Idea for JRPG remakes

[Retoru]

Anyway, the guy called FF7 a masterpiece, once you read that sentence you should've known that you could just stop reading the post because nothing of any importance would be said. The game isn't bad, but it isn't particularly good either. It's pure mediocrity, a game that probably wouldn't have pushed anywhere near the number of units it did if it didn't have Final Fantasy in it's name.

So what generic "realistic" sandbox piece of crap would you have us play ? My having good taste (and your lack of) does not invalidate my point.
Yes, FFVII is now dated and many moronic people like to say how X is soo much better. But back when it was released it was the best rpg around. Slow enough (as is the main point of RPGs) to appease the rpg snobs but fast paced enough to draw people in.
The story was fantastic, humourous, tragic and always interesting.
Plus it set out what it meant to do, make a shitload of money and solehandedly bring RPGs to the western market. I had never heard of Final Fantasy before VII sooo say what you want but it will always be considered a classic in RPG gaming.

We agree on one thing, sandbox games are crap. Though, I have to disagree with your generalization of "morons like me", because I think Final Fantasy X was a pretty dull game. It was far from the best RPG around when it was released, probably as far from it as you can get without leaving the planet entirely.

Just because you were either young or an RPG neophyte at the time of it's release doesn't mean Final Fantasy VII brought RPGs to the western mainstream. There were a great deal of RPGs that sold a solid amount of units before Final Fantasy VII, most of them on the SNES, and two of those SNES games being Final Fantasy titles.

Like I said, I don't think Final Fantasy VII was a bad game, it just wasn't a particularly good game. The plot was convoluted and filled with more holes than a block of Swiss cheese. The characters were very one dimensional and showed no real emotion or growth throughout 95% of the game. And, seriously, Sephiroth? He's a total badass? Really? He reminded me of Heike Kagero just a little too much to take seriously.

But, the game wasn't all bad. I did like the idea of the materia system, the chocobo breeding aspect was fun, and the musical score was amazing. But, all the flaws of the game just overcome the few stand-out aspects.

 

[mooncalf]

I don't want to see old games rehashed into *cough* oblivion. It's not an awful idea, but what publisher in their right mind would green-flag it? Well, the game industry equivilant to the kind who released Disney's Lion King 3, sure, but you don't want that kind of publisher touching classic (like it or loathe it) IP.

FF has so many sequels, a remake even in a new perspective would feel like a treachery to the spirit of each one being strange and different to it's predecessor.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Right, now that the rabid fanboys have spoken...

I like JRPG's. Or Liked. I'm not sure anymore, I keep trying to play them but I feel like I wasted my money, I can never get into it anymore. But back in the day I played the hell out of Xenogears and FF7. Xenogears was the first game I played until I was about to drop out unconscious from being up so late.

And while I wasn't exactly drawn into Oblivion it seems like It could've been an entertaining game. Alas I could only run it on 640x800 at lowest graphics so I expect I missed out on a bit of what it had to offer. I don't understand why people keep saying it was shit- very few games are actually shit. There are of course exceptions...like Spawn, or Mercenaries 2 for the PS2, etc etc...

But! it seems to be the JRPG's have their biggest strength in Narrative, story, and characterization. The Western RPG has it's greatest strength in ...well, gameplay and mechanics. A meeting of the minds could go well- take Kingdom Hearts. Okay, not the deepest game but y'know what? I played the F**K out of it and i'm a jaded cynical guy. It's just a game you get into despite it's many and obvious flaws. It loses out on some of the Japanese narrative, and some of the western gameplay, but in the middle it made for a VERY successful venture.

So, I dunno, the idea could work, but taking the Unreal Engine onto old IP's solves nothing. Basically what developers need to do is learn to shake up and refine the area's they're weakest in. Thats all.

