Incest, explain your stance without bringing up genetics.

[chinangel]

Yup, one of these threads again, but with a stipulation. Having been involved in several incest threads I watch as people keep quoting genetics over and over which makes me roll my eyes, as I find it to be a scapegoat excuse.

So...you think it's wrong or right? Explain why, without bringing genetics into the discussion.

Personally? I have no problem with incest at all, I've even experimented a little with it myself, so I'm not really weirded out by it at all.

EDIT: And one again it all came back to genetics.

I find this interesting because really...why the hell does genetics matter? We already have many people in this world who give birth to genetically defective babies, and yet they are allowed to continue to procreate despite this.

So to me the 'genetics' argument fails.

Secondly...what I decide to do with my genetics shouldn't matter to you and vices versa. I also saw someone bring up the problem of children being groomed, which is a completely different problem altogether.

So yeah, it seems that largely people's problem with this comes down to 'its icky'

 

[Eleuthera]

Two words: consenting adults

As long as that's the case, go wild!

 

[JoJo]

It isn't my cup of tea, so to speak, but I'm not in the business of telling consenting adults who they can and can't fuck simply because it yucks me out.

 

[Stasisesque]

I find it... a little unpleasant. I can't justify that feeling, and I wouldn't go out of my way to judge someone who engaged in it, nor would I treat them differently from those who hadn't. Much the same way I get a little squicked out at the thought of two very old people having sex, I can't help but find myself thinking, "ew".

I'm an only child with no cousins my age (save one, and she is a not a great person), so my only real comparisons when it comes to incestuous relationships would be with my parents, or uncles. Really do not enjoy the thought of finding any of them sexually or romantically attractive. However, like a lot of little girls, when I was very very little I wanted to marry my dad, so there is obviously something to incestuous relationships even if in my case I feel grossed out by the idea.

I've had friends who have fancied their cousins, even experimented with them sexually, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Siblings is a little iffy, but it may be because I've never had any. Any other relationships, however, I find more difficult to deal with.

 

[Vegosiux]

Two words: consenting adults

I'll one-up you with an abbreviation.

SSC.

(and to be on the safe side, the "C" should hold in the legal meaning, not just "both parties said yes, whether or not that's legal consent")

 

[hazabaza1]

It's fucking creepy and weird and I don't like the idea of it but if someone wants to then whatever.

 

[Andy Shandy]

It;s fun for the whole family!

OT: It's weird. I mean, I'm not going to try and stop anyone, two consenting adults can do whatever they want, but I'm also allowed to think it's weird as all hell fucking your own relatives.

 

[Quaxar]

Well, genetics pretty much is the only real argument against it. And by that I mean the proper genetics of sustained incest over generations, not everyone's favourite "spontaneous mutant baby".

On the other hand I personally wouldn't care to outlaw it, societal and psychological factors are good deterrences already. But in my country's case at least rename it. Did you know that in Austrian criminal law the paragraph about incest (§211 StGB if anyone cares) has the same name as the Nazi policy forbidding relations between Aryans and lesser races?

Two words: consenting adults

I'll one-up you with an abbreviation.

SSC.

(and to be on the safe side, the "C" should hold in the legal meaning, not just "both parties said yes, whether or not that's legal consent")

I don't think Super Star Clusters are the best authority on incestuous relationships.

 

[Vegosiux]

I don't think Super Star Clusters are the best authority on incestuous relationships.

Well, I do not pften speak in memes, but

Good thing you didn't bring up Serpentshrine Cavern. I still have memories of that place (that also have nothing to do with incest, mind).

Did you know that in Austrian criminal law the paragraph about incest (§211 StGB if anyone cares) has the same name as the Nazi policy forbidding relations between Aryans and lesser races?

I did not know that, interesting.

 

[purplecactus]

Two words: consenting adults

As long as that's the case, go wild!

Pretty much that ^ I wouldn't personally, but what I wouldn't and wouldn't do has never really had much bearing on what I think others should and shouldn't do.

I have to admit, I do get increasingly pissed off when people use arguments like 'they shouldn't because it's gross' to justify something.

If that did work, then I'd love to make peppers illegal. Horrible, nasty things that they are

 

[omega 616]

This smacks a little of "talk about gun control without mentioning deaths from guns". Kind of taking the argument out of the argument there.

