"Illusions" That You Would Like Dispelled For the Good of Gaming

[Danbo Jambo]

I want to see great games. But with each passing year I'm having my hopes dashed more & more and, having reflected on this, it often seems down to the industry buying into "illusions" that certain things are great, when IMO they're not.

My examples are as follows:

Skyrim: "It's a great RPG and open world games are good."

It's not a bad game. I enjoyed it, and would rate it 7.5/10. But it's not an RPG, and the open world aspect of it doesn't need to be included in proper RPG's which are based around tight storytelling, to "better" them. It's a game for messing about in. It's a game for tossing it off in. It's not a game to grab you by the nuts and yank you into another realm by them. RPGs don't need to be open world to be great, it's all about emotion and the journey you undertake, not the boxes which open world games pride themselves in ticking.

GTA: "Such epic storytelling is awesome"

Well, it may be, but the game is just no longer fun to play. It's "meh" at best, and all the humour in the world can't make me wish I was playing Saints Row 4 instead. It just feels so detached and half-arsed in terms of gameplay.

I know this is subjective and down to opinion, but I'd like to hear some of yours.

Thanks.

 

[tippy2k2]

You know, the title would make a bit more sense if you just called this thread what it is:

Spoiler

We've had plenty of threads like this; no one will judge you for making another one.

OT:
Skyrim
I 100% agree with you on Skyrim. The stealth system made the game so broken that there was no challenge at all as the bad guys would get picked off one by one with the others thinking that the guy who they were just talking to now has an arrow through their neck must have "just been my imagination".

Sport Games are not "real games" or are for casuals only
Listen, people don't like EA and for understandable reasons. Many people don't like sports and that's OK too. But as soon as someone claims that I can't be a real gamer for liking sport games (or I'm "less of a gamer for being a sports-sheep") or claiming that only casuals like sport games is the second that I can't take anything they have to say seriously anymore.

It's OK for you not to like sport games. I have no problem with that. But to insinuate that I'm less of a gamer for liking the complexity of sport games and the chance of failure that many games don't offer because you don't like sport games is just pure stupidity.

Witcher 2 is a great game!
Witcher 2...what do we do with you? While the game is mainly on the positive side for many people, it seems to be a game that you absolutely hate or you absolutely love. I for one absolutely hated it [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.403641-What-games-have-you-given-up-on-due-to-difficulty#16689584] and because it's my opinion, I'm right! Take that!

 

[3asytarg3t]

Narrative and character development in PC Games have always been over rated. Anything held up as the best in a decade for PC games fails to stand up to a comparison of even an average novel or movie for the same time period.

So, if you want to dispel a myth, think a bit grander in scope.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Well, I know this is gonna be a controversial thread!

Anyways, on to some I'd like to see, even if they're not universal.

Dark Souls 1&2: "It's a really hard game, therefore its a great game!"

I guess this is a callback to old 80s and 90s arcade games that milked quarters out of you. And it was either spend $20 trying to beat Dragon's Lair or play with a Bop-It. So I guess I understand the nostalgia of wanting to play a hard game, but holy hell guys/gals! Know the difference between a challenging, yet rewarding game, and a trial by fire for your patience. I consider it lucky I don't have a pet, because playing Dark Souls makes me want to kick a puppy.

Half-Life 2: Gordon Freeman is the best character, ever, EVER. And Half-Life is the best game ever!

Is it fair to say Gordon Freeman even has a character? I'm not convinced. As someone who never talks, or shows any emotion, I don't think its fair to think of Freeman as anything other than a tool. I mean you could convince me the Doom Marine has more personality than Gordon! His face at least grimaces when he gets hurt.
As far as Half-Life 2 as a game...its decent. I played it once when it came out. No real desire to play it again. There was just nothing that jumped out at me and made me go 'Holy Shit! I wanna see that again!' then reload a previous checkpoint just to play that last bit over. Half Life 2 is fine. Its decent. It passes the test, but that's all it does.
A solid C+ game.

Silent Hill 2: This is the scariest game of all time.

I'v seen this one a few times, notably from Yatzhee and Jim Sterling. Look, I played most of the Silent Hill games(I think I missed a OS one), and yes SH2 is good. But I actually found it funny! I laughed at most of the cut-scenes, and the enemies looked like something you'd see out of an Ed Wood movie! And I thought it was all a great laugh! I kept looking to see if I could see a zipper on Pyramid Head's helm.