Yeah, and maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

I don't want to see old games rehashed into *cough* oblivion. It's not an awful idea, but what publisher in their right mind would green-flag it? Well, the game industry equivilant to the kind who released Disney's Lion King 3, sure, but you don't want that kind of publisher touching classic (like it or loathe it) IP.

FF has so many sequels, a remake even in a new perspective would feel like a treachery to the spirit of each one being strange and different to it's predecessor.

*cough* FFX-2.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

*cough* FFX-2.

No such thing exists. <.<;;; Like germany from 1939-1945. Nothing happened, never existed, everyone went on vacation, anything else is just all in your head. (family guy refference)

Also Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerebus.

Also, FF7 occurs in the same universe as FFX.

The writer of both games, Kazushige Nojima , stated as such in various interviews. Starting with Final Fantasy X's Ultimania Guide (a Japanese-only hardcore series of guides, some of which has been translated by fans) and elaborated on in X-2.

--"Huh, so VII and X ARE connected?"

Nojima
"Well, there's not many specifics to it. I know that what becomes of people
when they die is among them; you could say that it's basically the same. Both
[concepts came to] function along the same line of thought as I wrote the
stories. Sometimes my thoughts just flow out like that, even though pyreflies
distinctly aren't green."

--"When you speak of the dead becoming [something] green, do you perhaps
[mean]......?"

Nojima
"Yes. In my mind, pyreflies and VII's Lifestream are the same substance."

****

Nojima
"Actually, it does. After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous
financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako
Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for
utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to
distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another
world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after
this story, I think."

Also, FFT and FFTA and FF12 all happen in the same world.

ALSO, FF13 and FF13 Versus.

 

[Syntax Error]

^ Don't forget FF13 Agito.

If there was one game I'd like to see translated right now, it's gonna have to be the A.C.E (Another Century's End) series. In Japan, there are two kinds of Mecha, the "Real Robot" and the "Combiners". Combiners are those ultra large robots that become complete through a "unification" process (an example would be the Lion Force Voltron). Real Robots on the other hand, are smaller, more lithe, can generally move faster and more of a bad-ass.(examples are the Gundams, though they're not really mechs and those from Eureka Seven).

A.C.E. takes many Real Robots from different anime series and plunks them down in an arena for the ultimate battle royale. At least, that's what I can make out from the YouTube videos.

The problem here would probably the age of gamers. Once you're old enough, it's safe to say that you've seen everything and it becomes harder to see something new/innovative. Such is the case of (most) JRPG's. At the very least, if the sotry is going to be more or less the same, make the delivery and characters stand out.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Also Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerebus.

Also, FF7 occurs in the same universe as FFX.

Okay now youre just begging to be curb stomped.

Actually I can dig that. FFIX had its own spirit of gaia so did Spirits Within (incidently that premise has basically become my religion)
And seeing as how Shinra and thus Midgar seem to be vastly technologically superior to the rest of the planet that does make a sort of sense. I have not played Crisis Core but have played Dirge. Sure the gameplay sucks but the story is okay (if you overlook the whole Captian Planet bit when Vincent turns into Chaos) however FFX-2 was a complete and utter piece of shit.
It was not a final fantasy game but more a brintey spears RPG. Funnily enough the director for that atroscity is the same director for FFXIII so I wont be going near that with a 50 foot barge pole. ^__^

I'm not begging anything, i'm simply telling the truth. Also if thats become your religeon, I hope to god you mean a REAL religeon like perhaps the Native Americans practice, otherwise your like those psychos who have a 'jedi' church. Then again, all paths to enlightenment blah blah, so whatever floats your boat and makes you non violent and content.

I just want a good Gundam game. Not a Super Robot War game, GUNDAM. Make it original, or better yet make it the original Mobile Suit Gundam.

