I would watch a Bond-esque parody/comedy with Aoyade as a super spy, OMG, with Noel as a glamourous Q-type!? All his gadgets being weird fashion items that do weird useless stuff. Im already laughing and its not even real.MrCalavera said:
Idris Elba reportedly being considered for next James Bond
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Second that. Mind you, the only other things I've seen him in were Resident Evil movies, AvP and one Doctor Who story.votemarvel said:
That much was obvious, but it is a rather weird hang-up and assumption to come at this subject from. Like if somebody claimed to me (a UK citizen) that they care deeply for UK citizen's rights and freedoms, but when they mention they like the actor Micheal Caine or the comedian Lenny Henry, my first thought isn't "Hah! I bet that's the only British actor/comedian you know, you uncultured swine! You opinions are now invalidated!" Then proceed to promote my own superior knowledge in the subject by mentioning one other popular actor/comedian with no provocation whatsoever as if it somehow means everything they said they cared about is all now lies. Who worries about living up to that arbitrary standard really? It comes off more as the "virtue-signalling" "gotcha" mindset that the same paragraph seemed to rail against. Almost like a projection. As tends to be the case whenever somebody uses the phrase "virtue-signalling" in a serious context.Eacaraxe said:
Noted.Saelune said:
That said, the rule served a useful purpose. (I should know, I implemented it in the first place.) I don't see a lot of the kind of violation it was intended to prevent anymore. So it might stay gone. Might not. Still TBD.
Also, (and this is for you and everyone else) there's one sheriff in this town. That sheriff is now me. Please don't rules-lawyer me. You won't like me when you rules-lawyer me.
People have a need to do useful stuff. Actors need to act. Considering that any director crazy enough to make Craig their first choice for Bond would likely have a properly mental second choice (Nick Frost, anyone?), I wouldn't blame Craig himself for taking the role or how the role turned out.Saelune said:
As much as? No, no they don't. Certainly not actors as highly paid as Craig. After a point, it is all luxury. No, they don't need a bigger jet, bigger boat, bigger house. Craig has more than enough money to live a good comfy life till he is old and dead. I wont feel bad for him if he sucks at managing his MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.Agent_Z said:
Even if this is true how does this translate to him having pull on the franchise? He's just an actor. If he tried to make the studio change how Bond was written and they pushed back, that means he either gets fired or quits. And then what? They find someone else and continue to write Bond the same way. Because none of this is Craig's fault . He isn't the one writing Bond, his job is to show up on set, read his lines and do his fight and sex scenes. That's it. That's where his job begins and ends.Saelune said:
You don't pay someone a ton of money if you don't want them working for you. You were the one who tried to excuse him cause 'he needs to eat'.Agent_Z said:
Yes, he might get fired or quit...and? I respect integrity. Sometimes actors or other personnel leave a project cause they do not agree with how it is being done.
Actors influence a character atleast equal to the writer. Plenty of characters would not be the same if a different, even equally talented actor were cast in that role.
Movies are a creative field, acting is a creative job. This isn't something mechanical where there is a purely right or wrong way to do it. It is art, for good or for bad.
Honestly, I was on the Elba bandwagon for a long time -- since the potential of a black Bond first came up -- until I really got thinking about the why's and how's of it. Namely, how an Elba Bond would be written, and the potential themes and tenor of Elba Bond movies, and the message Eon would be sending by casting Elba over other black actors who could and certainly would do the role justice in their own ways. More on that in a minute, I want to make my main point relevant to the conversation first.Russ Pitts said:Elba has done a lot of popular genre stuff, so he's top-of-mind for a lot of people. Not sure that equates virtue signaling, but then I often find that when people actually use the term "virtue signaling" what they're trying to say is they don't share the virtue being displayed. ?\_(ツ
When I initially started expressing skepticism of an Elba Bond after Spectre, I actually had Ejiofor in mind, but the interesting thing was I almost never actually got to the point of mentioning which black actor I thought should play Bond, before being called racist almost by default. So, I started digging and discovered a super-common irony, that the people so hyped over the idea of an Elba Bond, were really super hyped over the idea of a black Bond and Elba happened to be the only commonly-known black actor, so stating criticism or skepticism of an Elba Bond was considered criticism or skepticism of a black Bond altogether. The fixation closed people's minds from considering other black British actors, or even the possibility thereof, who might do well in the role, in a stroke of self-defeating irony.
It might well be a dickish way to present the question, but honestly with some of the people with whom I've talked, you need the clue-by-four. Now, the secondary point of why I became skeptical of an Elba Bond after Spectre. This is all a matter of opinion of someone who was born in '80, so my first Bond was Dalton (and I still maintain he was the best Bond after Connery, even if he got the shaft on scripts).