But I keep reading that's its so dark, and moody and the isolation gets to you.

What isolation? I ran into dorky people doing whacky things all the time! One of them, the stripper-not-wife woman, followed me around! And the parts that were supposed to be scary were so dark I couldn't tell you what happened. There was a boss fight in a hospital with something hanging from the ceiling. No idea what it was. Like, at all! I just kept putting shotgun shells into it until whatever it was died.
I always thought Silent Hill 3 was way scarier! Even with the cult malarkey, having the protagonist be a scared teen girl is way darker than being a random yahoo like James was. For all we know James is an ex-Navy Seal with a degree in demonology and the occult, and he thinks Silent Hill is a paradise!

Bioshock 2: Its a terrible game!

I mean it wasn't a great game. Easily the worst of the Bioshock trilogy. But, come on people! Even the worst Bioshock game is league above 90% of the games out there. What, Assassin's Creed: Unity is above Bioshock 2? Gone Home?! Dying Light?! Hyrule Warriors?! Even Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel has a better rep that Bioshock 2, and Borderlands was a fucking map pack at full price!
Look, there's plenty to not like in Bioshock 2. But for all its polish, atmosphere, sold control, game mechanics and far above par writing, if it still gets lampooned, then we seriously need to look at the so-called great games going around and ask some pretty hard questions of them.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Sure, I'll play.

I'd like the illusion dispelled that gaming is a hermetic medium that can only be properly appraised, criticized and appreciated by True Gamers, who can only be appointed and validated by Other True Gamers. I'd like the illusion dispelled that there is a right and wrong way to design a game, and that certain styles of game are fundamentally "better" or "more a GAME" than others. I'd like the illusion dispelled that "casual" and "hardcore" gamers are fundamentally at loggerheads, and that supporting or enjoying one makes you an inherent enemy of the other.

Lots of stuff, really. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[sXeth]

That storytelling and characters are a pivotal requirement of a great game.

Storyline is the garnish on your burger. Sure it adds to it, but if the burger is a mushy undercooked pile of sawdust, msg, and food coloring, its not going to be saved by some ketchup on top. I see so many reviews of games where they're docking 2-3 (or even more) points out of 10 for things that aren't even *game*play, while games that could be played on a DVD player net 9s and 10s. Having both together is nice, but the game side of games seems to be ever-more pushed into the background while a bunch of people try and lump them in with movies/books.

EDIT : WTF is with those new captchas. It took 8 tries before one finally worked.

 

[StriderShinryu]

A few that are mixed between both industry misconception and gamer misconception:

Making money is bad.
Games are still a relatively young medium in an industry focused very heavily on the initial sale. Games are also very very expensive to make these days. Developers and publishers are still stumbling around trying to figure out ways to supplement their income. That doesn't mean that game companies don't sometimes do scummy things to make money but it's a mistake to instantly assume things like DLC, episodic content, etc. are bad. They may be used poorly in some cases, maybe even in most cases, but the bad comes in the way they are used not necessarily the actual method itself.

Playing competitively is wrong.
Some games are just plain designed for competitive play. Playing those games with an eye on getting better and winning is the way they are meant to be played. Sure you can have some fun playing them in the unintended manner, but that doesn't mean people who are playing them correctly are wasting their time or are somehow ruining the experience for others.

Videogames need to be "fun" and have traditional mechanics.
"Videogame" is basically an outdated term that has hung on because it's familiar and has been around for awhile. Videogames in reality, however, are a still growing and evolving artistic entertainment medium that includes a huge variety of experiences linked only through their interactive nature, and sometimes that interactivity can even come via emotional connection as opposed to traditional mechanics. Videogames don't need to be traditionally gamey or "fun" to be good. There aren't really any real rules for what needs to be in a videogame.

Games need to be for everyone.
Just because something isn't to your taste doesn't make it bad, and even things that are largely considered not particularly good may still be enjoyed by some people. Games should be made based on what the developer wants to make. Sometimes that is a commercially tuned widely accessible experience, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's for an audience of traditional videogame fans, sometimes it's not. That's all fine. Just play what interests you and don't play what doesn't. Once again, there are no real rules for what needs to be in a videogame.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

GTA: "Such epic storytelling is awesome"

Well, it may be, but the game is just no longer fun to play. It's "meh" at best, and all the humour in the world can't make me wish I was playing Saints Row 4 instead. It just feels so detached and half-arsed in terms of gameplay.