 

[mooncalf]

No such thing exists. <.<;;; Like germany from 1939-1945. Nothing happened, never existed, everyone went on vacation, anything else is just all in your head. (family guy refference)

We were invited! Tea was served! FF has some wonderful beer halls

 

[mark_n_b]

While both my Otaku Third (yay large eyes and katana's!) and my Ferret Third (NEW THING! SHINY! WEEEE DANCU DANCU) both think this is a great idea, my Cynical Bastard Third (Meh) thinks it's aweful and would only lead to half baked poorly constructed games.

Really, isn't the cynical bastard third right about ninety percent of the games to hit the market anyway? Given that all I can say is "nothing ventured, nothing gained" Not Star Wars though... Oh My God, that would be a f***up of massive proportions if we are to look at LucasArts since they stopped making Monkey Island games.

My one thing is that the traditional JRPG has more or less been played. Square-Enix is readjusting the game dynamics in JRPGs and I am inclined to believe we are going to start seeing less and less turn based combat as the years progress. Linear game-play aside (plenty of linear western games) the traditional JRPG set up was a graphical take on traditional pen & paper and text game mechanics. It was what it was because there was only 8 / 16 bits to work with.

Tradition carried it to our lives today, but we see so much of the tweaking out of the turn based system as it is, how many more years do we all think it's gonna last.

What would Mass Effect or Tomb Raider look like though after getting the "Japanese treatment"? With all the hit and miss of it all I couldn't say it would be good or bad.

 

[GloatingSwine]

In Japan, there are two kinds of Mecha, the "Real Robot" and the "Combiners".

Right on the first part, not on the second.

The two robot genres are "Real Robot" (Gundam, Macross, Code Geass, etc), and "Super Robot" (Gao Gai Gar, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, etc).

Real Robots generally pay some kind of lip service to the laws of physics, whereas Super Robots treat the laws of physics as a set of outmoded and quaint little rules that are to be flounted at every available opportunity.

Combining robots are usually Super Robots, due to the whole "Physics is my *****" aspect of it, but Super Robots are not necessarily Combining Robots (Mazinger Z, for instance).

 

[GloatingSwine]

And speaking of Giant Robots, someone needs to get Megas XLR into Super Robot Wars.

 

[Syntax Error]

Right on the first part, not on the second.

The two robot genres are "Real Robot" (Gundam, Macross, Code Geass, etc), and "Super Robot" (Gao Gai Gar, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, etc).

Real Robots generally pay some kind of lip service to the laws of physics, whereas Super Robots treat the laws of physics as a set of outmoded and quaint little rules that are to be flounted at every available opportunity.

Combining robots are usually Super Robots, due to the whole "Physics is my *****" aspect of it, but Super Robots are not necessarily Combining Robots (Mazinger Z, for instance).

Oh yeah, I forgot the term "Super Robot". As I was typing that, I was wondering how how I could classify Mazinger Z. Are there any Super Robot anime out there where the super robot has the speed and agility of a Real Robot? Speaking of which, I grew up to Voltes V (an example of a Combuner). In the late 70's, when according to history we were under martial law, the show got cancelled just five episodes before it ended because the Marcos administration feared it would spark a "civilian uprising" (whether that was true or not, a "civilian uprising" happened anyway). But I'm boring you to death by now, LET'S TALK ROBOTS!

 

[GloatingSwine]

Are there any Super Robot anime out there where the super robot has the speed and agility of a Real Robot?

Most of the modern ones. But quite a lot of Super Robots simply don't need speed and agility. I mean when you can make an entire fleet of enemies explode by the sheer awesomeness of your very presence (which actually happens in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann), it doesn't matter how fast they are...

 

[Syntax Error]

Now I GOT to see TTGL.

Here's an idea:
JRPG starring a cast of Real Robots and the Big Bad is the biggest Super-Robot Combiner ever put to paper. Don't make the pilots faceless, give them their own backstories and have the Big Bad commit unspeakable acts. There, you hate him, now destroy him and save the world!

 

[GloatingSwine]

Here's an idea:
JRPG starring a cast of Real Robots and the Big Bad is the biggest Super-Robot Combiner ever put to paper. Don't make the pilots faceless, give them their own backstories and have the Big Bad commit unspeakable acts. There, you hate him, now destroy him and save the world!

