I'm beginning to hate Valve.
- Thread starter Jacco
- Start date
I do like valve, I actually do, but I can understand the hate as of late. If we don't include Dota 2 (which I don't consider a valve game), the last game to come out of Valve was CS: Global Offensive, which was a year ago now. They've talked about a "source 2" engine with nothing to show, nothing no announce, nothing to say and it bugs quite a few people. I don't care if they announce a new half-life just as long as they announce SOMETHING! Valve is a game developer first as foremost (I hope). It was what steam was originally designed for, and now they do nothing. I can see why OP hates valve. They aren't doing anything (promises or not). All they do is run steam, and in my opinion, that's not valve the developers, that's valve the corporation. We still hate those, right guys?
edit: rereading a few posts, I just wanted to say one thing.... we don't know if they're not saying anything because they want half life 3 to be perfect. NOTHING has been rumored, NOTHING has been announced, and valve has been pretty much at ZERO conventions or conferences for a few years now. As far as we know, the firings we've been hearing about coming from valve are because Gabe wants people to actually work on games again and not twiddle thumbs and get paid for it.
edit: rereading a few posts, I just wanted to say one thing.... we don't know if they're not saying anything because they want half life 3 to be perfect. NOTHING has been rumored, NOTHING has been announced, and valve has been pretty much at ZERO conventions or conferences for a few years now. As far as we know, the firings we've been hearing about coming from valve are because Gabe wants people to actually work on games again and not twiddle thumbs and get paid for it.
I gave examples in a previous post but I'll summarize it. They basically exaggerated Half Life 2's engine and showed things in their tech demos that just weren't true. People tend to look past that (or forget it) just because Half Life 2 was a solid game anyway. They made the bold claim "Half-Life 2 opens the door to a world where the player's presence affects everything around him or her, from the physical environment to the behaviors and even the emotions of both friends and enemies." Last I checked Gordon Freeman was a mute and it had a fairly linear story line. Then there's the one that everybody is most pissed about and that's their claim to release three episodic Half Life 2 games that would be 6-8 months apart from each other. I went more in detail in my previous posts on page eight.bafrali said:
Although I have no hate to Valve because of your mentions, I do hate them because of their casual like 'matchmaking systems' (cs:go, dota2).
Also while their company system works as a whole, I hate the fact there is no PR, forums feel like they are useless and the whole idea with them working on a game as they please feels like they are delivering unfinished games in the release and waiting for patches sometimes feels like ages.
Also while their company system works as a whole, I hate the fact there is no PR, forums feel like they are useless and the whole idea with them working on a game as they please feels like they are delivering unfinished games in the release and waiting for patches sometimes feels like ages.
First of all, They weren't lies. In what other game did you pick up a container with a magnet to crush transhuman alien forces or throw saws around with a zero-point-energy-manipulator? NPC's not reacting? Guess the crane operator lady who was trying to convince me to get back on the car when I jumped on the sand was just pretending to be frustrated. Or the rebels who were in awe of my glorious presence were just pretending to give a shit. At nowhere at that sentence did I see open world gaming nor having choice in your interaction with the NPC's. Not much room for interpretation there.LOLITRON said:
Also they strictly said that they were PLANNING on releasing episodic content without giving any release date so it is not an act of deception on their part. What would they gain by lying about release dates anyway? I don't see them accepting pre-orders or building up hype for the game with trailers. If anything it is the community (and ironically outsiders) who won't shut the fuck up about the game.
See it was so easy. And all I had to do was giving facts.
Thank you for the compliment.LOLITRON said:The product isn't delayed; it doesn't exist. They haven't made any mention to the public that I'm aware of that they're working on it or even plan to work on it. That said, terrible comparison. An author can hardly be compared to an entire corporation that's sole purpose is to develop and publish videogames. That's like comparing a school bully to the Nazis or Gandhi to PETA. Valve does in fact have a responsibility to please its consumers and while they're not obligated to work on whatever gamers want them to, it doesn't give them a free pass to lie to their market base -- just like EA, Activision, and every other corporation out there don't deserve a free pass.Grey Carter said:
The majority of people in this thread seem to argue that Valve is above this responsibility merely because they're Valve and they're known for releasing solid and bug free products. While I agree that's true, they've clearly made several promises in the past (not just with the release of Episode 3) that they haven't kept or even lied about (see my previous post for examples). That's something that anybody has the right to be upset about even if they do have a big track record of taking forever with their games (exceptions being L4D 2 and Portal 2).