I know this is subjective and down to opinion, but I'd like to hear some of yours.

Thanks.

I would call the GTA series schizophrenic: The GTA games add in a bunch of stuff that you CAN do. The mechanics are there for flying around, driving around, deep-sea diving, etc but Final Fantasy III and V taught us the very important lesson that while Jacks of All Trade can be fine all-rounders, they're not as effective at fighting as a warrior or, as effective at magic as a proper Mage. If I want really good third-person shooting, I don't play GTA. If I want really good driving, I don't play GTA. If I want a really good dog-fight or, flight sim, I don't play GTA. What's worse is when the tutorial missions are mandatory...this is why I haven't beaten San Andreas or V; I want to rob banks, not race people or go to flight school.

---

This isn't just an issue I have with gaming but entertainment in general: I'm not playing an action-blockbuster for the romance. I'm playing Halo because I want to murder everything that isn't human, not because I care about the relationship between MC and Cortana. I'm not playing The Force Unleashed because I'm entranced by the romantic chemistry between Juno and Starkiller: It's because I want to throw a Tie Fighter at a group of Stormtroopers. Shut the Hell up about your dead wife Dom, you have a Chainsaw Machine Gun and bondage-themed Morlocks to use it on so get chopping asshole! What do you mean Anya is supposed to be MY romantic interest?! The only romantic interest that I thought worked was Jenny in The Darkness. You know what, I think my main issue is with bad story-telling...but still, romantic plots are second to time travel when it comes to shitty plots.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Skyrim: "It's a great RPG and open world games are good."

GTA: "Such epic storytelling is awesome"

I agree with both. Most gamers don't even know what an RPG is anymore. And GTA's gameplay is very outdated and I don't even think the writing is good either.

Sport Games are not "real games" or are for casuals only

Agree here as well. A well-made sports game is a really good video game as most sports are already very good games. There's a lot of intricacies to baseball, football, etc. I'm not a fan of Madden because I think it's a bad football game. And EA with 101 values for every slider makes their sports games such a ***** to get playing right even if you can get them to play right.

Dark Souls 1&2: "It's a really hard game, therefore its a great game!"

The Souls games are even hard to begin with. All you need is patience and caution. I played through entire dungeons + boss fights without dying once with no walkthrough. All you need to do is pull 1 enemy at a time to you (with say arrows) and fight 1v1 all game. There's only a few bosses that were actually difficult. Give any normal AAA game Dark Souls' checkpoint system and they would be harder than Dark Souls; Tomb Raider would be harder than Dark Souls if the only checkpoints were the campsites for example. I prefer skill-based difficulty.

 

[Zhukov]

Skyrim
I 100% agree with you on Skyrim. The stealth system made the game so broken that there was no challenge at all as the bad guys would get picked off one by one with the others thinking that the guy who they were just talking to now has an arrow through their neck must have "just been my imagination".

While I agree with your judgement of Skyrim, I'm willing to forgive the broken stealth for its comedic value.

- From stealth, cast a fury spell. The enemy find themselves attacked by one of their own who they promptly hack to death.
- Still from stealth, cast raise dead. The enemy find themselves attack by their dead friend a second time and hack him to death a second time.
- "Must have been my imagination!"

 

[Rebel_Raven]

That the checklist of "straight white male" is all that will sell, and is the only thing worth really supporting.

That the audience can't grow.

I guess that's about it for me, really. Prolly more that I just haven't thought of.

 

[Spider RedNight]

You aren't a real gamer if you only play on easy mode. - Yeah okay. I don't have an impressive collection, I can't discuss a story at length with someone, I suppose I don't even basically play, is that it? I hate the consensus of "hard mode = only way to ACTUALLY game"

 

[Fox12]

You aren't a real gamer if you only play on easy mode. - Yeah okay. I don't have an impressive collection, I can't discuss a story at length with someone, I suppose I don't even basically play, is that it? I hate the consensus of "hard mode = only way to ACTUALLY game"

Yeah, weirdly enough, Dark Souls actually eased my opinion on easy modes. If a games idea of "hard" is to give an enemy more health, then what's the point? That's just an attempt to try my patience. I may as well play on easy/medium if I'm playing for the story. There's no shame in that anymore.

