In defence of Whining

[MrHide-Patten]

Didn't Jim do a video on this?

Yes, Jim did a video which was - ironically - a well-constructed lecture on the topic, making an argument that it gets certain jobs done. Putting aside what it HAS done when used, it is because it is that way of doing things that is still wrong even if it makes some kind of progress. We're not suppose to be bitching. We're suppose to be trying to be intelligent. Regardless of the effect, let me just ask you a question, point-blank:

Which would you rather hear from your various users online, a discussion that can be give-and-take and kept somewhat under control? Or...

[HEADING=1]"EEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!"[/HEADING]

...which is the collective shriek of an internet forum full of banshees acting like two-year-olds?

If you REALLY think the second option is preferable, I'd rather not know.

I had to edit this in.

That, my friend, is a fetid load. It has nothing to do with how the issue is constructed. It's the quality of your store. Since MY gaming retail store experience has been good, I must submit a fault in that line of reasoning.

Also, welcome to the Escapist.

I'm firmly on the note that bitching doesn't get you anywhere, potentially more jaded. This is especially noteworthy with Darksiders 2 and their all so terrific bugs, I could whine out the wahzo, but I know the fun of game development better than most so I know what goes into a game really.

 

[Solusumbra]

I have to point out that while you have the right to be offended by something, being offended by something does not entitle you to anything. I don't have to give you any special treatment just because you're offended by something I did. I might apologize to you if you behave like a human being when expressing your disapproval, but I have no obligation to make any changes based on your opinion.

It really bothers me when people talk about being offended like they deserve some sort of compensation or action because of their offended-ness.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Agreed, there is always room for criticism but you don't have to be a whiny ***** about it. I'm much more inclined to listen to a well constructed criticism/argument than someone crying their eyes out over something. Whining is completely unnecessary and achieves much less than its alternatives.

what is and what isnt whining though? on the internet people seem top call whatever they want whining (as in the outcry over the ME3 ending)

to me "whining" is just rage/negativy with little constructive input...it annoys me more I guess because here and other plcased I get pretty effing sick of it

Let Rarity show you

Good show, uneek. I was planning on posting this video by the time I saw the second post, but you beat me to it by a day.

 

[FalloutJack]

The difference between whining and criticism is the difference between regular porn and diaper porn, one is more embarrassing to be found doing than the other.

Constructive criticism - that rare nugget of people trying to actually help other people - is therefore...what?

 

[Arslan Aladeen]

Heh

It was well-meant.

Anyway, let's not make assumptions about the stores I go to. I use a bunch of 'em. I'm a nice guy, and I get good treatment. Hell, I even get reasonable tech support.

Well, I hope nothing ever happens to change your viewpoint or character. I try to be a nice guy, but it seems like I get more jaded as time goes on.

 

[Mikodite]

If this is true, then those who are condemning the whining also do not have a choice, and their tactic of creating arguments to oppose what they do not like (the whining) is legitimate as a means to change that behavior or vocalize their opposition towards it.

In fact all you are doing is whining about the anti-whiners, who are also in a sense whiners.

Circular logic is circular. I'll give you that. I guess I do take issue to moments where someone has a legit complaint (or at least appears to honestly belief a 'dumb' stance) and it gets dismissed as immature whining.

Mind you the 'anti-whiner' whose argument is "the thing you are whining about isn't that big a deal, calm down" isn't really whining about whiners: they simply think the thing being whined about is trivial, or not really wrong. Again, its all perceptive, as what I think is wrong might not necessarily be what you think is wrong, so you might think my grievance isn't really a grievance.

I wonder how many people are going to whine about whining in this thread.

Quite a few apparently :*\

Criticizing something with a valid point is entirely fine. Get enough people to raise a stink about it until shit gets done is acceptable as well. I'm all for it. You just have to have a reason why you hate something if you say you hate it.

My main problem is that a lot of people, like the OP, confuse valid complaints with whining. And some dumbass is going to come along and tell fans they're just being butthurt about it.

Long story short, change that one key word in your title and OP and I'd agree with you.

Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.

Basically, yes. Any criticism, valid or not you don't like will be dismissed as whining.

In a way that is the point I'm trying to convoy (as True Scotsmen-esc as it got). I have been told the difference between a 'whiner' and a 'complainer': that a complainer has a point. Mind you part of the problem is a given individual ranting about the wrongness of something before (or without) knowing why its wrong, thus the whining. Its an emotional knee-jerk reaction. Not too rational at all.

