I like Midichlorians

[Galletea]

I like midichlorians... with my coffee...oh you're being serious. Ok...

There's nothing wrong with the idea of Midichlorians, the issue was that they just dropped it in there with no real reason for it. They use it as a substance that could theoretically be measured, but then never mention it again. Or produce a force measuring device or whatever. Or really explain what they are or where they come from. It was just unnecessary.

 

[bug_of_war]

To me star wars is just full of maguffins. The force was a maguffin. Mediclorians was a magiffin to explain a previous maguffin.

I've never seen star wars as something to be overthought or taken too seriously. Sure ill argue with my mates over who would win in a fight between X and Y, and how the Rebels were actually dicks ala 'Clerks'. But I've never really taken the saga seriously.

For my thought provoking Sci-Fi I go to trek.

A McGuffin is something that drives the plot forward, but isn't actually the main focus of the story...Midichlorians are mentioned once as an explanation to the force so I don't think it falls into the McGuffin category. The Force is definitely able to fit to that term though, so you're bang on the money there.

OT: I honestly never cared. That whole section went right over my head, and I was just happy that I was watching a film.

 

[BrotherRool]

If George wanted to explain the force, fine, but he should have done it in a way that made sense. Not just say "Midichlorians are in all of us, and they have mystical force powers".

It's a measurement of the mystical. It's like wizards only being able to perform magic due to special bloodcells. It completely destroys the concept of the Force/magic being beyond the physical.

Some people just prefer a completely made up magical explanation to a completely made up scientific explanation.

Still with the former. The magical explanation is more fun.[/quote]
See, I'm totally in the science fantasy camp, I was imagining a totally science-fiction explanation for the force and it completely takes away everything I love about Star Wars. In general I prefer fantasy to sci-fi (Star Wars>Star Trek).

But I don't even see midichlorians as an attempt to explain the Force, it's another example of the force interacting with all life and it explains why some people connect more easily to the Force than others, but it doesn't try to explain the nature of the force or the power of the force, neither of which midichlorians create (except in some of the EU -_-)

I always thought the Force was something only enlightened people could obtain, like buddhist monks. You train, you train, you study the wold you become one with the world. Then you realize everything is connected and this Force is all around you, intangible to others, but you can see it, direct it even control it. Atleast i got that from Yodas training with Luke, saying it's all due to midichlorians when midichlorians aren't even acknowledged in the prequels is just lazy writing and hurrying up the script.

But Luke could become a Jedi because his parents were a jedi, that's explicitly acknowledged in those films. He already had an ability that Kenobi and Yoda sensed in him and trained how to use. The Force is the Force, midichlorians are a pathway to the force, but to use that connection you have to train and mediate on the nature of the force and become one with it. The midi's give you the opportunity but it's the training and understanding of the forces nature that gives you the power

It doesn't solve the problem. It just moves it one step higher. Ok so force sensitives have more Midichlorians (...why is that word in my computers spell checker?), cool. It does explain why some people are force sensitive and some aren't. It isn't just arbitrary! Ok, so why do some people have more Midichlorians than other people? ...A wizard did it? It is still (seemingly) completely arbitrary just with one more link in the chain.

The big thing for me is, if people were force sensitives or not, as a consequence of the Force; or of a consequence of their superior mental ability and wisdom, that's making out the force as a bit of a dick to me and capricious and non all-encompassing. The biological solution doesn't actually tell us the specific mechanics of why some people have more than others, but it removes the responsibility of that from the force itself which is what is important to me.

My problem is not in not knowing the specifics, but that the mystical magical aspect of something would seem to be responsible for that arbitrary thing

 

[DoPo]

So then we could just create force-sensitives by injecting them with some medi-chlorians right?

This is a good question. This always bothered me - I wouldn't mind if Midichlorians were like moss or something - they grow where "the Force is strong" kind of thing, as you say, but if they do give people magical powers, then why the hell aren't there more people with magical powers? I'm sure there would be somebody who would try cultivating and injecting them elsewhere. Maybe a Sith, even. Trying to make the perfect Force sensitive ans stuff.

If the answer is "magic", then that just shows that the Midichlorians aren't actually needed as they don't explain anything.

