I'm tired of the anti-feminist circlejerk here (and every where else on the internet)

[Stalkingpanda14]

It seems that every place I go on the internet, there's someone that says, "I believe in gender equality, but I don't like feminists." A lot of these people know nothing about feminism, and just attack feminists that don't exist. They attack straw men. If you're under 50 and aren't conservative, you probably shouldn't believe that the man-hating bra burners are a significant portion of feminists.
It's even worse in gaming. Gamers have given some of the weakest excuses for sexism in gaming. Few games have female protagonists, almost no games pass the bechdel test, and plenty of female characters are objectified, but whenever someone points this out, gamers get all defensive. How would you like to play a game with almost all female characters and the only male character looks like Ryan Reynolds and wears nothing but a thong and high helled boots?
Consider it this way;
A female gamer previously unknown outside of feminist circles launches a kickstarter for constructive criticism on a medium she enjoys. Plenty of commenters threaten to rape and kill her, and when she doesn't release the videos for a while, people make claims about her scamming people.
A male youtuber who frequently uploads MRA horseshit make utterly terrible comments to a rape victim on a "Men's Rights Subreddit." He later makes a video claiming he was bullied, and calls this a "minor trangression." As of now, he has 300,000 subscribers on youtube, and his videos get a large number of likes. Only feminists mentioned his misogynistic, hateful comments, and some people say he's not a terrible person, and describe his comments as "saying stupid things on the internet." But of course, there's no such thing as rape culture.
And something about all of the most powerful people in the world being men.
Despite all of this, feminism is not needed, and it is fact men that are being oppressed. BUT WAHT ABUOT TEH MENZ!????!?!??!?!

 

[Tom_green_day]

Hey no offense dude, but your statement is quite contradictory
'I'm tired of the anti-feminist circlejerk' I understand as you saying you're tired of people having a go at feminists
'Feminism is not needed, and it is in fact men that are being oppressed' As much as I agree with this view, it means you are disagreeing with feminism.

 

[Nathan Crumpler]

As we all know, complaining about something on the internet makes it go away...

 

[repeating integers]

Ohhhhhh here we go again.

To save certain other posters the trouble, I'll just point out that the Bechdel Test isn't a very good metric to measure female representation in media by. Plenty of sexist things pass it plenty of non-sexist things fail it.

All the other stuff is just the same old arguments we keep going through. You're correct, mostly, IMO. That doesn't stop this topic from making me feel tired just looking at it.

 

[repeating integers]

Hey no offense dude, but your statement is quite contradictory
'I'm tired of the anti-feminist circlejerk' I understand as you saying you're tired of people having a go at feminists
'Feminism is not needed, and it is in fact men that are being oppressed' As much as I agree with this view, it means you are disagreeing with feminism.

He was being sarcastic at the end there.

Men are not oppressed btw.

 

[Giftfromme]

LOL I'm guessing you read a single response in a single thread and then for some reason extrapolated to the entire forum, as if everyone holds 100% the same views as that person. And then you get angry as well. Save yourself bro. Just become one with leetness and you shall start oozing leetness too and won't make threads like this anymore.

 

[Xarathox]

Hey no offense dude, but your statement is quite contradictory
'I'm tired of the anti-feminist circlejerk' I understand as you saying you're tired of people having a go at feminists
'Feminism is not needed, and it is in fact men that are being oppressed' As much as I agree with this view, it means you are disagreeing with feminism.

Men are not oppressed btw.

You've obviously never been out to a bar on ladies night.

 

[DrRockor]

How would you like to play a game with almost all female characters and the only male character looks like Ryan Reynolds and wears nothing but a thong and high helled boots?

I am starting the design document as we speak! I need this to be a thing.

I think you're being sarcastic with the bit at the end but this may be wishful thinking.

 

[Ryotknife]

Gamers have given some of the weakest excuses for sexism in gaming. Few games have female protagonists

(looks at his current gen games)

wrong, especially with the ability to create your own character.

almost no games pass the bechdel test

also wrong

and plenty of female characters are objectified, but whenever someone points this out, gamers get all defensive. How would you like to play a game with almost all female characters and the only male character looks like Ryan Reynolds and wears nothing but a thong and high helled boots?

hey, one that is right. Except both genders are objectified. Yes it would be nice if certain female characters were more than just eye candy, just like it would be nice if male characters dont have to be muscle bound and only capable of two emotions (anger/rage and sarcasm). That is less of a gender issue and more of a writing/laziness issue.

