I'm fine with it, as long as both parties are consenting and understand the consequences of incest. I've heard (But was unable to find substantiation for in my 5 minutes of googling) about psychological impact upon those who engage in incest without the freedom to leave, as in under 18. Also, don't have children, as they do have a higher chance of having something like polydactily or hemophilia (which is a problem with blood not clotting properly, NOT the sexual attraction to blood.
These are bad things to have happen to your kid, so use condoms, adopt, or if you really want to give birth sign up for becoming a surrogate. The probability of a single genetic disorder appearing, and there are a lot of them between a brother-sister is 6.25%, then of 5 common disorders, which results in a 35% chance of one offspring having certain recessive genetic disorders that are unbelievably improbable in non-incestuous relationships. Technology can solve these problems simply by using birth control and adopting or becoming a surrogate.
As long as you don't have kids and are both consenting, then i'm fine with it.
If someone's parents are brother and sister, what keeps the child from thinking it's not okay to mess around with their younger siblings once the parents have more children?
And it's not? If we are already talking about whether or not incest is moral, then "no because they would have children and teach them too that it's moral"
Besides, I think we are talking about adopted or otherwise non-related children, (maybe half-siblings), after we just concluded that siblings having their own children together would be a bad idea.
And yes, this is a progressive, scientific website that also demands for acceptance and tolerance of homosexual and transgender parents and family, as the only downsides are related to other peoples bigotry. That article addresses the brother-sister consensual stuff to.
The probelm with this article, as far as relating it to the topic at hand, is that it is referring to incest due to sexual abuse. Any sexual abuse is going to be traumatic and scarring, having it done by a family member only makes it worse. I think the OP and most of the people posting here are questioning if there is any harm done when incest occurs between two people who choose to do it, not when one coerces or forces another into it.
Myself, I am an only child and lived away from pretty much all my family my whole life, minus about two weeks a year when we'd visit family. I think there was only one time where I fantasized about a cousin of mine, but I chalk that up to being a really horny teenager that had never had any sexual experience and just wondered what sex would be like. We were a lot alike, which is why I think my mind latched onto her for the fantasy. The fantasy went away pretty much as soon as that visit was over and never came back.
I find the thought of sibling incest acceptable, and maybe even a little arousing, again as long as it is consensual. Parent-child incest though seems wrong to me. It seems to much like taking advantage of your child to do such a thing. Would I be in an incestuous relationship? The point is moot now as I am happily married, but if I had grown up with a sister...I just don't know.
Immoral? No, as a utilitarian I would judge it a fairly morally neutral act. Creepy? Ohhhh yes. So very very creepy. That said what I find creepy is fairly irrelavent, there is no objective creepiness. So no judgement, but I certainly would never even contamplate it. Also there is some reason for us to be coded to avoid famial relationships, afterall incest harms biological diversity and can lead to birth defects. Of course humans are complex creatures and we genrally don't have absolute hard line codes.
Look man, I know it's Emma Watson, but she'd be your SISTER!
And as crazy as it may sound, my disgust for incest overpowers the fact that she'd be Emma Watson.
For the most part, I consider it gross on a personal level directly. On an indirect personal level, I sort of see it in the same way that I look at homosexuality.
And that's the whole focus seems to be on the sex angle and only the sex angle. Sure, it's a big part of it. Of course. But who is to say that family members couldn't fall in love with each other? Or people of the same sex couldn't do the same?
What if there's real love there? Isn't everyone in society and shit always going on about "you can't help who you fall in love with?"
So it's like, when people have asked me if I would find my siblings or cousins attractive or date them or whatever if we weren't related, I can only be filled with distaste and say I'm not sure because I'm still seeing them with sister eyes and eww... For me.
But when I read a book or see those anime where the romantic love is there and it's all unfortunate and even a little tragic, I don't truly think it's gross and if it's supposed to be immoral I just don't understand why.
The whole kiddy incest thing might be okay, I often hear about kids playing "doctor" not with sexual intent (I guess? since they're too young and don't understand) but just out of curiosity.
Nope. It's been proven that children engage in sexual role-play and often develop fascination with sexuality at very young ages (I'm thinking just after the toddler years and in grade-school, but I couldn't specifically cite number off the top of my head). It goes beyond playing doctor, and is often actually reflective on perceived gender roles (playing house for example). I saw a fascinating study on this years ago, where they observed boys and girls having sleep overs, and the sexual jargon among them when they thought they were not being filmed. Among these was a girl, I think 4-6 years, wanting a costume to look like Jasmine from Aladdin because she "liked the sexy of it".
As for incest, often it begins with siblings of the opposite sex. It's actually also totally normal, or so I've read.
Another fun fact: incest is often the most prevalent sexual fantasy people indulge in around the world. Again, I can't cite from off the top of my head (this was also something I learned about more than a decade ago). So for all it's detractors, myself included, go figure.
Interesting. I can sort of attest to this. I think I was maybe 6 when I started 'playing doctor' not just with cousins but with neighbors and such. Kids do a lot of sexual exploration at young ages without full on intercourse. Er at least I did I should say.