 

[DEAD34345]

The problem I have with the idea is that they basically change what Jedi are. Before "Midichlorians", Jedi are some kind of badass lightsaber monks who have focused their mind so well it allows them to manipulate both themselves and the world around them using only their thoughts. Afterwards, Jedi are guys with bacteria inside them that gives them magic powers.

Neither explanations are in any way more realistic, but one is much more interesting than the other, at least in my opinion.

 

[RicoADF]

I personally just don;t like how it clashes with the already established themes of the universe.
It was a science-fiction solution for a fantasy world.

It was always a genetic thing, all the prequals did was name the genetic strain that caused the effect. Would leaving it more vague have been a better idea, probably, but it doesn't clash with established story (atleast the movies) and even EU points to a heretic effect.

So then we could just create force-sensitives by injecting them with some medi-chlorians right?

This is a good question. This always bothered me - I wouldn't mind if Midichlorians were like moss or something - they grow where "the Force is strong" kind of thing, as you say, but if they do give people magical powers, then why the hell aren't there more people with magical powers? I'm sure there would be somebody who would try cultivating and injecting them elsewhere. Maybe a Sith, even. Trying to make the perfect Force sensitive ans stuff.

If the answer is "magic", then that just shows that the Midichlorians aren't actually needed as they don't explain anything.

It's genetic not a virus, so it's like saying why don't they give everyone 2 hearts and 4 arms, you would need to re-engineer someones genetic code to produce them.

 

[JediMB]

So then we could just create force-sensitives by injecting them with some medi-chlorians right?

This is a good question. This always bothered me - I wouldn't mind if Midichlorians were like moss or something - they grow where "the Force is strong" kind of thing, as you say, but if they do give people magical powers, then why the hell aren't there more people with magical powers? I'm sure there would be somebody who would try cultivating and injecting them elsewhere. Maybe a Sith, even. Trying to make the perfect Force sensitive ans stuff.

As I recall, your body would reject midi-chlorians that aren't your own.

And it wouldn't be an easy task to inject them into your cells (ALL of your cells) to begin with.

 

[JediMB]

The problem I have with the idea is that they basically change what Jedi are. Before "Midichlorians", Jedi are some kind of badass lightsaber monks who have focused their mind so well it allows them to manipulate both themselves and the world around them using only their thoughts. Afterwards, Jedi are guys with bacteria inside them that gives them magic powers.

No, afterwards they're still "some kind of badass lightsaber monks who have focused their mind so well it allows them to manipulate both themselves and the world around them using only their thoughts."

The only difference is that in addition to saying "the Force is strong with this one", you can say "this one has a high midi-chlorian count."

 

[VoidWanderer]

...in the Phantom Menace* as symbiotic life-forms that help people connect with the force.

It solves the problem I've always had with some people being force sensitive and others not for no particular reason. It felt like election in the worst sense. And the idea that some people could connect with the force because they were 'better' or something, reinforces the idea of smug Jedi.

Midichlorians solve that problem. It's not about the value of the person, there's natural causes that give some people opportunity to do fantastic things.

To me it doesn't destroy the magic of the force. Midichlorians aren't the force and they don't even generate it, they just help people connect with it. Something so mystical manifesting in the biological thats found in all life even adds to the awe factor for me.

And people connecting to the force through the assistant of microscopic things in a symbiotic relationship emphasises the balance and harmony and how power isn't found in the big brash darkside things.


So yeah, for me they fix something that would really bug me otherwise and only increases the Force's mystique.


I believe this is a view that's not shared by many others...


(Though they weren't presented particularly well in the film. Also I was 8 when the Phantom Menace came out so I'd didn't have the experience of having 20 years of previous conceptions overturned which might be flavouring my view a little)




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*The EU was really silly about them. In the film Qui-Gon "Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you." and I assumed that the 'speaking to us' was metaphorical because they connect people with the force and the force is all about the universe wide interconnected harmony etc etc. But in the EU, no, they're sentient and are literally telling you things.

For me, I hate the possibility of 'curing' being Force Sensitive.

I prefer to think of it as being left-handed as opposed to right. Or people who are naturally athletic. I preferred the mystical aspect of the Force rather than 'catching it' as is implied by the microscopic symbiotic organisms.