If both parties are like "lets do it rat style" then who am I to stop them? I would advise going out of the family though, just to keep things simple (my daddy is also my uncle) and your family would find itself the point of ridicule if things went public.

I would say there might be a mix up of the word "love" if you're (wanting to) making love to a relative.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

I'd still oppose it in general. On a case by case basis there would be occasions where it is perfectly acceptable (genetics aside), but to allow it generally would be to ignore issues such as grooming and coercion.

To expand on that; it is all very well to say 'two consenting adults'. However, for me to consider it as consent, the parties must be equal and there must be no external pressure. This is unlikely to be the case within a family. Two siblings separated at birth, who are inexplicably infertile. Knock yourself out. A father-daughter relationship where he holds economic and social power over her. Hell to the no.
(In case you're wondering, yes I also think teacher-student relationships are unacceptable even if they are both at consent giving age)

Also genetics.

 

[Professor Lupin Madblood]

Two words: consenting adults

I'll one-up you with an abbreviation.

SSC.

(and to be on the safe side, the "C" should hold in the legal meaning, not just "both parties said yes, whether or not that's legal consent")

Pretty much.

Also, (w)incest is super hot, if internet porn comics are any indication.

What?

 

[Hazy992]

My only argument is genetics really. You shouldn't be having children with people closely related with you as it just causes problems and it's unfair on the child.

Other than that? As weird and creepy as I find it, as long as it's consensual then knock yourselves out.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

So you're handicapping the argument by ignoring the most important reasons against it? That's like trying to discuss the argument against pedophilia but prohibiting the mention of law. And to think that the genetic argument is just a scapegoat indicates that you don't understand genetics and the slew of medical complications that come with inbred progeny.

But if you're just talking about a sexual adventure with your siblings and not having a child. That to me is just gross, just like two dudes going at it is gross. I don't oppose it, but I sure as hell don't want to get involved or see it. There's nothing sexually appealing about it to me.

 

[BeeGeenie]

This smacks a little of "talk about gun control without mentioning deaths from guns". Kind of taking the argument out of the argument there.

If both parties are like "lets do it rat style" then who am I to stop them? I would advise going out of the family though, just to keep things simple (my daddy is also my uncle) and your family would find itself the point of ridicule if things went public.

I would say there might be a mix up of the word "love" if you're (wanting to) making love to a relative.

^This. You can't talk about it without genetics, because genetics are fundamental to the issue.
Male humans are genetically designed to mate with any female that happens to be available, and relatives are most likely to be in close proximity. (Obviously, that doesn't mean they have to act on it, or even that it is common, just that the behavior is an aberration of a genetically programmed behavior)
Also, because people tend to be attracted to people that are similar to them (chemistry), and you can't get much more similar than 50% identical.

You just can't talk about sexuality without talking genetics. Genetics control sexuality, and sexuality controls genetics.

 

[GangstaGeek]

Well first off ignoring genetics, its kind of fucked up. I mean most animals with above average intellegence don't have those relationships so why should you. It's not really a "moral" issue as much as a sign of a deeper underlying issue. The rate that incest is a actual functional relationship based on love and trust is pretty rare to begin with as is usually just arranged or a political marriage in most parts of the world. I obviously can't stop people from doing it, but your gonna get called a creep whether you like it or not.

 

[MammothBlade]

In principle, I am okay with it. There is no ethical reason to stop consenting individuals, even relations, from having intimate encounters - though it's not something that occurs usually.

 

[TheBlueShotgun0]

If you don't factor in genetics, then incest is perfectly fine.

Though I suppose that's like saying that the Nazi's were a fine group, if you forget about the racism and antisemitism.

I can't really advocate it because of the genetic reasons, but if two mature adults choose to take that risk and accept any consequences then they have that freedom.

 

[Krantos]

Explain why, without bringing genetics into the discussion.

Why? I mean, seriously? Why exclude what is, generally speaking, the strongest case against it? Morally, it's a very gray area that pretty much comes down to what someone personally believes (provided it's consenting adults). Excluding genetics from an incest discussion is like excluding connectivity issues from an Alway Online DRM discussion. It's kind of the central problem.

I mean really, aside from "My personal beliefs say x" what kind of insight are you hoping to receive?