really worry about how or why things work in any real sense, they just do, while they might explain how contexts interrelate it usually comes down to fantastic assumpsions, or "because it does work, and it's cool!". A principle might be mentioned in brief but is rarely the point of the story. Fsntasy can be set anywhere pretty much, though stereotypically it's fantasy where you rarely go beyond explanations like "magic is an energy field that can be tapped by anyone with the right knowlege or inherant potential" or "the gods cause this to happen" at the core, even if things can get internally more complicated from that point onward.
Dealing with space or other planets are kind of irrelevent. Star Wars for example is a work of pure fantasy, there really isn't much logic in the central premise as to why things explode in space (besides it looking cool), how blasters function, what kinds of power sources and their principles are in use, how they generate atmosphere and gravity in their space ships, etc... we just accept that scientists made all of these things work as they do. People have retroactively come up for reasons outside of the canon in many cases, but for the most part none of that really matters to the storyline and Han Solo never sits here and says "okay, here is how our lightspeed drive works" and has that figures into the story. this is why science fiction is a aquired taste.
A counterpoint to this would be say Pier's Anthony's "Bio Of A Space Tyrant" series where you might wind up getting a lecture on hypothetical engineering and gravimetric principles within this universe, by way of explaining why most ships are shaped like Bubbles. Then later as the story progresses these physics come to the forefront of what happens when a certain refugee ship is attacked by pirates, and the obtuse way space combat and boarding takes place, with the fight scenes and action telling an entertaining story, but ultimatly serving to illustrarte a concept "in action" and what it might "look" like other than to simply entertain.
Probably not the best articulated way of explaining it, but that's the differance between sci-fi and fantasy in a nutshell.
There we have it! Every branch of fiction will now be combined in the genre fiction category! That should make it a little easier for book stores too. Fantasy? Horror? Mystery? Historical? It's all in Genre Fiction, alphabetical by author. Actually... that would be awful. Let's not do that.j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
(Good movie choices as well. Can we put Willow in there too? We're getting a little late 80's, I know, but still...)
What if the whole magic part of Elder Scrolls gets an overhaul and a (pseudo) scientific reasoning behind it.
Much like Alchemy from Fullmetal Alchemist.
If Bethesda sat down and wrote fundamental rules and laws on which the magic operates, would it not be considered science?
And thus step into the realm of science fiction.
Much like Alchemy from Fullmetal Alchemist.
If Bethesda sat down and wrote fundamental rules and laws on which the magic operates, would it not be considered science?
And thus step into the realm of science fiction.