"I paid for this?": The decline in movie making

[Withall]

About someone with a little more reknown than myself actually pointed to "consumer" when it comes to the cinematic crap out there.
Case in Point:
Many above the age in their mid-twenties rave on the prequel trilogy, without thinking "why did he make those?"
Easiest answer is: "Your money". I recall watching a fan analysis of the Star Wars prequels that said something along the lines of "George Lucas turned the story into a cash cow", seeing as the FANS would buy anything with a Star Wars label somewhere, I think the fan was right, and Mr. Lucas are not going to have to worry about his kids' tuition fees for the next coming decade or so.

While I do sound like a troll with this one, I'm afraid I'd be buying some of the Star Wars products myself, for the satisfaction of having assembled it, not so much caring for where it came from, and where the money went *cough*.


I just realized, couldn't the majority of action movies these days be a promotion for "feelies". In most cases, toys and other young male, young boy-oriented stuff.

Comicbooks could and are used to expand a canon universe that doesn't fit in the movie, but are also a form of "feelie".

Of course, it all boils down to who gets the money in the end.

 

[blackshark121]

Yes this is unfortunately true. I work in the industry, and due to the youtube, some extensive pirating of films, and lack of people going to theaters for anything other than blockbuster films, The industry is only going to keep spiraling downward into a repeat of the same slapstick comedy film with different highly popular actors.

I work in the industry today and getting investors to invest in any film is getting to be damn near impossible. Big studios will only produce the big crap that looks amazing but is nothing new story-wise, and the little guys will produce their 3 minutes wig out sessions that get millions of hits for free. Thus leaving anyone in the middle out on the cold.

So before you download that latest film, just realize you are attributing to the decline in artistic expression in filmmaking.

Hm, I feel like you're talking to me. Drawing on the original argument, why should we give money to the industry when they do a bad job? I pirated Iron Man 2, liked it, and went to the theater and watched it. other, worse movies, I don't go see, because they aren't worth the money.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I hope you're not trying to imply Avatar is anywhere near as horrible as the Transformers movies. It might be emotionally manipulative, simple, crass and obvious, but at least it's never the outright kick to the groin the Transformers films were. I mean, even just in terms of pure film making and directing, Avatar is leagues ahead of Michael Bay's crap. Not that it's a good movie, again, but there's a huge difference between a massively generic but somewhat competent film and the worst movie I think I've ever seen.

I'd watch almost any bad movie I can think of rather than see Transformers again. And this is just talking about the first Transformers movie-the one people call the "good" one. I was ready for that video torture to be over at the half-hour mark.

 

[The Rockerfly]

I actually found gladiator to be fairly dull and only one line from Gladiator really sticks in my mind. While I think Gladiator was more tasteful, that does not make it better.

I'm not citing Gladiator as flawless, mind you. (The political subplot was dull and made no sense.) And I don't really mean to be as combative as I'm sounding -- obviously I just really really didn't like 300. But in terms of action, I'd set the sequences in Gladiator against anything from 300 any day of the week. I don't think it's even a close contest. And at least the whole film wasn't dull, in the way I found 300 to be.

And in terms of the dialogue, it's obviously a question of personal taste. But when I mentally compare and contrast those two films (I'm leaving Spartacus out of this, because it would embarrass both of them), I find the Spartans delivering dialogue that sounds crafted to be quoted by dorks in their Facebook profiles ("This... is... SPARTA!" "Tonight... we dine... in HELL!"). I can't think of any of it that compares with Maximus' "What we do in life, echoes in eternity" or Proximo's "Ultimately, we are all dead men" speech from Gladiator.

And that voiceover from 300... oh my God... if the rest of the movie weren't so creepy, that would've put it in "so bad, it's good" territory. Remember, kids: the world of the Spartans was hard. Cold. And hard.

That is a form of motivation though. If you hate something you'll work as hard as possible to get rid of them.

