Immersion: absolutely useless.

[AlissaX70]

I find a game immersing if (in real life) I'm walking down the sidewalk and spot a horse, reach in my bag and look for my ocarina to play Epona's Song*, but I don't consider immersion an important aspect of gameplay. I think there are plenty of games that are considered good without being immersing persay, but a game that leaves you with a feeling of enhanced stealth and extra shuriken has done a good job in reeling you in. Tenchu Z, for example, is a game I've played where I'm not impressed with the gameplay, but I get so damn into the setting that I find myself addicted.

I know that doesn't happen to everyone with every game (immersion didn't help Tenchu Z from getting mostly poor reviews), but because I'm a dork and like stealth games the immersion stole 30$ from my wallet and landed in my XBOX 360's disk tray. I agree that the concept of immersion shouldn't be considered a standard (and therfore judged), but I don't find anything wrong with a game that does immerse some players with hyper immaginations.

*has never happened to me, I swear ;-)

[EDIT] As far as designing games for immersion, I agree its a waste of time and money; shouldn't a good game immerse players anyway?

 

[Alex_P]

(c) think, not in terms of oneself, but in terms of the charcter you are experiencing from (IE O crap I just lost *insert healers name here*, Instead of, My healer just died, better res them)

This one's a problem. If all or even most games are designed with a focus on this kind of thing, you're really crippling the medium.

-- Alex

 

[dusparr]

How is that a problem?

 

[curlycrouton]

Immersion is never achievable in a game as there is little or no element of actual fear.
There's never anything bad that can happen to you, you can't be hurt by a game, or harmed in any way. So there may be the occassional shock in F.E.A.R. or some other horror game but nothing at all dangerous, and without that element of vulnerability or fear, total immersion at least, is impossible.
You could argue of course, that immersion doesn't have to be about fear, but many other things. And perhaps emotions such as attachment or hate could be ways of immersing the player. Well that's certainly very possible, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[dusparr]

Essentially, the ABC that I wrote on boils down to
A=Arcade: you don't need to get into the setting to get addicted
B=Horror: you don't need to twitch to every little thing in Sanity's requiem, but you do.
C=RPG/adventure: The story, along with the gameplay, keeps you into the game.

 

[dusparr]

The main part is that Immersion is not something to design around, but without it, you have problems with many, many people. (IE people that don't play to beat other peoples scores, I am looking at you XBOX live players)

 

[dusparr]

For, if an arcade game is not addicting, what's the point?

 

[dusparr]

No well penned arguments before I go to sleep??

 

[curlycrouton]

quadruple post! couldn't you just put that in one post?

 

[Piemaster]

I find immersion to be more subconscious especially with todays good graphics. The images and sounds presented in games make you instinctively do things such as jump at surprises. For example when doing a leap of faith in Assassins Creed it actually made me feel slightly queasy. So when playing games that are unrealistic you don't get effected as much.

 

[dusparr]

quadruple post! couldn't you just put that in one post?

no... too tired...

Especially since post #4 had nothing to do with the rest, and post #3 was a singular rhetorical question, to which the boldness of a such a singular rhetoric, unattached to any other, is the focal point, and therefore the effect is not fully embraced without being read as such.

(HOLY SHIT I EDITED THIS 5+ TIMES)

 

[Jinjiro]

We can nitpick all we want about the term 'immersion' but there is a clear difference between games designed for simulation, to involve the player on a deeper level, and arcade style games often intended for high scores, quick versus battles and 'achievements'.

Rather than use some long-winded explanation of how the game might connect with us on a sub-conscious or moral level, involving us in story or characters rather than game system or gameplay, interesting us beyond the realms of pick-me-up arcade games, we mostly use the term 'immersion' to describe how deeply a game draws us into aspects of it, including;

- the game's plot or universe
- the characters
- the graphical game world itself (here i believe is where the word immersion is largely mis-used to represent realism, I agree with you on that one)

Immersion when used to describe a media experience does not mean we're being jacked in to the Matrix, feeling the film or game through a VR-type simulation. What we're talking about is maintaining the fourth-wall to the extent that we no longer feel like an audience but rather an emotional participant in the game.

While I agree that immersion is not the holy grail of gaming, I think it should be for RPGs. In a roleplaying game, immersion is an important factor to a lot of people's experience, so in many respects aiming for a more deliberately immersive game world would be a bonus.

 

[Kunzer]

I'm of the firm opinion that any game which specifically tries to immerse the player has already failed. (Take that however you wish)

Immersion is one of those things that happens naturally... like a first kiss!

When a gamer gets immersed in his or her virtual experience, he or she doesn't even realize it.

It is simply a bi-product of a quality game and having a great time.

That's immersion, in my books.

 

[Alex_P]

I think you are going wrong from the get go when you set up this standard: "I know I've never had an experience involving any medium -- movies, video games, flight-simulator-style amusement park rides, pen-and-paper roleplaying -- that I didn't recognize as mediated." It isn't about whether you rationally recognize the experience as mediated, but whether you emotionally respond to the experience as mediated, or if you relate to it as if it were an actual experience. If it's the latter, that is testament to immersion.

I think the idea of emotional immediacy is a red herring here. The frame plays a very big role in shaping the audience's emotional response. The catharsis you feel watching the climax of an awesome revenge movie is very different from the actual feelings that would be sloshing around in your head if it was all really happening in front of you, for example.

A lot of literary works are all about eliciting a strong emotional response that is very different from the "actual experience." Are they somehow worse off because of it?

-- Alex

 

[Shotaro]

IMO it all boils down to one simple point.

The difference between a good game and a great game is how well it draws you in, same with TV and Film. That unquantifiable time-sink that some games create is immersion in action, and different people are drawn in by different things. For example World of Warcraft draws me in for a short time then within weeks I get bored of the game and stop playing for a year or so then I go back in again. On the other hand I've lost many a day to Rock Band, horses for courses so to speak. Although what kunzer said is very true if immersion has to be a concious effort the game has failed - which was part of the reason why I didn't enjoy GTA IV half as much as the rest of the world.

 

[curlycrouton]

Rock Band infuriates me
If people want to experience playing in a band then learn the bass or guitar or something and do some good.
of course if you're too lazy....
I can understand playing, say an FPS what with the risk of death and all that or games that enable an experience that was near impossible to achieve but sports games and music games etc. are just stupid, go and do it in real life you'll get far more enjoyment out of it.

 

[Saskwach]

Just out of curiosity Alex P, are you into GNS theory?

 

[Alex_P]

Just out of curiosity Alex P, are you into GNS theory?

Familiar with it, yes. "Into" it, no. The basic idea -- some play goals are mutually contradictory -- is worthwhile; the rest of the stuff built around that (like the actual categories) kinda sucks. You'll note that GNS is an outdated model, having been replaced by "The Big Model" (which, unfortunately, still includes G, N, and S).

And, yes, I'm well aware that Edwards has said some negative things about "immersion"... I disagree with his take on that, though.

This rant is motivated more by Salen & Zimmerman (though I'm sure they'd disagree with me and I would disagree with them) than Edwards et al. The bits more specific to pen-and-paper gaming are more related to the semi-famous RPGnet "my character" rant than anything from the Forge.

-- Alex

 

[Somethingironic]

Want immersion? Try the virtual barbershop....


It's intense. Make sure you use headphones though.

 

[The Thief]

A game can't make a player immersed, but a player can make a game immersive.