I'm not worried about Mass Effect 3 :)

[Mysten]

I was never worried about Mass Effect 3.

I can't get behind the whole "Dragon Age 2 was the worst game ever and Bioware are now suddenly the worst developer on the face of the Earth and shouldn't be trusted to make another game again despite the long history of producing acclaimed titles" argument either.

I just finished my first playthrough of Dragon Age 2 yesterday (a little late to the party, I know.) It was nothing short of amazing. I can get behind the shameless recycling of game spaces but that was honestly my one and only complaint about the entire game. The combat was great, the characters were all interesting and believable, the rivalry between the Mages and the Templars provided a truly morally grey story with several dialogue options that honestly left me scratching my head as to which road took me to the moral high ground and every single bit of it was incredibly beautiful to look at (even the giant spiders which, as an arachnophobe, I didn't exactly want to look at.)

Hell, I even think Dragon Age 2 should be something to take inspiration from for Mass Effect 3. Friendship/Rivalry bars? Great. Less linear skill trees? Yes please. Cross class combos for weapon, biotic and tech skills? Have my money right now.

 

[Souplex]

Someone explain to me how the Reapers got to Earth and why they are even invading it in the first place. Earth is deep within the Mass Effect relay system. In order to reach it, you have to go through a bunch of other relays which come from the Citadel. So if the Reapers are attacking Earth, that means they went past the Citadel and nobody cared. I'm not sure how that works out.

But wait, why are they even attacking Earth? Earth isn't of strategic value. Sure it may be the human species stronghold, but attacking it first just means you give the other species ample time to realize what they are doing and gang up on the Reapers. Which is exactly what Shepard is making happen. What happened to attacking the Citadel? They had to go past it to reach Earth, so why didn't they fly in there take control like they normally do? How does taking over earth and broadcasting their presence to the entire galaxy help them at all?

I'm so confused

It's because apparently "Humans are special".
Doesn't gel with ME1, but hey, Bioware's been going in a strange new direction lately.

 

[Haagrum]

Someone explain to me how the Reapers got to Earth and why they are even invading it in the first place. Earth is deep within the Mass Effect relay system. In order to reach it, you have to go through a bunch of other relays which come from the Citadel. So if the Reapers are attacking Earth, that means they went past the Citadel and nobody cared. I'm not sure how that works out.

But wait, why are they even attacking Earth? Earth isn't of strategic value. Sure it may be the human species stronghold, but attacking it first just means you give the other species ample time to realize what they are doing and gang up on the Reapers. Which is exactly what Shepard is making happen. What happened to attacking the Citadel? They had to go past it to reach Earth, so why didn't they fly in there take control like they normally do? How does taking over earth and broadcasting their presence to the entire galaxy help them at all?

I'm so confused

The Reapers built the relays, so it stands to reason that they are not so restricted by the network's confines as other races. ME1 was Plan A. ME2 was Plan B. Arrival was Plan C. The Reapers went to Plan D and foot-slogged to the galaxy instead, thanks to Shepard.

The Reapers have technology well beyond anyone in the galaxy. Their minions have anti-stealth technology that makes the Normandy show up on sensors (which no-one else does), so it stands to reason that they have comparable-level sensor-stealth technology - although it would probably be beneath them to need to use it.

The only person to have had any meaningful success in uniting disparate races against the Reapers is Shepard. He/she's human. Maybe the Reapers are aware of where he/she was? Does it matter how they know or that there's no explanation given (aside from the obvious logical inference that the Reapers monitor organics' communications, as Sovereign did and the geth do)? No - it should be enough that the human race "has the attention of those infinitely [their] greater", to use Harbinger's own words. This interest is probably due in no small part to humanity's role in Mass Effect 1, especially Shepard's.

Also, the ending to ME2 should indicate precisely why the Reapers would be interested in hitting Earth first. Aside from the whole "Shepard is a baby puncher" analogy, that is.

Still confused?

EDIT - Also, nice duck.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Still confused?

Yes, because there's absolutely no logical reason to attack Earth first. I can understand being interested in the human species, but that doesn't mean they have to attack them first. The reason the previous Reaper invasions succeeded was becuase they always took control of the Citadel. The Citadel is what binds all the species of the galaxy together. Without it, they can't reach other, communicate with each other, or do anything else that would require the use of the relay system. By taking control of this, the Reapers ensure that any resistance will be disorganized and confused.

