I take 40k seriously I and I find it fun as Hell

[J Tyran]

In Design: I could go on for ages about this, but the design of the miniatures for both games is extremely shallow. In neither game is any pretense at realism even attempted. Characters have inhuman proportions, with ridiculously exaggerated limbs and weapons, to the degree that GW is infamous for using a "heroic" scale differing from other more realistic games. But in any case the current design aesthetic for GW is as appropriately described by Yahtzee in one of his reviews, like someone started drawing a character and never stopped. Rather than create characters with depth that convey what they are about through their sense of motion or mood like vastly superior designers (ex: Red Box Games, Infinity), GW establishes what the figures are about by mercilessly tacking on accessories onto every figure until they look like they're carrying their entire knick-knack shelf on their person.

absolutely correct! those "superior" and more "realistic" designs dont do any of those things at all.......

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Well, maybe I should clear this up a little bit. I don't really have that much exposure to the 40k universe, directly exposure anyway. Really all I've done for that is play the Kill Team and Space Marine video games. That being said, I have this one borderline insane friend (insane in a good way) who loves to go on and on and on about it, to the point where I like to think that I know a fair amount about the universe, in addition to reading a fair chunk of the lore online.

I also have a few friends like that, and have done some research of my own. One problem a lot of fans are having is they feel the lore is being ruined by the current head writer, who i'm told has an actual, physical erection for one small group of spacemarines (though this of course I cannot confirm in a literal OR figurative sense)

A thing that I notice a lot about 40k online is that people constantly dismiss 40k as too dark to take seriously, I think we remember that thread from way back when asking how people could find 40k's story remotely appealing, when it's constantly dark, it sucks to be everyone and there is next to no hope of survival so why should you bother? Well, maybe it's my inner masochist talking, the one that likes Dark Souls, but that's half of the fun. Standing on the brink of oblivion, with there being a one in a million chance of you actually being able to salvage the terrible situation that your world is in and fighting on anyway is just something that I like.

I don't think it's too DARK to take seriously, and anyone who does is woefully inexperience with a lot of fiction. The reason you can't take it seriously is because it's a cartoon. It's like a parody of the genre.

But really the main point of this thread isn't simply to hammer in my own opinion on a franchise (mostly) it's to kind of make a point. The wonderful thing about fiction is that it's already detached from reality to a certain point. I've watched the first two seasons of Game of Thrones and read a good chunk of what's going to happen later on in a Song of Ice and Fire and I can't help but notice that world's where just about everything is screwed seemed to be fairly popular. My theory is that people like dark oppressive worlds because it helps build character, for better or for worst, it shows what people do under the stress of the situation, what lengths they'll go to in order to keep living or to fight for what they'll believe in, and I think that deep down inside we all want to see them beat the odds and come out on top even if we know they won't because we all love an underdog.

But that's the thing, fiction has to have some sort of ground to it, or be entirely divorced from reality. 40K has no ground. It is balls-out crazy all the time. But it's balls-out crazy that ACTS like its grimdark serious shit. It tries to pull off grim'n'gritty realism with More Dakka, and fails because of it. The only way to enjoy it by taking it seriously is to be 13 and not know better. It's a setting devoid of characters and plot, only shouting, bullet-spewing meattanks and ERMAGERD DEATH AND STUFF BLARGHSKDJFAFAPVA. So its perfectly reasonable to ENJOY it, but but to take it seriously. Because it isn't serious. at all. Also, there are no underdogs in the 40k universe, because EVERYONE is a suicide squad.

Now, obviously thats all just my opinion, so feel free to ignore it. In the meantime I'm gonna go play Paranoia

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I couldn't agree more.

I absolutely despise the people who bang on about how silly it is and how it's really just satire and that I'm just not getting it.

No. Fuck that.

On of my favorite scenes in any movie is in V for Vendetta. Stephen Fry has just aired his incredibly inflammatory show. After a short exchange, he is asked "Is everything a joke to you?" to which he replies "Only the things that matter".

I find this brilliant as it encapsulates my outlook. Take reality as a joke and take fantasy as seriously as you want.

That's how I feel about 40k. It's dark, epic, beautiful and has incredible depth.

Granted, it has occasional hilarity in the form of THE HERO OF THE IMPIRIUM and the Orks and whatnot, but for the most part, I love it in much more serious light.

 

[Mister K]

But how can you NOT like a universe with such charismatic orcks? "Red goes fastah!"

 

[Darks63]

I like 40k myself but it hard to take a universe seriously when their machines are repaired though the power of prayer.

You do realise its not literal prayer, but to them, knowledge and technology is the religion right? They just say a prayer as they're repairing. Preparing a machine for battle is actual diagnostics and loading, but it has become a ritual. Its actually really quite an interesting take on religion.

yeah i realize some of the prayers/rituals are like that the lasgun litanies for example but then they have prayer censors and such for bigger operations that have little to do with actually fixing the tech.

