I'm super depressed about sexism in gaming...

DevilWithaHalo

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I don't have the time to reply back to everything at the moment Trilligan, but I wanted to comment on this...
Trilligan said:
No, the problem is that MRAs tend to argue a victim's stance that is inherently unjustifiable considering that most of the men who make the argument do so from places of established privilege.
...I would be very much interested in discussing this with you on a new thread if you'd indulge me. Perhaps in the Political section.

I'll get back tomorrow, I'm in a rush!
 

BRex21

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Trilligan said:
BRex21 said:
No, the problem is that MRAs tend to argue a victim's stance that is inherently unjustifiable considering that most of the men who make the argument do so from places of established privilege.

I don't want to debate you. Bother someone else with your nonsense.
ah the magical privilege word, an attempt to shame when you have no logical argument.
 

BRex21

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Jun_Jun said:
It's less about a 'no boys' club and more about a place where women are free to relax and not constantly be on edge and watching out for gropers or men trying to take pictures of you constantly (trust me I've been there..). I guess for the while a 'girlcon' is a good temporary solution until the industry and community grow up a bit and learn that women make up to 40% of the gaming population. (sorry if this seems aggro and ranty this issue really annoys the everloving crap out of me)
So do you believe that women are incapable of being skeevy sexual predators or do you simply believe men do not deserve space free from it? I had to switch gyms when I could not get away from cougars at the one in my neighbourhood, plenty of which think its perfectly acceptable to grope, an society tells me I should "always be on" and be appreciative of this.
As i said previously in this thread, men have a complete lack of "safe space" backed up by legal nondiscrimination laws, is it any wonder guys take offence when space that used to "just be guys" has women show up and expect change?
 

BRex21

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Trilligan said:
BRex21 said:
Trilligan said:
BRex21 said:
No, the problem is that MRAs tend to argue a victim's stance that is inherently unjustifiable considering that most of the men who make the argument do so from places of established privilege.

I don't want to debate you. Bother someone else with your nonsense.
ah the magical privilege word, an attempt to shame when you have no logical argument.
No magic. White male privilege is an established thing. But I'm still not going to debate you.

There's no point in it.
its only established fact from an exclusionary "gender studies" perspective. Since there are no concrete examples that factor socioeconomic status and personal choice angles its really more unprovable theory.
 

Naroiden

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estoria-etnia said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
estoria-etnia said:
Stop feeling persecuted because people are picking on you for saying or doing misogynistic or homophobic things. If someone tells you that something that you said is offensive? You apologize and don't say it again. Maybe you'll LEARN something if you actually listen to what they have to say instead of shutting them down.

You know what I don't like seeing in games? Germans as always being portrayed as the bad guys. You know what I don't do when I see yet another game demonize all German people? I don't play the games, or I grow a thicker skin and deal with it. Perhaps you could follow my example.
Well, at least I know that you're an asshole so it's all good. So, I guess you're saying is I should just ditch gaming entirely because it's a man's thing and my feelings might get hurt? Wow. Good advice. I'm so totally going to give up something I love and enjoy doing just so the poor little men can feel better and go about being misogynistic fucks. Because that's what you're advising I do.

Yeah, it's not like saying slurs that are intended to oppress people just because of their gender or their sexual orientation is contributing to that. It's all about FREE SPEECH and I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT. Yeah, you can say what you want; I still have the right to call you an asshole.
That`s because there is no girl forum user in Turkey. ._.
 

BRex21

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Trilligan said:
BRex21 said:
Third and last time. I am not going to debate you. Find another patsy for your inevitable flamewar.
Face it, you have no rational arguments as to why violence against men, in media or otherwise, does not matter. Hence the need to continue to try and have the last word with content free posts.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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estoria-etnia said:
Well, at least I know that you're an asshole so it's all good.
Personal attacks are uncalled for, I didn't bad mouth you I would hope you could do the same for me.
estoria-etnia said:
So, I guess you're saying is I should just ditch gaming entirely because it's a man's thing and my feelings might get hurt? Wow. Good advice. I'm so totally going to give up something I love and enjoy doing just so the poor little men can feel better and go about being misogynistic fucks. Because that's what you're advising I do.
No I'm saying that you should do what I do and avoid the games that annoy you, or do what I do and just grow a thicker skin. I avoid most WW2 games and Wolfenstein. However, I realize that its silly for me to get irritated with Modern Warfare Nazi Zombies and so I just tough it out and enjoy the game.