Still, here's the thing: not everyone will dismiss you completely, even if your running on pure emotion. After all, the grievance could be real and it just needed a more rational person to point out the 'wrongness'.

Didnt Jim Sterling did a video about the benefits of whining? and being childish in response to when the oponents are childish and incapable of taking criticism?

Yep, and I saw it. It is sad, but true. Its one of the reason why I don't believe in the concept of 'growing up.'

I don't know. It seems like everyone here lives in an idealized world where talking calm and rational gets results. From what I've seen it doesn't really work like that. If you go to a store with some sort of comlaint and try to explain it calmly, they'll probably just put you on hold. You start whining and making noise, they give you their complete attention just so they can get you out of their faces faster. The MLP clip just kinda reinforces this. The creatures didn't really comply to what she wanted till after she started whining.

Actually, in life, I find one place being reasonable really helps is when you are complaining to a store. It's okay to be upset, but actually bitching out customer service is one way to make them uncooperative.

In the rest of the "real world" tantrums may actually be justified, but I think it's six to one, half dozen to the other.

Depends on time and place really. In the case of customer service for the most part the ninny behind the counter wants to help you (their job depends on it), and a tantrum then wouldn't do much good if they couldn't help you as those reps had no power to help your plight (and in many cases its the store manager's fault, and they might not hear your problem).

Course throwing a fit might not seem constructive, but getting your ass in the newspaper for being upset over a given offense might rally some people to your side, depending on what it was.

 

[Mikodite]

I believe that for a myriad of reasons, people frequently choose to be offended by things that are of little threat or importance. Open a newspaper, you can't avoid it. There is a hell of a lot of people going through life with a victim mentality that is completely unwarranted.

It is possible that it is you who thinks the thing was of little threat of importance, but it might have been a big deal to the offended.

I'm going to sound judgmental for this blanket statement, but is there a single person whom is neither white or male that honestly believes people go around trying to get offended by things? Cuz I've only heard that sentiment from white males: a group that don't get offended very often because no one has ever attacked them that way before.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I believe that for a myriad of reasons, people frequently choose to be offended by things that are of little threat or importance. Open a newspaper, you can't avoid it. There is a hell of a lot of people going through life with a victim mentality that is completely unwarranted.

It is possible that it is you who thinks the thing was of little threat of importance, but it might have been a big deal to the offended.

I'm going to sound judgmental for this blanket statement, but is there a single person whom is neither white or male that honestly believes people go around trying to get offended by things? Cuz I've only heard that sentiment from white males: a group that don't get offended very often because no one has ever attacked them that way before.

The people who are frequently openly offended by things, are themselves often more offensive than what they're protesting...is the thing.

People are often offended by the dumbest things...swearing, nudity, homosexuality(does it matter whether it's important to them? They're advocating censorship and bigotry), and we have a media that seems intent on fanning the flames in hope that a story might emerge from the obvious non-story that is most of what gets reported.

I'm more concerned with what those people, the whiners and the attention starved media that give them a spotlight, are doing to our society. I don't want to live in a society where everyone is so selfish and entitled that they verbalise every dumb little thing that bothers them. That's not tolerant, clever or progressive.

Bah! What the fuck do I know? I'm gonna go live in the woods.

 

[Devil_Worshipper]

The difference between whining and criticism is the difference between regular porn and diaper porn, one is more embarrassing to be found doing than the other.

Constructive criticism - that rare nugget of people trying to actually help other people - is therefore...what?

Porn. One man's constructive criticism is another man's "WHAT DID YOU CALL MY MOTHER!" There's a lot of gray area on what would be considered positive feedback. People getting easily offended and whatnot.

 

[Dr Jones]

Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.

No. Complaining contains valid criticism. Whining is just needless and annoying.

 

[Twilight_guy]

No. Why? Because criticism or suggestion of any kind can get stuff done. Whining is one a particular type of criticism, one that that makes you want to punt the person who is doing it. There are other way of voicing your thoughts that only also get the message across but are more likely to actually get things done because instead of pissing people off by whining, you are presenting your idea in a different and more palatable light. On top of that, whining is often done over something that can't change. For example: Oh my god, the Star Wars prequels suck. You can't change the fact that the movies exist, yet there is unending whine over them. That whining serves no purpose since it can't lead to anything.