By attacking Earth there making their presence known without doing any of the above. The other species are perfectly capable of forming a retaliation now that they know the Reapers are here. Which is exactly what is happening. Let's just make a list of the effects of both plans;

Attacking the Citadel
-Disrupt communications between species
-Isolate every major system from one another
-Prevent formation of a powerful multi-species retaliation force
-Complete control of the relay network
-More information than they could ever need about each species

Attacking Earth
-Make presence known across the galaxy
-Provoke unified attack from other species
-Make other species aware of danger causing them to fortify their defenses
-Harbinger gets to satisfy his creepy human fetish

Basically, the benefit for plan A are massive compared to plan B. I just don't get why the Reapers would make such a poor decision, unless Harbinger is really stupid and letting his lust for a human Reaper cloud his judgment. But that wouldn't make him a very threatening villain.

 

[Haagrum]

Yes, because there's absolutely no logical reason to attack Earth first. (snipped for brevity)

Basically, the benefit for plan A are massive compared to plan B. I just don't get why the Reapers would make such a poor decision, unless Harbinger is really stupid and letting his lust for a human Reaper cloud his judgment. But that wouldn't make him a very threatening villain.

I'm not saying that attacking Earth is the BEST plan. I'm saying it does make sense, if you try to look at it from a gargantuan nigh-invincible abomination-from-beyond's perspective.

Plan A is the best plan going, as long as you can pull it off. That's why it was Plan A. However, the key thing missing from the Citadel plan is an agent like Saren who can give control over to the Reapers from the inside. The ME1 plan was only possible because of him. This time, there's no Conduit and no Saren-like agent (yet...), and the Keepers can't be directed to act. If that's a requirement for Plan A, then Plan A automatically fails.

Leaving aside the "agent" issue with the Citadel plan, it stands to reason that the Citadel might be better defended than before, possibly with weapons based on Reaper technology. That's pure supposition, though, so I won't argue it too hard - but I doubt Harbinger wouldn't have noticed the Thanix Cannon-ing of his minions in ME2. Plus, the Reapers could be acting to divide the races of the galaxy by hitting Earth first - after all, humans have been the most active and most aggressive against them, so surely it's not entirely unreasonable that at least some other races would look at Earth and think "Time to switch to the winning side"?

Furthermore, indoctrinating a number of humans and releasing them into the galaxy would enable the Reapers to divide and conquer more effectively. There's no reason to believe that the Reapers couldn't shut down the mass relay leading to Earth manually - although they would certainly announce that something was wrong by doing so, the exact nature of the problem wouldn't be apparent, and only the "crazy human Spectre who's been ranting about them for years" would be escaping to "warn" the galaxy about a threat no-one else has seen and which only seems to be affecting humans (at this stage). It could be a calculated risk, especially since they (1) wouldn't have gone in expecting Shepard to escape, and (2) don't see organic life as a genuine threat anyway.

Finally, the Reapers are enormously powerful and ancient monstrosities. They've done this dance a few thousand times before, and now there's a human who's changing the steps. They might say they're "free of all weakness", but their mere interest in Shepard personally suggests they're still susceptible to pride, anger and (especially) arrogance. Two-kilometre-long incarnations of destruction are still effective villains but they need some vulnerabilities to exploit, otherwise ME3 would just be a video of the Reapers annihilating everyone rather than a computer game.

We're not going to agree, so I'll stop here. All I'll say in conclusion is that maybe the first plan isn't initially viable at the start of ME3, and maybe the Reapers want to get some personal payback on Shepard (and to personally unsettle him/her because he/she's been their greatest annoyance thus far). That second possibility should, if considered properly, be sufficiently terrifying to make the Reapers credible "final-act" villains.

 

[Internet Kraken]

-snip-

Sorry, you raise decent points, but at the end of the day it was repeatedly hammered into the player that the Citadel was the key to the Reaper's success and that's why you need to stop Saren now. The Citadel is a target of immense strategic value. Nothing else even comes close to rivaling it in terms of importance. The idea that the Reapers just skipped over it is absurd. Mass Effect 3 better have a damn good explanation for this.

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

My only concern is that they'll somehow restrict Shepard to a single planet or city, like they did with Dragon Age 2.

Which was probably one of the worst decisions for a game in the past ten years, but the way.

 

[Mysten]

Sorry, you raise decent points, but at the end of the day it was repeatedly hammered into the player that the Citadel was the key to the Reaper's success and that's why you need to stop Saren now. The Citadel is a target of immense strategic value. Nothing else even comes close to rivaling it in terms of importance. The idea that the Reapers just skipped over it is absurd. Mass Effect 3 better have a damn good explanation for this.

Harbinger has made it clear to Shepard that his/her actions have gained the attention of the Reapers. As pointed out, they're certainly not without pride - pride which Shepard has been stamping all over for two games now. They're going to be looking for revenge on the one being who has thwarted them so many times already.