Now you've really got to see TTGL

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Ah you young un's! I remember back when all Western RPG's were terribly boring dungeon crawls that had stagnated beyond reason with only the rare gem to liven things up and JRPG's were innovative because they actually had "stories". Bioware and Black Isle thankfully changed all that with Fallout and Baldurs Gate, but one must remember that Baldurs Gate was praised for having "a Console (aka JRPG) Style Story" that actually sucked you in, as opposed to the boring old "Fight the Evil Boss and the end of the dungeon and save your generic fantasy kingdom" that had been the staple in the all but dead Western RPG market at that time.

As well, for fucks sake, FFVII is not the best Final Fantasy, it's pure anime schlock. I love it, don't get me wrong, I play it every year, but all you hammering fanfolk drive me up the fucking wall. Cloud is an annoying fuckwad, the game is so poorly translated the story barely makes sense and Aeris is personally responsible for introducing the annoying ideal japanese girl stereotype into gaming. Final Fantasy VI is the best Final Fantasy, period, cleverest battle system, best characters, coolest world and best overall plot, even if it's a little dated.

The best JRPG series is Suikoden (or Mother, but I haven't played Mother 1 or 3, I'm sure they're brilliant, but until Nintendo stops being stupid and releases them here... I got nothing) because it eschews saving the world for political stories that always hit the main characters on a personal level. That and you get to build a castle and recruit an army. And Lucca Blight is the best RPG villain ever.

Unfortunately the JRPG genre has seriously stagnated, we get the same type of hero facing the same type of save the world situation and it REALLY needs some reinvigoration. JRPG's could also take a note from WRPG's and seriously up the immersion/interaction factor with a story that players have a little more influence over and a less overtly jarring method of fighting like the battle screen. However all RPG's still sell like hotcakes in Japan Proper so this is unlikely to ever change. I'll probaly keep buying them as well.

In a friendlier note everyone who suggested Mecha RPG's NEEDS to play the following games...

Front Mission 4: Easy to find and plays out like an awesome Mecha Anime, find it... NOW!

Xenogears: Sort of like EVA in Videogame Form... poorly translated and some symbolism falls REALLY flat, second disc sucks but it's still exciting.

Xenosaga 3: Just read a Synopsis of 1 and 2, 3 is the best game in the series, you get awesome mech battles, some truly grand moments, and a pretty good story. It also moves at an absolutely breakneck pace.

EDIT:

Also stop saying Tales of Symphonia is a great RPG, it's not, it's okay and the main character is a fuckwad. It's only good if you've never played any other games. That Tales series hasn't altered its basic construction since the SNES generation, but all of you have never played any other tales games so you wouldn't know that. Learn the definition of context, in CONTEXT... Tales of Symphonia is pretty damn bland.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Xenogears: Sort of like EVA in Videogame Form...

Down to running out of money halfway through and completely arsing up the ending (and this time they didn't get a movie to actually put an ending on it). And having a slavish following of people who claim it's the best thing since toast despite not actually being as clever as it thinks it is.

 

[ZantetsukenQ]

This thread screams FFVII (something which I would advocate a remake of, curse my fanboy-ism). But thinking about it more carefully, I think the Bahumat lagoon for the Snes needs a remake. What a great game. You have characters to control and their Dragons! The feeding and evolution system of said dragons was superb.

 

[Syntax Error]

I suggested (heck, posted) an FFVII demake in these parts once, want me to post it again?

I played Xenosaga 1-3, too bad they didn't follow through to 4-6. Albedo is probably the best mad man in videogames, second only to Kefka (seriously, he makes his own head explode and grows it back, laughing all the while).

We should do a Xenogears retrospective one of these days (though I haven't played it). It was once considered the one of the best RPG's in its time, let's see how it holds up.