 

[In Search of Username]

I am sorry, but there is no defense for whining. It's irritating. There is, however, defense for a well-constructed thought put into words in a manner befitting discussion. Why people seem to confuse the two is beyond me.

I'm with him. Compare and contrast:

a) "I find X to not be suitable/to my tastes because of A, B, and C. I suggest D which would improve it."

b) "OMG, LIEK X SUXXORZ!!!1!" (repeat a variation several hundred times)

If I were receiving these two as a feedback, b) would not only puzzle me, I would not know how to fix it (or even if it needs fixing).

What you're describing is mindless hate, not whining. Whining can be as well-thought-out as you like, there's nothing inherently stupid about it.

 

[Luna]

Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.

No. Complaining contains valid criticism. Whining is just needless and annoying.

You don't approve of the criticism because of your own personal feelings that it is needless and annoying, so you call it whining, because you don't approve of it.

 

[FalloutJack]

People getting easily offended and whatnot.

I TAKE OFFENSE AT THAT!! I- Naw, I kid.

And now, for no reason.

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

One problem is, no one can quite define what whining *is.*

Some people seem to think it's repeated complaints. Some think the complaints have to be baseless. Some think that anyone without a perfectly logically structured formal argument is whining. (The last people there piss me off a lot.)

In the end, I'd say I define it as repeated complaints even after the situation has long since passed. I don't mind a little whining, on my part or others', but it should be short and cathartic, not long and obnoxious.

 

[theSteamSupported]

I'm so sick of everyone whining about whining.

 

[Dr Jones]

Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.

No. Complaining contains valid criticism. Whining is just needless and annoying.

You don't approve of the criticism because of your own personal feelings that it is needless and annoying, so you call it whining, because you don't approve of it.

No, that's just plain wrong. If we assume the individual we are talking of is mature enough to accept other's viewpoints, he will not call it whining.

It's the same as saying "idiot is just another word people use for people that don't share their viewpoints".

I reckon most people capable of looking objectively at a case, will not call a legit complaint "whining" because they disagree.
Most people call petulance whining.

 

[DioWallachia]

Didnt Jim Sterling did a video about the benefits of whining? and being childish in response to when the oponents are childish and incapable of taking criticism?

Yep, and I saw it. It is sad, but true. Its one of the reason why I don't believe in the concept of 'growing up.

Are you sure you saw the video? because the reason the whinning worked to begin with is because the other side of the converzation DIDNT want to listen in the first place by diplomacy and logic.

THEY are the ones not growing up, not us.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Whining I consider to be ineffectual, annoying and insubstantial complaining.

Complaining can encompass a number of ways, including whining, raging, and arguing, but often has a hint of whining.

Raging I consider to be ineffectual, indignant, loud and often insubtantial complaining, although it can have a base in genuine criticism.

Arguing, criticising and discussing are the way to get things done. These involve actual arguments or criticisms that are substantial, and can provoke intelligent response. Arguing often has a hint of raging and can be less substantial, discussing invokes a more diplomatic approach, and criticising often leans towards the negative rather than emphasising the positive, but these are all valid and constructive things to do.

That's how I see it. But people still have the right to whine. Doesn't mean anyone else has to care.

 

[Luna]

Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism.

No. Complaining contains valid criticism. Whining is just needless and annoying.

You don't approve of the criticism because of your own personal feelings that it is needless and annoying, so you call it whining, because you don't approve of it.

No, that's just plain wrong. If we assume the individual we are talking of is mature enough to accept other's viewpoints, he will not call it whining.

I don't see how that negates the truth that is, "Whining is just a word people use for criticism when they don't approve of the criticism." If this person is mature enough to accept others viewpoints then they won't accuse the person of whining. But if, as I said, they disapprove of it, then they will label it as such.

It's the same as saying "idiot is just another word people use for people that don't share their viewpoints".

tbh that is part of the reason why people call others idiots. Other cases include carelessness or inability to complete basic tasks.

I reckon most people capable of looking objectively at a case, will not call a legit complaint "whining" because they disagree.
Most people call petulance whining.

In many cases an objective view is impossible because of natural human bias. What is legitimate? One man's legitimacy for complaining is another man's suck it up and stop complaining.

But you have a point. If a person has a complaint about something, but it turns out that the thing they had a complaint about never happened, we would say the person is misinformed, (or delusional), rather than calling them a whiner. But if they have a complaint based on facts that you acknowledge, that you disapprove of, then it's pretty much whining.