I generally dislike the use of ancient history as an excuse for present-day allegories of nationalist douchebaggery and find hate-based politics inherently creepy, resonant of some of the very worst movements of modern history and the present day. Mileage, and awareness of / interest in those issues, varies. But wherever one stands, I also find it profoundly alien and unfaithful to what actually made the Spartans admirable or interesting. 300 is one of the movies where people are IMO better off finding out about the actual history, without Miller's filter.

I will give you that some of the creatures were unrealistic and felt out of place though

Honestly, I could've lived with the silly rhinos. The Immortals as lizard-monsters and the endless slow-mo were dealbreakers for me.

Y'know what, I think it'd be much better as just to agree to disagree. You aren't going to change my opinion and I'm not going to change.

I also need sleep so lets just accept both films flaws and be done with it

 

[cmstewart87]

So before you download that latest film, just realize you are attributing to the decline in artistic expression in filmmaking.

I see the record industry isn't alone in using "piracy" as an excuse for its shortcomings. That's at least interesting.

Yes I do understand its an excuse, but I do not use it as the only issue. You'd be suprised how quickly a feature in theaters gets online to download for free, but it also ends up on DVD copies and resold on the street in countries the film has yet to be released in. I understand the thought on downloading a film and if you like it going to see it in theaters and purchasing a ticket and thus supporting it financially, but the movies that you don't go see because you didn't enjoy it (even if it is the worst thing ever). You took money away from the makers of it who maybe had an amazing film ready to be made but could never get the money for it because too many people pirated the film.

The fact is. The film industry is a large collection of filmmakers giving each other money in order to make more money and make more films. If one area doesn't get money then it affects all areas.

Also LA is just F***ing weird...

*EDIT* Don't get caught with illegal films and or distributing such...Film companies are going to be bigger assholes than any record company. Trust me...I work for them >.<

 

[Aureli]

Timotei, I would just like to say, that as a film student, you are officially my new hero.

 

[temporalcrux]

Much like a drug addict, Hollywood wants to feel good about itself. So it does what your usual drug addict does: suck. Many times in a row, usually in several different forms.

This is why you shouldn't bother with "Hollywood" movies. Pick up smaller name movies and enjoy them. Movies like "Lars and the Real Girl". That movie invoked sympathy, humor, sadness. I almost actually friggin teared up when Bianca died.

The mainstream, shown-in-theater movies are horrible and going downhill. Hollywood likes feeling safe, so remakes are what they will be doing for a while until it collapses.

 

[temporalcrux]

More Warner Bros. Cartoon movies! THAT'S what we need!

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

I do a certain amount of animation study. What I've worked out is that any piece of creative work is best when it is driven by a vision - a coherent story set in a coherent world with a unique hero. Then it succeeds financially by smart thinking on how to get that vision into your medium without compromising too much on either the vision or your necessary financial restraints.

Unfortunately, many big-budget movies are made the other way around. They get a big pile of money and decide how best to convert it into an even bigger pile of money. They make a formula (take several big-name actors, one award-winning director, a famous effects studio, a well-known composer) and work on the "mix them all together, it'll be all good, and even if we create shit, it's shit people will pay to watch".

See? The FOCUS is different. Good films often have a vision behind them. The makers are not so concerned about it's fiscal success, so long as they can tell their story, show off their world. Bad films are too often driven by money. The big people funding them are not interested in creating art, or telling a story, or anything creative. They simply need a return on their investment.

For the record, I don't watch movies at the cinema much anymore, but I'll watch a good movie on DVD anyday. And I'll buy it legit. Cause one day, just maybe, that might be my movie, with my little story and imaginary world. And I'd like to think people would like it that much that they would spend their money on it, rather than ripping it off the net.

 

[BonsaiK]

[HEADING=3]"Rosebud..."[/HEADING]​

Possibly single most famous line in cinema history. A single line from a single movie which shall forever echo through the annuls of history. Why? Because it was a memorable line from a memorable movie, an example of film making at its best.