 

[Something Amyss]

And the idea that some people could connect with the force because they were 'better' or something, reinforces the idea of smug Jedi.

So now they're still better, and have a concrete measurement of how much better they are.

This is an improvement....How?

 

[DoPo]

So then we could just create force-sensitives by injecting them with some medi-chlorians right?

This is a good question. This always bothered me - I wouldn't mind if Midichlorians were like moss or something - they grow where "the Force is strong" kind of thing, as you say, but if they do give people magical powers, then why the hell aren't there more people with magical powers? I'm sure there would be somebody who would try cultivating and injecting them elsewhere. Maybe a Sith, even. Trying to make the perfect Force sensitive ans stuff.

If the answer is "magic", then that just shows that the Midichlorians aren't actually needed as they don't explain anything.

It's genetic not a virus, so it's like saying why don't they give everyone 2 hearts and 4 arms, you would need to re-engineer someones genetic code to produce them.

It's tiny life-forms not genetic. It's like saying "Hey, why don't we give these guys more bacteria". You know, bacteria which would let them do magic.

So then we could just create force-sensitives by injecting them with some medi-chlorians right?

This is a good question. This always bothered me - I wouldn't mind if Midichlorians were like moss or something - they grow where "the Force is strong" kind of thing, as you say, but if they do give people magical powers, then why the hell aren't there more people with magical powers? I'm sure there would be somebody who would try cultivating and injecting them elsewhere. Maybe a Sith, even. Trying to make the perfect Force sensitive ans stuff.

As I recall, your body would reject midi-chlorians that aren't your own.

And it wouldn't be an easy task to inject them into your cells (ALL of your cells) to begin with.

The rejection was never mentioned in the movies, if I recall correctly. And if Palpatine is to be believed, then it is possible to manipulate Midichlorians - apparently Darth Plagueis did so. Why don't more people try it? You could have a legion of magic mooks at your disposal - somebody would be interested, I'm sure.

 

[BrotherRool]

And the idea that some people could connect with the force because they were 'better' or something, reinforces the idea of smug Jedi.

So now they're still better, and have a concrete measurement of how much better they are.

This is an improvement....How?

Because it's not about them being more righteous or anything. It's a genetic/organic thing they had no control over. It's like being really tall. You're 'better' than other people but not in a way that would induce smugness

For me, I hate the possibility of 'curing' being Force Sensitive.

I prefer to think of it as being left-handed as opposed to right. Or people who are naturally athletic. I preferred the mystical aspect of the Force rather than 'catching it' as is implied by the microscopic symbiotic organisms.

You don't catch midi-chlorians, they're inside every single living cell so everyone will naturally have them at birth. They aren't bacteria despite being close to bacteria and you can't cure someone of being force sensitive(unless in the KotoR 2 way) because even non-force sensitive have midichlorians, without them you're literally dead, it's about the amount someone has.

 

[JediMB]

And if Palpatine is to be believed, then it is possible to manipulate Midichlorians - apparently Darth Plagueis did so. Why don't more people try it? You could have a legion of magic mooks at your disposal - somebody would be interested, I'm sure.

Supposedly, the Force itself created Anakin as a form of retaliation against Plagueis' manipulations of the midi-chlorians.

Yes, the Force spawned its own hitman to eradicate the Sith line responsible. So maybe it's not the best of ideas.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I thought the midichlorians were a way to measure how much of the force flowed through you. Granted I had a problem with the new trilogy being that the SGI was too much and took away from the human element of episodes 4, 5 and 6. Also the OG trilogy had good acting.

 

[MSTJedi]

As far as I see it, in my limited understanding of biology, midichlorians are similar to our own mitochondria. They're found in cells, but they're almost a separate organism. Instead of solely generating energy, though, midichlorians also allow a being to sense, affect, and/or control the Force if their numbers are high enough. It was just a pseudo-biological way of explaining the hereditary aspect of Force sensitives.

 

[O maestre]

It ruins it by turning star wars into star trek. Let me explain, Star wars for better or for worse has for me and many other people been more of a fantasy story set in space, mythical and sage wizard, a young ward destined for greatness a black and terrible knight who serves an evil and powerful evil sorcerer and hell even a princess in distress.