In fact, if you manly use computer games, you could use mods to "correct" any female costumes you don't like. :)

estoria-etnia said:
Yeah, it's not like saying slurs that are intended to oppress people just because of their gender or their sexual orientation is contributing to that. It's all about FREE SPEECH and I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT. Yeah, you can say what you want; I still have the right to call you an asshole.
Mute them, say something back or report them.

Also, how does smack talk "oppress" you?
 

Jun_Jun

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Hopefully I don't get a double post here, I didn't feel like mushing this together with my last reply post but here I go...
I totally understand that feeling of not only a bit of depression but 'hulk out' anger with this particular sort of subject, I will explain however that I do find myself quite a patient and diplomatic person with most arguments or when people are being asswads, but usually I find that when some man is acting like a pig or just with any sort of sexual harassment towards a woman I honestly don't see any reason to 'talk' to this individual or show them any sort of 'patience' as I try to get them to see a different perspective, no I usually want to hurt them, badly. Now I will admit that I have some 'past issues' on the subject of being physically sexually harassed and treated worse than an animal for being born with ovaries, and nowadays I usually find myself refusing to let things get to those sorts of stages before acting whether it's aimed towards me or a random stranger on the street. (wow this is making me look like a violent *****..)Usually things don't get too physical, most of the time standing up to a man and telling them to back off is enough to surprise them enough to leave their prospective victim alone.
Now this is where it gets to me when this sort of harassment is online, I'm usually at a complete loss at what to do being torn at 'not feeding the animals' and wanting to stand up for other women being harassed, so I usually find myself being quite irate and frustrated even while in the middle of studying, certain comments of the general consensus on certain opinions (usually just knowing that many people on a certain site agree with certain comments) will come to mind and I find myself in a horrible mood for about 1/2 an hour to an hour, mostly because it boggles my mind about how people can be so medieval and knowing most are doing it for attention or are too young/immature to find any other platform of self confidence.(oh deer.. I wasn't meant to make this so long better spoiler it) When it comes to gender wars on this site it usually is quite a bit less uglier than other sites I see online, which is pleasant. :)
Also I'll add this just because I see this sort of argument thrown up on the table each time by the opposition 'toughen up this is the Internet/game community, don't like it? leave!'
I don't know about any of you guys but I play games to enjoy myself and relax, have a good time y'know? and while I consider myself to be quite thick-skinned (lurking 4chan during it's first 5 years)I don't see how that comes down to me taking harassment, being thick-skinned means nothing when people are basically vomiting down their mics at you the moment you have the gumption to dare use your own during a game, it's still unpleasant, especially when I play to enjoy myself and relax is it really acceptable that each time I want to do this I have to filter through this vomit each and every time?It gets kind of old after awhile, I think that's the reason why quite a few women refuse to divulge their gender or use mics in large multiplayer spaces and probably more have just given up playing online and have just quit thinking 'well this must be the way things work gaming online' thinking that they have no place or it's a horrible environment because some kids think that sending sexually harassing messages or screaming/mic spamming every time the woman goes to talk is smart/witty and something that somehow makes them more of a man or some other unknown retarded social status online because they're displaying behaviours that they know is not acceptable in the real world.
and I will clarify my frustration doesn't come from not being able to beat the snot out of the sexist peoples of the internet, it comes from really having no way to possibly stop them the way I am used to stopping them, not beating on them I mean making them think twice about what they are doing, letting them know that people/bystanders are not just going to ignore this, they will take action against this sort of behaviour.
As for my solution for this sort of behaviour... hmm probably to make it socially 'not alright' in this community not he escapist but the gaming community as a whole, what I mean is if you hear some guy/kid screaming constantly at a girl to make him a sandwich don't just object once then sit silent use that kick/mute option if there is one, if someone is defending the victim join them, let them know that this sort of behaviour is not tolerated here I'm sure that when at least a quarter of the people active in that game sever take a stand against the individual, they will start rethinking their actions (now I don't expect them to instantly apologise or anything), and maybe the next game they're on they might pass up the opportunity to harass a girl, not wanting to become embarrassed when their behaviour is not received well. Ok now, that's probably a bit idealistic, but muting them or kicking them does practically nothing, they'll just jump in a different game and continue on, and unless the developers come up with some systems that will permanently punish people who pull this crap we should come up with some temporary solutions until that happens right?
ok wow that was pretty ranty, excuse me while I go hang out at a Buddhist temple so the wonderful, peaceful people there make me feel horrible for daring to vent my frustrations...