Also (looks at his library of current gen games) none of my games have female characters that are all in thongs. hyper-sexualized characters are a RARITY in games these days....except for some exceptions like team ninja and the Ninja Gaiden games. However, that is a Japanese thing and probably one that is not going to change anytime soon if their anime is anything to judge by.

Also, wrestling games are filled with guys wearing speedos im assuming.

in terms of games, women are treated better than men in the past 3 years. Female characters are showing a buffet of emotions and types and are wildly varied (emotionally at least), whereas male characters are stuck in the same path they have been for over a decade. Men have more varied body types, but emotionally most of them are the same. Women on the other hand are stuck on the attractive body type. They have moved away from the (fake) supermodel type that was popular.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

god feminists are arrogant.

what other ideology claims (implicitly or otherwise) to have followers that all 100% abide by the true tenets of said ideology? the "straw feminist" counterargument is the laziest shit ever. there are tonsss of feminists, some more vocal than others, who misrepresent true feminism horribly. that's stuff feminists should sort out amongst themselves, but instead, poof, let's pretend they dont exist. it's just a lazy no true scotsman argument.

Well, pretty much all religious organisations , political movements ...actually the members of EVERY ideology I've come across get pissy when you tar all of them with the same brush.

Christianity isn't bad because the WBC are arseholes. The Liberal democrats have factions which dislike the welfare state, and other factions which are very much for it. They're all still Lib Dems. But it would be fallacious to say that the Lib Dems are conservatives because they don't like welfare, or to tell any given Lib Dem that they're not really one, because they're not in the faction you've decided to focus on.

You can cherry pick from any viewpoint and find a fuckwit talking nonsense, whose views seem odious. The straw man is when people then say, 'well clearly the entire movement is bullshit'.

It's only a no true scotsman to say 'well they're not really part of the movement'. Pointing out that they're not representative of the movement is not a no true scotsman fallacy.

 

[bananafishtoday]

So this thread will very quickly go from "interesting" to "unbearable." For what it's worth, I'm a feminist. Sup.

god feminists are arrogant.

what other ideology claims (implicitly or otherwise) to have followers that all 100% abide by the true tenets of said ideology? the "straw feminist" counterargument is the laziest shit ever. there are tonsss of feminists, some more vocal than others, who misrepresent true feminism horribly. that's stuff feminists should sort out amongst themselves, but instead, poof, let's pretend they dont exist. it's just a lazy no true scotsman argument.

Very few people would actually claim this. Feminism is actually notorious for its internal disputes. The problem with the "straw feminist" is that it's generally a caricature of the most extreme elements of one side of a huge debate back in the 1980's called the Sex Wars. It's not that people who hold these opinions don't exist. It's that they're presented as all of feminism when in reality they're relatively rare, and they're espousing viewpoints that most feminists considered discredited by the late 90's.

'Feminism is not needed, and it is in fact men that are being oppressed' As much as I agree with this view, it means you are disagreeing with feminism.

 

[Darken12]

I couldn't agree more. Anti-feminism is an unsurprising result of a privileged gender slowly losing their privilege and seeing institutions and social conventions that gave them unfair rights and advantages disappearing.

hey, one that is right. Except both genders are objectified. Yes it would be nice if certain female characters were more than just eye candy, just like it would be nice if male characters dont have to be muscle bound and only capable of two emotions (anger/rage and sarcasm). That is less of a gender issue and more of a writing/laziness issue.

Nope, male characters aren't objectified, they are idealised. They are meant to be power fantasies for straight men to project themselves into. The muscle-bound thing isn't meant to be eye candy, it's meant to let players feel manly and powerful; and the anger/sarcasm dichotomy isn't meant to turn anybody on, it's meant to make players feel badass.

Both the men and the women in most games are meant to appeal to straight males, and any enjoyment women or non-straight men derive from that setup is purely incidental.

Also, wrestling games are filled with guys wearing speedos im assuming.

You'd think so, but I've found them profoundly disappointing. The camera is very careful not to linger at all on anybody's physique, to be distanced enough from the action so as to render the shirtlessness somewhat meaningless and to give the wrestlers attires that are as unsexualised as possible. There's a difference between the straight male gaze and the straight female (or non-straight male) gaze, and wrestling games are still composed with a straight male gaze in mind.

 

[Lionsfan]

This thread is going to be a loot of Fun.

Flameshield activate.


also: possible troll. Possible

Naw, I'm guessing it's someone on here who is too cowardly to put this opinion on their regular posting account.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

'Feminism is not needed, and it is in fact men that are being oppressed' As much as I agree with this view, it means you are disagreeing with feminism.

