If violent video games were actually making people violent, what would you do?
- Thread starter Dark Knifer
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I would try a lot more pacifist runs on games. Just for the lolz. Imagine becoming the ultimate stealth character in Oblivion or not firing a single shot in Mass Effect. And the God of Wars and Call of Duties? Wouldn't even touch 'em. Not that I really do anyway....
I think his point was that you don't really have a way to test for causation, only correlation on something like this So it would be pretty safe to say that any "proof" we saw would be based on correlation.Jordi said:
The statement is used frequently because people often do equate correlation with causation.... pointing out that it is commonly used doesn't really call its validity into question. The example you gave is a correlative proof, so you just made an ad-hominem statement against him for citing a logical error, then made the same logical error. Uncool man.
If they no-shit proved, which would basically entail having a total understanding of how the human brain works, then violent video games are out. I don't really see how you would argue to keep something around that PROVABLY causes violence. But exiting hypothetical land now, we know that we'll never really be able to prove that, so we're prolly ok =)
I would scream until my hair turns yellow then fly around defending the world from aliens who can blow up several worlds with just their finger. That way I could beat the shit out of people and be the hero. We all know video games are the perfect mirror to reality.
Seriously I doubt my game collection would be the kind of games to make people violent, they're mostly JRPGs. Until I'm able to pick up a sword three times my size I don't think anyone has to worry.
Seriously I doubt my game collection would be the kind of games to make people violent, they're mostly JRPGs. Until I'm able to pick up a sword three times my size I don't think anyone has to worry.
I would say simply this:
If millions of people play violent video games, and violent video games make people violent, why do we not have millions of violent a-holes running rampant in the streets? How about hundreds of thousands? Thousands? Hundreds? No, we have only a few. Those few that had other problems to begin with - had they not been playing video games, they'd probably be setting your neighbors cat on fire or stalking that cute girl that won't go out with him.
"It rubs the lotion on it's skin!"
It's not even the scientists fault, they've mostly just concluded that high levels of excitement create the release of endorphins which can lead to behavior ranging from just being loud, maybe rowdy to perhaps violent if you are already pre-disposed to such a thing. You could link the same thing to sex, football, sky-diving, and pretty much everything else that gets people excited.
*yawn* Next topic.
If millions of people play violent video games, and violent video games make people violent, why do we not have millions of violent a-holes running rampant in the streets? How about hundreds of thousands? Thousands? Hundreds? No, we have only a few. Those few that had other problems to begin with - had they not been playing video games, they'd probably be setting your neighbors cat on fire or stalking that cute girl that won't go out with him.
"It rubs the lotion on it's skin!"
It's not even the scientists fault, they've mostly just concluded that high levels of excitement create the release of endorphins which can lead to behavior ranging from just being loud, maybe rowdy to perhaps violent if you are already pre-disposed to such a thing. You could link the same thing to sex, football, sky-diving, and pretty much everything else that gets people excited.
*yawn* Next topic.
I would laugh. Heartily. And then wonder why they gave someone who got their degree from Fisher Price enough money to do such a study. I would then go back to my regularly scheduled program.
Well, obviously there would be a strong case for banning violent games, and making Viva Pinata and SimCity compulsory to produce a generation of compassionate, gentle future leaders.
Well quite obviously I would become violent and attack random passersby on the off chance they have an upgrade to one of my weapons or some coins, perhaps even a power up.Dark Knifer said:
OT: I really don't think I would change my lifestyle because a valid study shows a link between the two. I might monitor my emotions while playing a bit more closely, but that is all.
How could you honestly say that? Video games can teach people such good habits.HooterNanny said:
Just look at the GTA series. It teaches people responsibility by getting a job when times are tough, standing up for yourself when others bully you, being diplomatic in tough situations and that hookers better be worth every damn penny you pay them or they get stabbed.
Important life lessons you cannot learn in school.
What example are you talking about? I didn't give an example of a proof. I said "What if video games were actually making people violent?", which is literally the same as "What if video games were causing people to be more violent?". If you're referring to the part of my post you didn't quote: that wasn't mere correlation either, but I said that it could be possible that games only cause an effect in some people.MartialArc said:
I'm not questioning the general validity of the correlation != causation statement, I'm observing that it is often used when it shouldn't be. Like here. Very often researchers go out of their way to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) causation, because they know about this shit. Sometimes they won't, so it is always good to keep an eye on it, but not every correlation is not causation. And if you don't know anything about the research that was done (like in this hypothetical situation) it is bullshit to just assume it was wrong.
What I'm seeing a lot is that people who don't like the results of a study start yelling "correlation != causation" without even looking at the research methodology. And I suspect that a lot of people genuinely believe that that isn't even necessary either, because according to them (and apparently you; see below) it's impossible to prove causation anyway.
It is not as hard as you seem to think to scientifically prove causation. It most certainly doesn't entail having to know how the brain works. All you have to do is make sure that your test and control groups are chosen independently from the variable. For instance, if you take a random sample of people, and randomly let half of them play a game, but not the other half and it turns out that the game-players are more aggressive afterwards, you have totally just shown that that game in that population caused more short term aggression than whatever the hell the control group was doing. Whether you can extrapolate the results to the entire population, all games, and the long term is a different matter that has nothing to do with causation versus just correlation.MartialArc said:
As for the real topic of the thread: I said I would probably keep playing games unless I actually started to notice a lot of adverse effects. Sometimes we do stuff that we know is bad for us because we like it.
I didn't go into whether I would be able to, because I can see such news being devastating to the video games industry. Especially a couple of years ago I would have been certain that in this case video games would quickly be outlawed. Now I'm not so sure, because of the latest Supreme Court decision, which seems to say that games get First Amendment rights (if I'm not mistaken), which protects them a little better. Obviously a proof that they would cause aggression might change things, but then again, smoking and alcohol have adverse effects too and they are not illegal. It will depend on how serious the aggression increase is, and the percentage of people it affects, but I think that the longer it takes for this "discovery" to be made, the more we are moving towards a time where more people in power like video games and don't consider it their go-to scapegoat when things go wrong.
I'd wonder how it is that I haven't killed everyone around me, because I've been playing violent games since Karate Champ was the "hot new thing" and I've never so much as been in a fistfight.
Considering I've been goofing off with the Anti-Material Rifle in New Vegas for the past few weeks, I'd probably be up in some high building with a rifle yelling "BOOM HEADSHOT" like a maniac.
Buuuuut, since I'm a NORMAL person, I laugh at the very idea of video games causing widespread homicide.
Buuuuut, since I'm a NORMAL person, I laugh at the very idea of video games causing widespread homicide.
Well, while I don't disagree that games can teach good habits, playing devils advocate, I can say from the other side of the argument, that it also teaches bad habits (No, I don't have any examples off the top of my head).Wushu Panda said:
Anyway, that's not what I meant with my comment, all I meant, was that violent video games can cause SOME people to be violent