captcha: yee haw (o_O)
 

AngelBlackChaos

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Lyri said:
Phasmal said:
She said she is NO LONGER avoiding it.
Which means she is using it now, in the hopes that people hearing a female voice more often will make people more used to it.
You missed her point twice.
Misread, twice.
Welp, go ahead and crucify me now.
No need to crucify you. Seriously, no need to be dramatic. Mistakes are mistakes. I make them too :p
 

Jun_Jun

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BRex21 said:
Jun_Jun said:
It's less about a 'no boys' club and more about a place where women are free to relax and not constantly be on edge and watching out for gropers or men trying to take pictures of you constantly (trust me I've been there..). I guess for the while a 'girlcon' is a good temporary solution until the industry and community grow up a bit and learn that women make up to 40% of the gaming population. (sorry if this seems aggro and ranty this issue really annoys the everloving crap out of me)
So do you believe that women are incapable of being skeevy sexual predators or do you simply believe men do not deserve space free from it? I had to switch gyms when I could not get away from cougars at the one in my neighbourhood, plenty of which think its perfectly acceptable to grope, an society tells me I should "always be on" and be appreciative of this.
As i said previously in this thread, men have a complete lack of "safe space" backed up by legal nondiscrimination laws, is it any wonder guys take offence when space that used to "just be guys" has women show up and expect change?
Look man I'm not going to have a thumb/comment war with you but I will say that the reason both of these places (Japan and gaming) have 'girls only' spaces because that both kinda have this whole 'you're in a man's world, deal with it' attitude in it. Now I'm not going to be the all-evil 'femnazi' here, and yes I'm well aware that women themselves are more than capable of being sexual predators, I didn't anywhere try to claim/insinuate that they weren't in that comment. Also if a chick grabs you while you're trying to have a relaxing time at the gym call that ***** out on it, call security etc. Take the gym/health club up on that crap, there must have been something in your contract that said 'thou shalt not touch other patrons', it doesn't just apply to men get those groping cougars out of there. I have no issues with men doing this sort of thing to women since my fiancé works in a high-end mens' fashion store most of the cougars that walk in the door equate him to a piece of meat on display and try to twist his balls stick their fingers up his ass etc. He calls security and gets those bitches dragged out. (wow another thing that gets on my tits in this comment thread, cougars feeling up my fiancé xD)
 

BRex21

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Jun_Jun said:
BRex21 said:
Jun_Jun said:
It's less about a 'no boys' club and more about a place where women are free to relax and not constantly be on edge and watching out for gropers or men trying to take pictures of you constantly (trust me I've been there..). I guess for the while a 'girlcon' is a good temporary solution until the industry and community grow up a bit and learn that women make up to 40% of the gaming population. (sorry if this seems aggro and ranty this issue really annoys the everloving crap out of me)
So do you believe that women are incapable of being skeevy sexual predators or do you simply believe men do not deserve space free from it? I had to switch gyms when I could not get away from cougars at the one in my neighbourhood, plenty of which think its perfectly acceptable to grope, an society tells me I should "always be on" and be appreciative of this.
As i said previously in this thread, men have a complete lack of "safe space" backed up by legal nondiscrimination laws, is it any wonder guys take offence when space that used to "just be guys" has women show up and expect change?
Look man I'm not going to have a thumb/comment war with you but I will say that the reason both of these places (Japan and gaming) have 'girls only' spaces because that both kinda have this whole 'you're in a man's world, deal with it' attitude in it. Now I'm not going to be the all-evil 'femnazi' here, and yes I'm well aware that women themselves are more than capable of being sexual predators, I didn't anywhere try to claim/insinuate that they weren't in that comment. Also if a chick grabs you while you're trying to have a relaxing time at the gym call that ***** out on it, call security etc. Take the gym/health club up on that crap, there must have been something in your contract that said 'thou shalt not touch other patrons', it doesn't just apply to men get those groping cougars out of there. I have no issues with men doing this sort of thing to women since my fiancé works in a high-end mens' fashion store most of the cougars that walk in the door equate him to a piece of meat on display and try to twist his balls stick their fingers up his ass etc. He calls security and gets those bitches dragged out. (wow another thing that gets on my tits in this comment thread, cougars feeling up my fiancé xD)
the problem is it is not taken seriously, there are very strong views in our society that a)men always want sex and b) women are reactionary. In this case i did speak to them, got laughed at, raised a shitstorm and got my money back for the membership.
I see no reason why male safe space should not exist, in a virtual space or in the form of male only gyms or "mens centres" however our society and governing bodies view harassment against males, even in serious cases, as something to marginalize and ignore.
 