Again, there is no confirmation of a future Episode 3 or Half Life 3 nor is there any indication that they're working on it. To be upset because they're not doing or planning to do what they said they were going to makes perfect sense to me. However, saying a corporation has no responsibility to keep their promises because they aren't anyone's ***** doesn't make sense to me. At all.
Edit:
On another note, love your webcomic. Thanks for all the laughs.
Your points about the tech demo of Half Life 2 is, frankly, ridiculous. Demos, betas, etc are always versions of a work in progress. The fact some elements displayed in the demo didn't make it into the final product doesn't mean Valve "lied" about their product. Game assets get cut all the time, it's part of the development process.
As for Ep 3 or Half Life 3, unless you've given Valve money for those products, which you have not, you have no right to complain about how long they're taking. You paid for previous Half Life games and that's what you got. Just because you bought the first game in a potential series does not, in any way shape or form, entitle you to a continuous supply of sequels. As a customer, you are entitled to exactly what you pay for, no more, no less.
Note: I'm not saying Valve are beyond reproach. I've taken issue with a few things they've done in the past year. But ever since Mass Effect 3, gamers have been vastly overestimating what they're entitled to when they buy a game. They've also been quick to label developer comments or tech demos "promises," which they aren't.
Agree to disagree then; I find it dishonest. While I think you make an excellent point, showing superior AI and an exaggerated physic engine seems like more than just stuff that got cut from the final product. It seems to me, though myself nor anyone else can never prove it, like false marketing.Grey Carter said:
I agree with almost everything you said, but I think they do you have a right to complain about the public lie that was told as to how long it would take. Consider this (terrible) metaphor: you go on a date, things go extraordinarily well, and the girl says she'll give you a call in the next few days to plan the second one. Instead, she gets back to you after two weeks. While she's not your girlfriend and you have no right to complain, you'd still be pissed right? You had a great time, kept your schedule open, heard nothing and probably just assumed she hated you. Valve is that woman, except she still hasn't (and might never) call you back. I don't blame anyone for being pissed at them for that, though they should definitely move the fuck on.
I can't argue against your personal experience of the game; I can only tell you mine and when I played it I didn't find the AI to be intelligent at all -- they were certainly nowhere close to the intelligence that the tech demo demonstrated. I also found the physics to be very gimmicky until the very end when the gravity gun gets an upgrade. That was just my experience; I apologize if it contradicts your own.bafrali said:
We can play semantics with what was said forever. I'm only giving my interpretation of Gave Newell's own words in a 2006 interview with PCGamer. You can find it here: http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/2/2d/HL2_Episodes_-_PC_Gamer%2C_May_2006.jpg
The wait for Half Life 3 isn't on my list of things I dislike about Valve, but there are several things I dislike about Valve, the way they handle Steam and user policies, their customer support, their entire business plan and the fact that it hardly includes making games anymore.
And that none of their few games released in the last 5 years has been any decent in my opinion.
And of course, the fact that the company is blindly glorified - it is, there is no denying it.
And that none of their few games released in the last 5 years has been any decent in my opinion.
And of course, the fact that the company is blindly glorified - it is, there is no denying it.
You shouln't mix being disapointed with being lied to then. It is not their fault that somebody out there have a different vision from theirs and it can't/shouldn't be interpreted as a malice on their part. There is no direct misdirection or blatantly backwards design choices. In short, no lies.LOLITRON said:
PS: My name isn't spelled like that.