The prayers are for the machines spirit and to thank the machine god, they do actually make physical repairs as well. There is a machine god and machines do have a spirit. The machines have spirits simply because the humans believe they have them, the warp and psychic forces are a very real part of the world and the machine god is a powerful god like entity thats been around for billions of years and has a tendency to enslave biological life through cybernetics. Ork technology is the same in many respects, it works because the orks believe it works even though they physically shouldn't.

The main issue i have with the ork tech is that the fluff at times can be inconsistent where sometimes it only works for orks and no-one else, or it can work for non orks just fine, or it simply blows up in your face if your not a ork although sometimes it even blows up in their faces too

 

[J Tyran]

I like 40k myself but it hard to take a universe seriously when their machines are repaired though the power of prayer.

You do realise its not literal prayer, but to them, knowledge and technology is the religion right? They just say a prayer as they're repairing. Preparing a machine for battle is actual diagnostics and loading, but it has become a ritual. Its actually really quite an interesting take on religion.

yeah i realize some of the prayers/rituals are like that the lasgun litanies for example but then they have prayer censors and such for bigger operations that have little to do with actually fixing the tech.

The prayers are for the machines spirit and to thank the machine god, they do actually make physical repairs as well. There is a machine god and machines do have a spirit. The machines have spirits simply because the humans believe they have them, the warp and psychic forces are a very real part of the world and the machine god is a powerful god like entity thats been around for billions of years and has a tendency to enslave biological life through cybernetics. Ork technology is the same in many respects, it works because the orks believe it works even though they physically shouldn't.

The main issue i have with the ork tech is that the fluff at times can be inconsistent where sometimes it only works for orks and no-one else, or it can work for non orks just fine, or it simply blows up in your face if your not a ork although sometimes it even blows up in their faces too

The word inconsistent is probably a good description for Orks in general I cannot remember where the quote came from but it was in 40k fluff but its basically "when considering Orks remember that exceptions are the rule".

 

[ischmalud]

lol i havent really got much to add to this but f*** me thats one of the funniest things ive read on this site in a long time.
hmm actually i can think of one thing that noone seems to have mentioned - the original lore was created in the late 70s early 80s and having growen up in europe in that time i can tell you that people pretty much where convinced that the cold war is going to go hot before its over - so that was a bit of a grim spectre always in the back of peoples minds and most importantly there was nothing we could do about it since the power to make that choice wasnt ours.
little food of thought

chaos protects!

 

[Commissar Sae]

Actually it kind of does. The whole idea is that chess is based on the idea of regicide being required to end bloody warfare.

I have owned several chess sets in my life. Not once has one come with a story set up printed in the rules.

True enough but the narrative is still there. Otherwise we would call them piece 1 or G or something rather than King or knight. Most people generally ignore the narrative but it is still there.

 

[Saviordd1]

Game of Thrones

Funny you should mention that since that is the only piece of literature I have ever read where I could predict what every single character is going to do since the entire series if full of assholes. Also, it is boring and the attempts at eroticism and wit are really sub-sophomoric and read like a Final Fantasy VII fanfic.

Also FOR FUCK'S SAKE WHAT IS WITH YOU AND "THE STORY" THERE IS NO ONE "STORY". There are multiple settings and "takes" on the series (as mentioned in this thread with the differences between Gaunt's Ghosts and The Horus Heresy). If you're going to have this fixation on the shoulder pads, I'm going to get fixated on how the "Gangstas in Space" mission from Saints Row The Third is pretty much Mass Effect in a nutshell in terms of storytelling and exposition.

Ah, how refreshing. I insult someones SUPAH SERIOUS SETTING and they attack everything they think I like with reckless abandon.

Seriously, Mass Effect wasn't even in the discussion but you saw my avatar and had to teach me a lesson for thrashing your setting right?

And Game of Thrones is the sophomoric thing here...

 

[Weaver]

I just kind of feel 40k started to take itself way too seriously. Compare 1st and 2nd edition (I started playing 2nd) to the current 6th and there seems to be a subtle tonal shift.

The earlier games absolutely knew how hilariously over-the-top everything was. The current codices seem to have lost this "feel".

 

[MintberryCrunch]

WH40K just reminds me of heavy metal album covers. Y'know, all skulls and monsters and muscly dudes with axes and whatnot, like it's forgotten that it's just a recording of some hairy guys yelling into a microphone and playing electric guitar.

It was actually 40K that inspired a lot of those album covers, Napalm Death in particular used Warhammer box art and got Games Workshop to specially design them a few album cover, I think. This was primarily due to the fact that most metal fans are also massive gaming nerds (not saying they all are, just in the 80s the bands especially were like that).

OT: The closest I ever got into Warhammer was playing the Lord of the Rings variant when I was younger. I generally found painting the models to be many times more fun than the tabletop battling anyway, and never got into the lore at all as such.

 

[F-I-D-O]

Actually some authors of fluff have definitely set this tone VERY well. Dan Abnet is the only one i know to actually make an effort to set up this kind of thing in the fluff. Ravenor and gaunts ghosts were really good for this reason.