You know you're not helping by posting that? You're pretty much saying "HAHA YOU ARE WRONG! WHY? BECAUSE HAHA YOU ARE WRONG!" to anyone who thinks that men sometimes need help too. I'd like to point you to this image:

Spoiler

Yes, it's from 4chan. If you counter it by simply saying "It's from 4chan" you have no good argument, and you're doing exactly the same thing this thread's complaining about.

Whilst I don't fully agree men are being oppressed, they are still facing a lot of sexism that just isn't focused on because women's rights are seen as much more important in the fight for gender equality. Gender equality has become an un-equal fight, with people insulting or laughing in the face of any man who wishes to say he might be a little down-trodden.

Now see that nowhere in that post did I belittle women or feminists, I'm simply saying that posting that damned video doesn't help your point if you're not going to back it up with some actual points.

[EDITED BECAUSE OF THINGS I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY]

 

[Ryotknife]

snip

except it is not a power fantasy at all. Especially since having a lot of muscles is associated with having a little jimmy, stupidity, the emotional depth of a puddle, and plenty of other negative stereotypes. Think about villians, typically the muscle bound characters are dumb brutes.

Power fantasy would be something like a ninja or Dante/Virgil (original devil may cry series). Fit and good looking, but not excessively muscled. Btw, to be desired is a power fantasy, so objectification and power fantasy cross over quite a bit. Not all the way, mind you. If it wasnt, you wouldnt have women dressing up in skimpy outfits of their own volition in conventions.

Very few men want to look like the Governator as their ideal power fantasy.

slightly off topic: who cares if the internet says something? Looking at youtube comments (or most forums in general) will make you want to nuke humanity. Hell religious people get bashed on these forums non stop, doesnt mean it is a problem outside of the internet.

 

[Darken12]

except it is not a power fantasy at all. Especially since having a lot of muscles is associated with having a little jimmy, stupidity, the emotional depth of a puddle, and plenty of other negative stereotypes. Think about villians, typically the muscle bound characters are dumb brutes.

Power fantasy would be something like a ninja or Dante/Virgil (original devil may cry series). Fit and good looking, but not excessively muscled. Btw, to be desired is a power fantasy, so objectification and power fantasy cross over quite a bit. Not all the way, mind you. If it wasnt, you wouldnt have women dressing up in skimpy outfits of their own volition in conventions.

Very few men want to look like the Governator as their ideal power fantasy.

They have those stereotypes because they're villains, not because they're muscled. The only one of those stereotypes that shows up outside villains is the idea that the more muscled you are, the dumber you are. But you'll find that easily balanced by the fact that muscled protagonists are always as smart as the plot needs them to be.

Some people do have power fantasies like that, yes, but a significant portion of the male population have the fantasy of being muscled to a certain degree, and games capitalise on that. Yes, being desired is part of the power fantasy, but it's not the same as objectification. The overlap is with sexualisation, not with objectification (they aren't the same thing). In order for objectification to take place, the game needs to encourage the audience to admire the female character from a distance instead of relating to her on an emotional level. This is most often accomplished with the use of the (straight) male gaze when designing game visuals, and by not informing the player of personal things about her (such as her name, backstory, personality and the like, things that we can use to connect to her on an emotional level). Not all female characters are objectified, but a significant portion of them are, and almost all of them are sexualised to some degree.

And before anybody jumps in to correct me, male mooks in videogames are often objectified too, but not sexually. Yes, male mooks are often treated as guilt-free gun-fodder to dispose of, with no names, personality of backstory given. Yes, this is true. However, they are practically never put on skimpy clothes to ogle, while female characters very often are.

 

[Popadoo]

Claims bra-burning feminazis are a small portion of feminists.
Gives examples of feminist harassment that only applies to a small portion of gamers.
Nice job, random poster.
This whole post is completely retarded, as has been pointed out by nearly everyone above.

 

[Stalkingpanda14]

Hey no offense dude, but your statement is quite contradictory
'I'm tired of the anti-feminist circlejerk' I understand as you saying you're tired of people having a go at feminists
'Feminism is not needed, and it is in fact men that are being oppressed' As much as I agree with this view, it means you are disagreeing with feminism.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well to text, but are you serious? That clearly wasn't sarcasm.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Men are not oppressed btw.

Neither are women; if we consider our first world discussion as a basis for our experiences.

Sure, people are oppressed outside our little bubble, but it's not simply women.

OP: First post... nonsensical rant... seems like baiting to me.