Idea: RPG shift

[heliosa]

Listen. I have a idea. Perhaps we could get New Classic to implement this to a certain degree in his RPG.

 

[Baby Tea]

The problem I have with the Elder Scrolls games is that you're forced to make a character before you really know what each skill does and how useful it is for how you want to play, and once you've made your character, you're pretty much stuck with those skills. For example, when I first started Oblivion, I chose the Archer class, because I wanted to use bows, but have some swordfighting abilities as a backup, and that's what the game recommended. What I ended up with was a character with Blade, Blunt and Hand to Hand as core skills, and ended up finding levelling difficult because I never used maces or got into fistfights, but by this point I was stuck with it. I've also had characters with Athletics as a core skill, which ended up being completely useless for the most part. There's really no room to experiment, and you're stuck into a particular avenue of playing whether you like it or not.

Also, from an immersion standpoint, how do I have these skills before the game starts? I'm just some random farmhand/prisoner/other RPG cliché, thrust into an impossible situation... except I've apparently spent years learning to create fire from my fingertips, and I can shoot a gnat's genitals off from 100 yards... wait, what?

But the beauty of the Elder Scrolls games is that you can make your OWN class! And none of it is too convoluted for you to now know what you want. I want to use a sword: Blade. I want to use archery: Bow. I want to be sneaky: Sneak. I want to jump high: Acrobatics. etc.

I feel for you in your archer example, but I never chose the default classes and always made my own to fit my playing style.

And that's the beauty of the 'accomplishment' system (That's what I'm calling it now, take it or leave it). You would start with a 'blank slate'. A sort of 'average Joe'. Then how you played obviously would dictate what accomplishments you received.

If I was sneaky and used daggers a lot, then I would get sneaky and dagger related accomplishments thus getting me similar abilities.

If I used magic and archery a lot, then I would unlock THOSE particular accomplishments.

And what I like about adding negative effects onto them, is that then you can't have this crazy, over-all power character. That is one thing I wasn't too crazy about in Elder scrolls. I had a character with every skill at 100 (Yeah, it took me a while...a lot of jumping), and it just seemed silly. I started as a sneaky guy who used mostly bows and illusion magic, and ended up as a demi-god. So far removed from what my character actually was supposed to be (in my mind).

 

[Alex_P]

Who wants to make a pen and paper with this system?

Well, this kind of system has to be tightly integrated with the actual, like, content. After all, a generic set of "accomplishments" wouldn't be very fun, right? Heck, I don't think even a genre-specific set of "accomplishments" would be that great. For best effect you really should write the system and the story at the same time here.

I could see a system for making your own "accomplishment" on the fly. A GM-centric one where the GM doles out all the "accomplishments" as she sees fit would basically be fiat. You can slap that on top of almost any existing system. A more group-centric system where you designate "accomplishments" on the fly... hmm, we already have similar systems, I think: all the stuff based on tags or labels or descriptors, for example.

-- Alex

 

[Baby Tea]

Well, this kind of system has to be tightly integrated with the actual, like, content. After all, a generic set of "accomplishments" wouldn't be very fun, right? Heck, I don't think even a genre-specific set of "accomplishments" would be that great. For best effect you really should write the system and the story at the same time here.

Fair enough. I actually really agree, after reading you post again.

You would need a story of Bioware-type proportions, but that altered based on what you chose or accomplished. Like, for example: There is a big battle between the good guys and bad guys (I'm sure a more clever back story could be thought up, but I'm just generalizing right now).

If you got more combat specific accomplishments, they'd put you in the fray!

If you got more sneaky/orator accomplishments, you'd sneak into the enemy camp to disrupt their ranks by distributing mis-information and such.

If you were more of a magic accomplishment type of character, you'd be placed in a support role, casting spells down on archers and such.

Ehh? And for ONCE I'd like to see a story that changed if you flat out failed a battle or something.

 

[number2301]

Vendetta online has (or at least had) a somewhat similar system, I haven't played it in about a year though. You were allowed to buy certain items only when you had the appropriate licence, to get good mining lasers you have to have the licence, which you gain through mining, same with combat etc.

 

[Doug]

Wall of text

I think you misunderstood his post, he's not specifically talking about having Xbox Live Achievements unlock in game bonuses, simply making the game recongnise things you have done and rewarding you accordingly, rather than using the old fashioned XP and level system used in things like D&D.

Got to agree with you there. "thinking like game developers" was sort of the point. As far as I was aware, this was a "what would you like to see in an RPG" discussion. "Achievments" was just the name we gave to the idea, call it accomplishment if you want some differentiation.

Exactly what I meant, heh.

Picture it more like the Steam Team Fortress Class-specific achievements - they unlock the extra weapons Valve introduced. This encouraged players to try and achieve them, see? Valve also set achievements that would encourage players to change there style and/or prove their ability in mastering a class - hence, being able to use the equally-powerful-but-harder-to-use weapons.

 

[Doug]

Vendetta online has (or at least had) a somewhat similar system, I haven't played it in about a year though. You were allowed to buy certain items only when you had the appropriate licence, to get good mining lasers you have to have the licence, which you gain through mining, same with combat etc.

Possibly! I'll have to have a lookie, heh.

 

[Shellsh0cker]

Well, this kind of system has to be tightly integrated with the actual, like, content. After all, a generic set of "accomplishments" wouldn't be very fun, right? Heck, I don't think even a genre-specific set of "accomplishments" would be that great. For best effect you really should write the system and the story at the same time here.

Fair enough. I actually really agree, after reading you post again.

You would need a story of Bioware-type proportions, but that altered based on what you chose or accomplished. Like, for example: There is a big battle between the good guys and bad guys (I'm sure a more clever back story could be thought up, but I'm just generalizing right now).

If you got more combat specific accomplishments, they'd put you in the fray!

If you got more sneaky/orator accomplishments, you'd sneak into the enemy camp to disrupt their ranks by distributing mis-information and such.

If you were more of a magic accomplishment type of character, you'd be placed in a support role, casting spells down on archers and such.

Ehh? And for ONCE I'd like to see a story that changed if you flat out failed a battle or something.

Now that sounds interesting. on it's own, the idea doesn't sound (to me) like much more than ability-specific leveling (a la Diablo), but if the story adapted to your current skills . . . oh, man, that would be AWESOME.

 

[Alex_P]

There are a few scattered examples of this in Fallout 3: the handful of perks you can collect through in-game events.

Best example is probably the guidebook quest line. You get a different bonus depending on your responses (smart vs. brawny vs. sarcastic, &c.). And there's an alternate ability for crushing Moira's dreams instead of helping her, too.

(The regular stats-and-levels-and-perks system makes it all pretty much moot, of course.)

-- Alex