That said, there's no evidence that Earth is the only planet being targeted, only that it is being targeted. The Citadel is going to be much harder to take control of now that any chance of a surprise assault is gone. Without the Keepers, the Reapers are going to have to travel in the old fashioned way and while Sovereign might have managed to attach himself to the Citadel before, the Council are likely much more prepared for a similar attack (the Citadel arms, I imagine, are as tough to break as a mass relay so once they're closed, even the Reapers would be locked out.)

Their best shot at a successful invasion this time would be to work in reverse - target the homeworlds of each of the Citadel races first to weaken them and then work inwards.

 

[GiantRaven]

My only concern is that they'll somehow restrict Shepard to a single planet or city, like they did with Dragon Age 2.

Which was probably one of the worst decisions for a game in the past ten years, but the way.

Not going to happen. So far I remember seeing that Shepard will be visiting the Quarian, Taurian and Salarian homeworlds, as well as going back to the Krogan homeworld. There is a significant focus on Earth for Mass Effect 3, but it isn't the only location we'll be seeing.

 

[The_Darkness]

Can I say a serious thank-you to the OP for putting the spoiler tags up there? I'm having a huge amount of difficulty avoiding the slightest bit of info regarding ME3's plot, so cheers! (Indeed, I have already failed on a couple of counts. Seriously internet, stop trying to tell me everything about the game 8 months before it comes out!)

Also, yes, I'm not worried about ME3 either. It's Bioware, and it's one of their most successful series to date. They've had two games to perfect the formula and they are *not* going to want to go out with a fail...

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

My only concern is that they'll somehow restrict Shepard to a single planet or city, like they did with Dragon Age 2.

Which was probably one of the worst decisions for a game in the past ten years, but the way.

Not going to happen. So far I remember seeing that Shepard will be visiting the Quarian, Taurian and Salarian homeworlds, as well as going back to the Krogan homeworld. There is a significant focus on Earth for Mass Effect 3, but it isn't the only location we'll be seeing.

Yay. Then all is right with the world.

 

[Ladette]

People will always rant about the sky falling. The times they're actually right are few and far between from my perspective. Bioware has yet to make a game I didn't enjoy, so i'm not worried.

 

[Warachia]

Still confused?

Yes, because there's absolutely no logical reason to attack Earth first. I can understand being interested in the human species, but that doesn't mean they have to attack them first. The reason the previous Reaper invasions succeeded was becuase they always took control of the Citadel. The Citadel is what binds all the species of the galaxy together. Without it, they can't reach other, communicate with each other, or do anything else that would require the use of the relay system. By taking control of this, the Reapers ensure that any resistance will be disorganized and confused.

By attacking Earth there making their presence known without doing any of the above. The other species are perfectly capable of forming a retaliation now that they know the Reapers are here. Which is exactly what is happening. Let's just make a list of the effects of both plans;

Attacking the Citadel
-Disrupt communications between species
-Isolate every major system from one another
-Prevent formation of a powerful multi-species retaliation force
-Complete control of the relay network
-More information than they could ever need about each species

Attacking Earth
-Make presence known across the galaxy
-Provoke unified attack from other species
-Make other species aware of danger causing them to fortify their defenses
-Harbinger gets to satisfy his creepy human fetish

Basically, the benefit for plan A are massive compared to plan B. I just don't get why the Reapers would make such a poor decision, unless Harbinger is really stupid and letting his lust for a human Reaper cloud his judgment. But that wouldn't make him a very threatening villain.

Maybe they wouldn't attack the Citadel because now it would be far more heavily defended than any of the other planets and since every species is already there the fleets would show up faster as opposed to a lone planet you don't care about because they aren't you, ex. Why should turrians come to the aid of humans, they would just fortify their own position and wait.

Other reasons why they wouldn't attack the citadel, the collecters already collected all of the information on other species, attacking the citadel would PROVOKE a multi species retaliation, not discourage, the systems would not be isolated, because there are other relay's that can be used to get around the citadel and all species would know what's going on because it would be a full frontal attack, not a surprise attack.

 

[Warachia]

-snip-

Sorry, you raise decent points, but at the end of the day it was repeatedly hammered into the player that the Citadel was the key to the Reaper's success and that's why you need to stop Saren now. The Citadel is a target of immense strategic value. Nothing else even comes close to rivaling it in terms of importance. The idea that the Reapers just skipped over it is absurd. Mass Effect 3 better have a damn good explanation for this.

Just found this now, the reason it was originally key was to isolate the races, and do all the other pros you mentioned before, with a surprise attack that would bring all reapers instantly to the heart of the galaxy, now, since they know you're coming, it has no strategic value, in ME 2 they have better communications, weapons, and sensors that would warn the citadel that the reapers would be coming, and the citadel would warn all the other races.