You lost me right at the start with that. Citizen Kane? Are you kidding? I hated that film, what a pile of boring, overwrought nonsense. Impressive when it come out, maybe, but if anyone tried to pull that Captain Obvious shit these days they'd get their funding pulled fasted than you can say "Uwe Boll's boxing ring". You should have used an example from Gone With The Wind, now there's a far better film.

Film-making these days is better than it's ever been. Cinematography, sound, camera quality, special effects and especially acting methodology have all improved exponentially. Sure, mainstream Hollywood still often sucks, but then it always has sucked. It's just that the shit films from the 1940s have all been forgotten, only the good stuff remains in people's memories hence the idea of the older stuff generally being better. No way. Same thing happens with music. People who swear by 60s and 70s rock wouldn't believe some of the godawful fucking trash rock music that was released in extremely high quantities during the 60s and 70s. It's easy to pull out good examples from back then and compare them to bad examples from now... the reverse can be done easily, it's just that most of the old films before the advent of VHS are so shit that they're mostly not even on YouTube, they've just simply been forgotten - period. In many cases the original reels don't even exist, that's how much people cared.

 

[Squoze]

Meh, I got this rant from my high school teacher years ago, nothing new.

Defendor, 500 days of summer, Coraline, Doubt, Gran Torino, In Burges, Let the Right One in, Pan's Labyrinth, Moon, Session 9, Sunshine, and The Crazies, have all been (as far as I'm concerned) great motion pictures that fans of cinema might enjoy. These are newer movies, and I as a fan of cinema am greatful I am alive in this time when such great movies are created.

The supporting actors in Gran Torino were atrociously bad, not much to say about that movie. Sunshine starts off great, but then the plot takes a horrible plunge in the final third of the movie.

Spoiler: Sunshine spoilers abound!

I mean really, a psycho burnt-up murderer?!?! The movie was doing great having man fight against the vastness of the sun, the vacuum of space, and his own inner demons. There was no need to bring Freddy Cougar into outer space.

 

[SonicKoala]

Eh, I've seen a lot of amazing movies recently which have been made in the last couple of years - Inglourious Basterds, Let the Right one In, Up in the Air, hell, even The Hurt Locker.... so yeah, I agree that there are a lot of crappy movies being made today, but there are still plenty of great ones.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Here's all I hear from discussions like this, "Blah blah blah blah NOSTALGIA blah blah blah". Give modern movies a decade or two and you'll be looking back on the good ones with the same sense of, "movies were better in the 00s". Just as much garbage came out back then too, the only reason you don't know about it is because it was crap and got forgotten.

 

[agrandstudent]

the movies that you don't go see because you didn't enjoy it (even if it is the worst thing ever). You took money away from the makers of it who maybe had an amazing film ready to be made but could never get the money for it because too many people pirated the film.

This doesn't make sense. If they could make an amazing film why weren't they able to make one that was at least average and worthy of buying a ticket?. If a director was handed a bad script that they couldn't make a good movie out of shouldn't they do something about it before they start filming? If they failed to make a good movie why should we trust them that the next one will be any better? Why should we be expected to act more reckless with our money than the movie industry. They wont give out money for a movie in hopes of the next one being better.

 

[Nazulu]

I love you. Just makes me happy to see I'm not the only one that points out all the horrible crap of today's media and compares it to the classics.

However you can't blame people for seeing movies, not everyone is going to take the media seriously, usually you just go to the movies to hang out with friends/family and experience something together, I'm mainly saying this because you mentioned Avatar. Yeah we know it isn't the greatest thing ever, nowhere near, but James Cameron advertised it very well, and because of that, it made billions, and I know most of those people were entertained.

Nothing we can do, I'm just gonna keep criticising all the crap that comes out.

 

[Nazulu]

Here's all I hear from discussions like this, "Blah blah blah blah NOSTALGIA blah blah blah". Give modern movies a decade or two and you'll be looking back on the good ones with the same sense of, "movies were better in the 00s". Just as much garbage came out back then too, the only reason you don't know about it is because it was crap and got forgotten.

Nostalgia doesn't go for everyone and yes, there was a lot of crap then too but there was also a log of good and even great, a lot of memorable shit.