 

[Dalisclock]

You aren't a real gamer if you only play on easy mode. - Yeah okay. I don't have an impressive collection, I can't discuss a story at length with someone, I suppose I don't even basically play, is that it? I hate the consensus of "hard mode = only way to ACTUALLY game"

Normally I play on normal, but there's been a few games where I got so annoyed and frustrated I went "Fuck it" and switched to Easy Mode for the rest of the game. I still enjoyed the games, more so because I didn't have to fight the same battle 15 times and still die, destroying my thumbs in the process.

The difficulty settings are there for the player, to use the one that they enjoy the game most at. If a game is naturally easy or hard, that's part of the appeal of the game.

A long time ago I figured out that nobody cares what difficulty you beat the game at, or how you played, or if you got 100%. Those who would think less of you because "You're supposed to/you're not supposed to/you're not a REAL gamer if..." aren't people whose opinion matter anyway.

 

[Haerthan]

Casuals aren't real gamers.That is my pet peeve. Or that visual novels/text-based/adventure games aren't real games. That really gets on my nerves. We all play games no matter what, where, how, when.

SO yea.

Captcha: how about lunch? No. Absolutely not.

 

[EbonBehelit]

Dark Souls 1&2: "It's a really hard game, therefore its a great game!"

I guess this is a callback to old 80s and 90s arcade games that milked quarters out of you. *snip* Know the difference between a challenging, yet rewarding game, and a trial by fire for your patience.

See, here's the thing: I would almost universally call the Souls series 'challenging, yet rewarding', since in almost every situation dying is the player's own damn fault. Sure, sometimes you end up dying a few times before learning how to beat a boss, but the games never really punish you particularly severely for failure.

Arcade games on the other hand were designed to punish you for failure by taking more of your money to complete the game - and why would you make a game fair if you can increase profits by making it unfair?

Besides that point, the difficulty of the Souls games isn't what makes them good specifically. The world, lore, and combat mechanics are what make them good - at least in my eyes.

Bioshock 2: Its a terrible game!

I've heard that Bioshock 2 actually has better mechanics than the original though.
Not that I'd know for sure though, since Bioshock 1 was so boring that I never bothered even looking at the sequels.

 

[Spider RedNight]

Normally I play on normal, but there's been a few games where I got so annoyed and frustrated I went "Fuck it" and switched to Easy Mode for the rest of the game. I still enjoyed the games, more so because I didn't have to fight the same battle 15 times and still die, destroying my thumbs in the process.

The difficulty settings are there for the player, to use the one that they enjoy the game most at. If a game is naturally easy or hard, that's part of the appeal of the game.

A long time ago I figured out that nobody cares what difficulty you beat the game at, or how you played, or if you got 100%. Those who would think less of you because "You're supposed to/you're not supposed to/you're not a REAL gamer if..." aren't people whose opinion matter anyway.

I get that; I played through the entirety of Bioshock Infinite on Normal Mode only to get REALLY frustrated at the very last segment of the game so... I switched it to easy and only got credit for Easy Mode. I... haven't played it since because I felt like I put all that effort into it only to fail at the very end.

I have "friends" who brag about playing through Mass Effect on insanity mode for like the fourth time and how it's just soooo easy for them and to me, it just comes across as pretentious. I don't judge a gamer on their mettle in simulated combat.

Yeah, weirdly enough, Dark Souls actually eased my opinion on easy modes. If a games idea of "hard" is to give an enemy more health, then what's the point? That's just an attempt to try my patience. I may as well play on easy/medium if I'm playing for the story. There's no shame in that anymore.

I agree and to me, tedious battles and forced strategy just ruin the immersion; the hero's the hero, he's not supposed to fail eighteen times! If that means I'm playing on easy because I hate fighting, then so be it but I think it's petty to judge someone's gaming ability based on what difficulty they play on if they can choose.

 

[Yan007]

We need more women/female protagonists in the video game industry.

As I don't think one's gender/race/religion... matters as long as the end result is good, I'm not going to fight for representation in the industry. People who make good games should make them - not females, not blacks, not whites, not males. Also, the majority of games have male protagonists and nudity because that's what the majority of the consumers want. Gotta pay the bills. As long as there is no law to forbid female protagonists from being made I say we should let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

The illusion that Demon's Souls doesn't exist and the series starts with Dark Souls.

 

[Vault101]

[sub/] ohhh boy! an opinion venting thread[/sub]

the Femenazi's and SJW's are not out to take away your games...

(hey if I didn't go there somone else would)