I'll use a stealth game for comparison, you know how you can be in the shadows, and pick off your enemies one by one while they don't know what's going on? Attacking the citadel now would be the same as walking into the open and letting all of the alarms go off.

 

[Grey_Focks]

Neither am I, though I will keep an eye open for any news, because I like the games a lot, but I'm no fool.

As for "Why attack Earth first?" well, it could be they are just using video-game logic. Over the course of 2 games and some DLC, Shephard has pretty much single handedly postponed their invasion three times. I'd say trying to kill him first makes sense. How did they know he was on Earth? Well, they are an race of god-like starships, they probably just googled him. I'd say three-time galactic savior shephard being under trial for Wiping out an entire system, killing a few hundred thousand Batarians is pretty news worthy. Still though why target Earth, instead of wiping out the citadel on it's pretty intimidating fleet (that admittedly couldn't even take down a single Reaper on it's own)

Shut up, that's why.

 

[Hyperactiveman]

I'm not worried... idc either... ME is no longer the game who made me fall in love with RPGs and have so much fun with it.

Also I usually only buy a sequel to a game when at least a few of the ideas I had in my head for it get put in like customizable armour (plating not just colours) with attachments and gun upgrades with space-age gadgets... I really wanted more and new gadgets.

I mean its a space game... Where's the aliens? Where's the kickass technology? ME1 had this but it needed building on for a second game... Why have we so many humans and cool stuff taken out?

Don't want to say I'm sorry for raging at this but damn, seriously!!

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

I don't really care about it after playing the other two. Bioware has gone from great dialogue and depth to gears of war mashed with a dating sim.

If the imbeciles who wrote the KOTOR MMO and/or Dragon age 2 come anywhere near it then it's dead in my book.

 

[Legion IV]

bioware and mass effect are dead to me.

They use to care about the core fans and the gameplay but not anymore.

Sigh.

 

[Internet Kraken]

-snip-

-snip-

Both of you are severly undrestimating the value of the Citadel. Their entire plan rests on it. They need it. This was made clear in Mass Effect; the reason Reaper invasions have succeeded was because they had the Citadel. The Citadel is the greatest asset any faction could hoope to control. It is the heart of the relay system; you can't go to most places without going through it. It has all the data on all the races. It's the perfect trap set up by the Reapers, and why they're suddenly abandoning it in favor of attacking Earth makes no sense.

You say that the Citadel is to well fortified? That doesn't make any sense since they're going to have to go through it eventually. It's not like they can just ignore the Citadel. They're going to need to take control of it regardless of what their current plan in. By attacking Earth, all they are doing is broadcasting to the galaxy that they are here. So when they do go through the Citadel, and they will have to, whatever defenses it had before are now going to be far stronger. This is a stupid plan. The Reapers are being stupid. If they're making such an idiotic move I can't find them threatening as villains. They're not even making use of the system they spent so much time preparing!

Even if their first plan failed, that still doesn't change the fact that the Citadel is the single most important asset to the success of their plan. By not attacking it first they're giving the other species time to band together, which is exactly what is happening. If the Reaper fleet isn't powerful enough to take out the Citadel now, then their plan is doomed to fail anyways.

Their best shot at a successful invasion this time would be to work in reverse - target the homeworlds of each of the Citadel races first to weaken them and then work inwards.

You need access to the relay network to reach the homeworlds. The heart of the relay network is the Citadel. So in order to reach these homeworld they would be going through the Citadel. So unless they take control of the Citadel that plan won't work at all.

 

[AngryBritishAce]

@vdeity
Now that wasn't very polite, was it? This is what I'm talking about. You need to look towards the future with a smile. And by the way, there is nothing you can say to prove I am stupid, so that insult did nothing to hurt me. As quoted from "to kill a mockingbird:" 'it's never an insult to be called what someone thinks is a bad name. It just shows you how poor that person is, it doesn't hurt you.'

I was, in fact, trying to help you. The song may be funny, but it's message is clear. You need to look brightly towards things. Not once in any of your posts thus far have shown any liking of Mass Effect in general. Now yes ther are good and bad point's, I cannot argue. But if you think something is terrible, it is so. But if you think it is good, then it is good. It's your own mind that plays tricks on how you look at things.

Now I'm not saying love everything, but at least try to look at good in everything and make sure to be a positive person. Look what being grumpy has given you so far. You have been suspended for 3 days. Now if you were nice once in a while that would of never happened. It may seem small, but in the grand sceme of things if you don't cheer up then you'll be a grumpy for ever.