The Craig movies are pretty much the perfect example of how and why the Bond franchise has lost its influence and popularity -- Casino Royale was edgier, grittier, more violent and action-oriented with a grounded plot and focus on personal stakes to compete with the M:I, Jack Ryan, and Bourne movies, that was immensely popular. Then, Eon tried to leverage Casino Royale's popularity into a "truer" Bond movie in Quantum, but only brought in the gimmicky, trope-y shit that was the albatross around the franchise's neck after Dalton to begin with, and that didn't work out as planned. They took Skyfall "back to basics", and even had a "traditional" Bond villain, and it worked. Then, not having learned their lesson, made the same mistakes they made with Quantum, with Spectre -- and somehow, despite having Christoph Fuckin' Waltz as Blofeld, blew it.
Eon wants to make Bond a serious film franchise, and they obviously understand the Bond cliches, tropes, and gimmicks are what make a Bond film, but they don't seem to have picked up on the cliches, tropes, and gimmicks that define a Bond film just don't work in a "serious" movie. Elba is a super-heavyweight character actor who has huge gravitas, and what concerns me is Eon will try to play to this strength to push Bond in a serious direction, but try to leverage Elba's gravitas to proceed full-force with all the gimmicky shit that continues weighing the franchise down -- what they did in Quantum and Spectre, except it fell flat. The only way I could see an Elba Bond working, is if Eon decides to go full Moore/Connery camp, and have Elba playing the straight man to his own movies.
That's where I think Ayoade would make a phenomenal Bond. He'd be the perfect person to reintroduce audiences to Bond as campy, inherently fantastic, fun. Eon wouldn't have to parody itself, just play things completely straight and let the pieces fall together.
What does integrity suddenly have to do with this? When did Craig ever say he had an issue with how Bond was written? Your entire beef with the guy is based on the fact that he didn't push for Bond to be written differently. That's not a lack of integrity, that's Craig not stepping g over the line. Seriously what actor in the entire Bond franchise has done what you're asking of Craig? I get you don't like his Bond or the films he was in but this is ridiculous.Saelune said:
Yes, acting and writing are creative jobs but they're still at the end of the day jobs[\i]. You think these guys are just doing this for free?
I have no idea what you meant with That bit about there not being a right or wrong to do art.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/james-bond-8-actors-who-turned-down-a-licence-to-kill-from-liam-neeson-to-hugh-jackman-10405137.htmlAgent_Z said:
Examples include Clint Eastwood who turned it down cause he felt Bond should stay british, and Hugh Jackman who turned it down cause he did not like the direction Bond was being taken.
This thing just won't die, along with turning Bond into a woman. Stop trying to cram race and gender where they don't belong. Make a BETTER franchise with Idris Elba/a woman. Bond is supposed to be a washed-up "misogynist dinosaur", not a champion of social justice. He's an upper class, privately educated sociopath, and while I can understand them dropping the cigarettes (whether I agree or not, it doesn't change the character) he's also a heavy drinker. He's supposed to be a male power fantasy and I bet 98/100 women would rather watch Daniel Craig as Bond than a female version.
Bond would not be improved by inserting identity politics into it, and in fact would only harm the franchise and the film. I would gladly pay to watch a good spy thriller regardless of actors race or sex, not Bond. This nonsense just keeps coming up so leftists can virtue signal how not-racist they (want others to think they) are.
Bond would not be improved by inserting identity politics into it, and in fact would only harm the franchise and the film. I would gladly pay to watch a good spy thriller regardless of actors race or sex, not Bond. This nonsense just keeps coming up so leftists can virtue signal how not-racist they (want others to think they) are.
There have been reports that the campy Bond is not the Bond that Ian Fleming wanted at all. In fact, the Bond he wrote wasn't fun at all. Fleming's Bond was somewhat morose, not even liking to considered as handsome as a American Film star [https://www.thedailybeast.com/literary-bond-superior-to-movie-version]Eacaraxe said:
Hell, the Movie Bond and Book Bond differ in major ways. First and foremost... The Gadgets. Movie Bond got the gadgets, Book Bond had to make due (same source [https://www.thedailybeast.com/literary-bond-superior-to-movie-version]).
I can see the appeal of a Campy Bond, but maybe after decades of the campy Bond, maybe we deserve equal amount of time as where Fleming originally saw Bond.
And in that case, Elba is still a poor fit for a Fleming Bond if we're talking the strictest sense of the idea. Fleming was Racist, Misogynistic, Homophobic [http://techland.time.com/2008/08/27/the_quantum_of_racist/], the whole deal. If you couldn't gleam that from how he wrote people of color, the titles of his chapters [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2427871/William-Boyd-I-toned-Ian-Flemings-sexist-racist-sadistic-James-Bond.html] might clue you in (Warning, N-word abound!).
It might be interesting to see a Fleming Relic Bond get dusted off and places in the Global world just to see the friction. But with the way the world is going, I think the racists would just praise him and make him another 'hero' to worship.
Saelune said:
I'm talking about guys who actually played Bond not people who were simply offered the role.
Edit: Hell some of the actors who played aren't even British. Including the very first film version of Bond. Should Connery and Brosnan have turned down the role too?
Saelune said:
He sucks because he didn't make the writers change how the character was written?
Seriously, Craig is the only Bond actor I've seen getting crap for this from the fandom. I don't see anyone blaming Brosnan for the crappy writing in his films.