In the war of toxic masculinity vs Trump badmouthing, toxic masculinity has lost.

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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So @Gethsemani, there's an anecdote to counter your claim. But both can be true. They can be both tight-knit and rough with each-other.
To what extent is that perhaps just a learnt behaviour, though? Maybe it doesn't actually serve any true purpose, it just started, and it's continued as an institutional habit, passed from veteran to recruit.

I agree with Gethsemani's claim that I think hazings, and all sorts of extreme toughness are actually attempts to break people down so they can be remodelled. But of course if they are being remodelled, the model they've been built around originated from emotional and physical hardship. So perhaps that stuff simply becomes the new thing to bond around. It doesn't have to be that way, and it doesn't make them any better at their jobs. It's basically just what they were taught to be.
 

Houseman

Mad Hatter Meme Machine.
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To what extent is that perhaps just a learnt behaviour, though? Maybe it doesn't actually serve any true purpose, it just started, and it's continued as an institutional habit, passed from veteran to recruit.
Perhaps, but it seems pretty intuitive to me. Would you trust someone to pull through a really difficult situation if they can't even handle the much-less difficult situation of being teased?

I agree with Gethsemani's claim that I think hazings, and all sorts of extreme toughness are actually attempts to break people down so they can be remodelled
I think what drill instructors do, and what buddies/co-workers do to each-other are two different things. This might be the former, but I was talking more about the latter.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Perhaps, but it seems pretty intuitive to me. Would you trust someone to pull through a really difficult situation if they can't even handle the much-less difficult situation of being teased?
Potentially, yes: because the test may be on different aspects of psychology. A person may be prepared to face huge physical danger, but also find the prospect of humilation unbearable. Imagine say a fighter who will step into a ring and compete with composure, but lose it if cheated on by his or her lover. Or vice versa, someone who never minds being the butt of a joke, but no way is going to charge that bunker.

I think you need to ensure that a soldier will endure a reasonable amount of pain, discomfort and stress, and is prepared to put themselves at risk to get a job done. It's just not clear to me that roughhousing and mockery as part of their daily professional experience achieves that. I think that's more likely to be a trust and bonding thing: prove you can be one of gang.

I think what drill instructors do, and what buddies/co-workers do to each-other are two different things. This might be the former, but I was talking more about the latter.
Accepted. I just think that perhaps the culture of co-workers is often "arbitrary". It doesn't serve a purpose (or the purpose could easily be achieved in other ways), it just starts from whatever background and continues on its own momentum.