theultimateend

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NOTE: Just to be clear. Treating anyone like shit for anything they cannot control is donkey balls and anyone doing it is a terrible POS.

Hope that helps >_>. Gender, sexuality, race, and other genetic things that you never chose are not fair game for criticism or harassment of any kind.

Don't want anyone thinking I'm on the side of being a pig or something. I just think most of the time folks are making mountains out of molehills by lacking perspective. Perhaps wrong, but the stretches taken at times are pretty astounding.

Matthew94 said:


So umm yeah, this deserved a thread? Yeah, we get it. I think we ALL get it by now, I could have sworn I've seen this posted so many times.
Pretty much my thoughts.

But I'm equally guilty, I still visit expecting something new.

estoria-etnia said:
Stop feeling persecuted because people are picking on you for saying or doing misogynistic or homophobic things. If someone tells you that something that you said is offensive? You apologize and don't say it again. Maybe you'll LEARN something if you actually listen to what they have to say instead of shutting them down.
I don't think hypersensitivity is a good idea.

If everyone stopped saying things the moment they offended someone we'd be in a world of nothing but silence.

I think the better answer would be to ask them WHY they are offended. Then you get something interesting going.

Otherwise instead of "shutting them down" they are "shutting you down."

But you did mention "listen to what they have to say" so I guess you are saying the same thing you just omitted that actual step.

The wording is critical to me. The only people I've ever met that have said literally "I'm offended." are people who couldn't control their emotions.

NOW! There are folks that say "that's rude" or "that was stupid" etc, etc, ad infinitum, its those specific 2 words "I'm offended." that has never netted me an intelligent discussion.

Literally only those 2 words, just so that folks don't think I think every person with soft innards is a chore or stupid. Just that particular phrasing is never a precursor to intelligent discourse (in my personal experience).
 

TheOneBearded

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Fappy said:
The gender threads, they will never die!

I agree with the OP and most of the site's regular posters probably do to varying degrees. Can we talk about something else now? :(
No, no, they do die from time to time. It's just that people like to go full-on necromancer and revive them so that the corpse doesn't start to rot.

OT: I care about female gamers as much as I do the drunk hobo on the other side of town or the girl who sucks out man batter on a daily basis to make money for her Big Daddy Pimp Overlord, which is not at all. They exist. They live. They are not extraordinary. They should not get any more attention as male gamers.
 

BRex21

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Trilligan said:
BRex21 said:
Trilligan said:
BRex21 said:
Third and last time. I am not going to debate you. Find another patsy for your inevitable flamewar.
Face it, you have no rational arguments as to why violence against men, in media or otherwise, does not matter. Hence the need to continue to try and have the last word with content free posts.
Flame on, Harvest Moon. You're on my ignore list now, I don't give a shit.
Since you provided an argument that violence against men is simple violence but violence against women is gendered violence, regardless of any of the motivations of either, could not explain in any way why and had to resort to ad-homonym shaming tactics about my skincolour that you have never seen I had to respond. Doubly so to prevent you from having the last word! Incidentally ignoring someone is in fact a better way to ignore than than a contentless post.
 

Naroiden

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Fappy said:
The gender threads, they will never die!
In England and America, yeah, they will never die. It is funny because there is even no girl player in other countries.