Also: What's all this I hear about Valve always release bugfree products? Anyone remember the release of Half Life 2? Or the first Half Life, for gods sake, where you would spectacularly get stuck in an elevator half the times you entered one. And that wasn't some infrequent glitch caused by certain hardware configurations - it was a problem on pretty much every instance of the game until they fixed it.
If I remember correctly, Steam was originally created to roll out bug updates.
If I remember correctly, Steam was originally created to roll out bug updates.
bafrali said:
lol Whoops. Like I said, nobody can prove Valve's intentions. All I can say is that the tech demos they released to the public aren't indicative of the actual game and almost everything Gabe said in the PC Gamer interview turned out to be untrue. I guess "lie" is too strong of a word since it's likely what was said wasn't intentionally wrong, but I still find all of their old tech demos to be dishonest.
Update: According to Valve's Chris Bokitch in response to other people with the same complaints I had, "The demo was never meant to be interactive - it was a rolling movie showing off part of what we wanted the HL2 play experience to be like."
Well it is your privilage to be skeptical but I don't think It would quite hold up in court. I honestly believe that Valve's intent was not to oversell their game and it is apperant that they are trying to mend this past mistake by keeping their silence about HL3 untill they have something concrete that wouldn't give much room for wild speculation. It doesn't seem to be working, judging by the lenght of this topic but at least their stance seems to be clear as far as promotion is concerned.LOLITRON said:
i think valve will call it, half life 3: episode 1.
and it will finish with half life 3: episode 2.
i must be losin my mind.
and it will finish with half life 3: episode 2.
i must be losin my mind.
Well, I don't have any intention of taking them to court, but I don't see how a scripted movie that's labelled as a tech demo to the public gets a free pass when it's Valve doing it. Recently Gearbox was found guilty of the same thing and all hell broke loose. The difference? Half Life 2 was a great game and ACM was a terrible one. Maybe Grey Carter is right and all the haters are acting too entitled. However, I don't think I'm being entitled for just wanting honesty and transparency from a company that makes and sells videogames.bafrali said:
I think all anyone wants is just one person from Valve to say "We're working on it" or "We're not working on it." Even a "We'll get to it when we feel like it now shut the fuck up" would be something. They haven't said a word and it's gotten so bad that people are feeling like they're being strung along for no reason. Actually come to think of it, they did that April Fools prank where they put Episode 3 up in Steam store as a joke. They actually trolled their entire fanbase before even saying a word about the actual thing. Don't you think that's kind of a shitty thing to do? Obviously there was no malice behind it, but I don't see the point in staying absolutely quiet about something that may or may not exist for over five years. Maybe I will in the future.
I'm almost certain the point you're making is that Half-Life is a pretty dope game. I agree, it was pretty dope.
I wonder when, or if at this point, they release Half-Life 3, that they use the slogan, "Sequel to the highest rated shooter ever" like Bioshock did.
I also enjoyed other Valve games and recently got into Steam. All pretty awesome, so not much to complain about.
I wonder when, or if at this point, they release Half-Life 3, that they use the slogan, "Sequel to the highest rated shooter ever" like Bioshock did.
I also enjoyed other Valve games and recently got into Steam. All pretty awesome, so not much to complain about.
What, like this [http://youtu.be/0d6yBHDvKUw]?LOLITRON said:
Of course they're working on *something*. But the HL brand isn't just about continuing plot threads anymore, these games are famous for being quantum leaps ahead of the status quo. Making that happen was toil before, and it will take more toil in the future. What's PR and hype got to do with it? We'll know something soon as there's something worth knowing.
Completely agree, some of the best video game companies in the world pull the same crap that Valve does. Blizzard always has the approach of "its done when we say its done", Bioware too. Valve games are notorious for being late, but they always end up being award winning, fan raising, epic games. I myself don't care if it takes another 5 years for Episode 3 to come out as long as they do what they have been doing from the start. Making the game as perfect as possible.Jimmy T. Malice said:
I will say though that enough time has passed where its time to make the next Half Life on another engine. Half Life 2 is beautiful, but its starting to show its age.