Have you read the Eisenhorn series by chance? I love how in the first Eisenhorn book, Abnet:
1) Creates a new race
2) Develops a religious system for them
3) Develops a class system
4) Creates a history
5) Creates a branch of technology for them
6) Has them introduce a MASSIVE plot element
and

Spoiler

kills them

in the span of 60 pages, while also following the inquisitorial squad through the strange terrain.
Also while Eisenhorn is less mystery and more action and political movements, there are still some decent twists. It does a great job of setting up the political movements in the Empire, but not focusing on them. The tone is prevalent, and it shows the origins of Ravenor.
I can't wait until the Eisenhorn vs Ravenor trilogy comes out in an omnibus.

I love 40k. Yes, it's over the top. Yes, it's ridiculous. But the right author can make it work.
For example, I read Graham McNeil's Ultramarines for a similar reason to why I read Lord of the Rings now. Yeah, it's not hard to tell where the story is going. But some little twists make it fun, and the battles are just as amazing as they have ever been. Reading of a massive tank battle through the tight streets of an imperial production city, with a Baneblade leading a charge Imperial Guard armour into a Tau defensive line is enjoyable. Or following a space marine diving into close combat with the tau, a crazed rocket-wielding guardsman who fell of the barricade behind him may be over the top, but it's just great fun.
One of Graham McNeil's books rips HEAVILY from Of Mice and Men. The ending is practically the same, but replace a normal pistol with a LASER pistol. But, he made it work. Looking back on the ending, I laugh at it, but it was a decent ending in context.
And most of Warhammer 40k should be viewed in context. This density makes it difficult for newcomers. And taken out of context, and moment can feel like a 12 year old's description of a future war. But in context everything comes together fine. 40k is just 40k. It requires a certain level of suspension of disbelief that some people don't like.

Disclaimer: I've never played a second of the tabletop game. I've played the video games and read the books.

 

[SweetShark]

I still remember from my "Warhammer 40k Versus the World" threads I created in the past, a user told us that the Orcs use somekind of "aura" made with magic to built their weapons and any kind of merchanical beasts they have to their arsenal.
But here's the catch:
The aura was actually their stunborn willpower to built something from ANYTHING THEY FIND EVEN IF THE MATERIAL THEY FIND MAKE NO SENSE. Why they can do that you may ask? IT IS F*CKING MAGIC, YOU KNOW THE DRILL!!!!

For example if an Orc find an pencil and want to create a gun with it..........HE WILL DO IT BECAUSE HE BELIEVED SO!!!!!!

And with that said, there are many other EXTREME examples, how ridiculous is Warhammer universe.......and that why I love it ;3

 

[Zenn3k]

I was interested in 40k around early high school. However, the investment to even START playing was like $300 in pieces, most of which were $20-$50 a pop. After I saw that, I quickly forgot about 40k and never cared about it again.

 

[saintdane05]

I was interested in 40k around early high school. However, the investment to even START playing was like $300 in pieces, most of which were $20-$50 a pop. After I saw that, I quickly forgot about 40k and never cared about it again.

A decent starter army usually has a starter box of about $100. Mine is a total $175. It's expensive to make that stuff.

 

[Zenn3k]

I was interested in 40k around early high school. However, the investment to even START playing was like $300 in pieces, most of which were $20-$50 a pop. After I saw that, I quickly forgot about 40k and never cared about it again.

A decent starter army usually has a starter box of about $100. Mine is a total $175. It's expensive to make that stuff.

Expensive, lol.

They are just grey pewter statues, $175 for a set is insanity.

 

[Space commando 75]

i think this some's up the silly side of 40k.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg9eR66uLOg

and this is why i love the orks.

 

[Space commando 75]

I was interested in 40k around early high school. However, the investment to even START playing was like $300 in pieces, most of which were $20-$50 a pop. After I saw that, I quickly forgot about 40k and never cared about it again.

A decent starter army usually has a starter box of about $100. Mine is a total $175. It's expensive to make that stuff.

Expensive, lol.

They are just grey pewter statues, $175 for a set is insanity.

and GW wonder why people are going to discount's websites. wayland games is my favourite.

 

[saintdane05]

...and homoerotic. I'm fairly certain it's unintentional, but bloody hell, the Horus Heresy novels spend a lot of time dwelling on how "beautiful" all those big muscular primarchs are.

Yeah, you heard me. Space Marines are gay.

So much for the ultra grim dark future then. Where are the f-ing rainbows?!
Atleast social acceptance levels went up.

The Rainbow Warriros?
Here they are.

 

[J Tyran]

Eisenhorn stuff

Eisenhorn was a tie in book for the launch of my favorite 40k game of them all, Inquisitor. Part RPG part TT game you built up either an inquisitors warband or his enemies and over a series of games (or just one) fight it out with a narrative. Its hard to get a game now, most of the younger players never picked it up.