I dislike midichlorians and the prequels for that matter, precisely because it ruins the fantasy aspect of Star Wars, by trying to explain magic with bogus science. Add the badly imagined and nonsensical politics and you have a dumb man's Star Trek. Conversely its one of the reasons I disliked DS9, because it tried to bring magic into a thoroughly scientific borderline anti deist universe. Lukes journey could just as well have been part of a medieval Grimm brothers tale.

Its thematically jarring to have all kinds of techno babble shoehorned into a universe like that. How do midichlorians even fit into the scheme of a light and dark side? doesn't it make more sense (again thematically) to see light and dark as black and white magic?

 

[Odbarc]

Micichlorians ruining Star Wars and their "space wizards" is like saying mana ruins dungeons and dragons.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

*The EU was really silly about them. In the film Qui-Gon "Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you." and I assumed that the 'speaking to us' was metaphorical because they connect people with the force and the force is all about the universe wide interconnected harmony etc etc. But in the EU, no, they're sentient and are literally telling you things.

I know people who are suffering from this condition. However, they are not Jedi, but schizophrenic.

I hate and despise the prequel trilogy, because it poops and potentially timeless oeuvre of fun films and completely destroy the man and the myth George Lucas. Indiana Jones 4 just rubs it in some more, for the stubborn ones.

Don't forget that the original trilogy was already a marketing vehicle, as keenly observed by Mel Brooks in Spaceballs. But, and that's a big but, it also seemed to promote petty little things like hope, friendship, strength through meditation and focus, finding your true calling and much more if you care to just watch the movies and see them as a little bit more than they are. With the prequels - nah, they're just nonsensical trash, severely degrading and downgrading the Star Wars experience. See, everyone can strive to be better by internalizing the wise words of Obi Wan or Yoda. No one has to bother bettering themselves much after watching the prequels, since being good or successful is obviously just due to midichlorians, a nonsensical name to a nonsensical thing that does not exist, and even if it did, it wouldn't work that way. I see it as a successful deconstruction of the Jedi 'cult' by atheists & friends.

 

[Casual Shinji]

But I don't even see midichlorians as an attempt to explain the Force, it's another example of the force interacting with all life and it explains why some people connect more easily to the Force than others, but it doesn't try to explain the nature of the force or the power of the force, neither of which midichlorians create (except in some of the EU -_-)

It ties the Force to your body like a predetermined energy supply. It flat-out tells a Jedi how much Force they got in them. And it's never even used in any way beyond Liam Neeson saying "Oh yeah, there's these Force germ things in your body". And then it's never followed up on ever again.

It stops the Force from being the mystical power that binds us all and turns it into a simple superpower.

 

[invadergir]

...in the Phantom Menace* as symbiotic life-forms that help people connect with the force.

It solves the problem I've always had with some people being force sensitive and others not for no particular reason. It felt like election in the worst sense. And the idea that some people could connect with the force because they were 'better' or something, reinforces the idea of smug Jedi.

Midichlorians solve that problem. It's not about the value of the person, there's natural causes that give some people opportunity to do fantastic things.

To me it doesn't destroy the magic of the force. Midichlorians aren't the force and they don't even generate it, they just help people connect with it. Something so mystical manifesting in the biological thats found in all life even adds to the awe factor for me.

And people connecting to the force through the assistant of microscopic things in a symbiotic relationship emphasises the balance and harmony and how power isn't found in the big brash darkside things.


So yeah, for me they fix something that would really bug me otherwise and only increases the Force's mystique.


I believe this is a view that's not shared by many others...


(Though they weren't presented particularly well in the film. Also I was 8 when the Phantom Menace came out so I'd didn't have the experience of having 20 years of previous conceptions overturned which might be flavouring my view a little)




----
*The EU was really silly about them. In the film Qui-Gon "Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you." and I assumed that the 'speaking to us' was metaphorical because they connect people with the force and the force is all about the universe wide interconnected harmony etc etc. But in the EU, no, they're sentient and are literally telling you things.

It always reminded me of the role of mitochondria from Parasite Eve.

And who knows, maybe Lucas ripped off the idea since that's all he can do story-wise anyway.