Generally full intercourse is not possible because prepubescent boys haven't physically developed the ability to perform sexually, though erection is possible, but in those cases often spontaneous and fleeting.
Contrary to this, however, sexual play between children, same or opposite gendered, is often very explicit. It's more than simple questions, conversation, or observation, many children engage in what can be construed as highly sexual activity, but because it's more of a developmental act than a reproductive one the intent, connotation, consequences, and 3rd party perception are often left unspoken or even treated dismissively. As if parents refuse to accept their child is a sexual being at even a very early age, mistaking the idea of the child being a sexual being with the child having a sexual identity or preference. Again it's also very natural an and healthy, and should not be treated otherwise (or the parent will risk damaging the child emotionally and sexually).
I can't figure why incest is so popular, but it is. I understand, however, that boys that grow up with a sister around their age more likely to develop or grow into a healthier sexual life as an adult. They are also often more emotionally balanced because of the experience of having a sister (more about understanding the stages of differing sexuality by the independent genders and developing accordingly).
I couldn't say anything regarding homosexual children though, since nothing I've read discusses that to any real detail, and often the information regarding childhood homosexuality are biased either for or against it, and therefore not very reliable.
Again, incestuous feelings are extremely common, and generally they have some broadly accepted psychiatric reasoning behind this. Most often those feelings are male toward mother or sister, or female toward father. In many ways this can simply be attributed to our nature, and how our complex minds will often do what they want, whether we agree with these feelings or thoughts is irrelevant, it just happens.
Entitled said:
Icehearted said:
Another fun fact: incest is often the most prevalent sexual fantasy people indulge in around the world. Again, I can't cite from off the top of my head (this was also something I learned about more than a decade ago). So for all it's detractors, myself included, go figure.
Also, it's interesting that incest as a fetish, is often unrelated to sexual attraction to one's relatives.
For example I wasn't ever attracted to my sisters (I don't even like them as people), but I always found brother-sister incest stories titillating. It's hard to explain, but there is just something truly romantic about a relationship between two people who are so close together, wo loved each other in their whole lives, and them taking it to a next level even against all taboos.
That is so contradicting and funny though. You don't like your sisters as people, but find the idea of a powerful bond with a sister "truly romantic". That's generally the hitch as I understand it. We are programmed against incest for all kinds of very good and valid reasons (don't consider me a supporter, I think it's incredibly harmful to everyone). These aside, we tend to most commonly resent our siblings, whatever their gender. We get along, many love their sisters or brothers, but usually anything even remotely close to a sexual attraction is not likely or even impossible.
Now if one didn't grow up with their siblings one could see how this might be a possibility to a degree. I wonder if even our brains can pick up on subtle hints of relation and discard attraction accordingly.
The main reason people are naturally opposed to it is for survival reasons. Incest babies aren't good for the species. But I suppose if both are consenting adults and no offspring arise, theres nothing wrong with it
I might be a little late to reply to this party, but meh.
Years and years ago I remember a blog. This was before there were websites like "blogger". It was just some girls webpage used as a current day weblog.
This blog was written by a girl who did incest with her dad, mother, and I believe a brother as well. She wrote very interesting stuff about how close she was to her family, both figuratively and literally speaking. I wouldn't hesitate to say she loved it and wouldn't have it any other way.
She spoke of how people denouce it despite the only reason being they had been brought up and told it was bad. And that logically speaking, if you take pregnancy out of the equation, there is no argument against incest purely for any other reason.
As some amount of time went on I remember reading she was closing up shop because she was beginning to get loads of hatemail about how wrong she was and clearly must have something wrong with her, among lots of other hatemail.
I really wish I could recall the name of the blog or something, this being the internet and all, I don't doubt a copy of her writing still exists somewhere, but I doubt I'll ever find it.
Would I engage in it IRL? No, don't have any desire too. Is the very thought of it in general arousing for me? Yes.
My guilty pleasure is E-lit. Some of the best ones I've read have been incest themed (Like "Luke & Amy" and "The Neighborhood", if you know where to look, you'll find them, they're very good, and very long, like over 100 pages long).
Personally, what people (consensually) do in their own lives is their business, let them do what they want, whatever makes them happy; but I draw the line at bringing another life into the world.
I'm not going to scour the internet for studies and so-called facts on this one, but my gut tells me that if you're the kind of person that would engage in sexual activities with a family member, you're going to have different expectations about how the world works around you. Some of those expectations might be more subtle than others, but I can't imagine being in love with a sibling/parent, and then trying to find a suitable partner afterwards that would line up to those previous expectations. I share a very strong bond with my family, so I can try to empathize with an incester. If I mix the feel of that bond with my family with my image of an ideal partner, I get something so impossible to conceive it's like a fucking unicorn. I'd never find anyone in my life that I could see loving that much. That's the kind of thing is what screws people up.
and you can't 100% guarantee that mutant babies wouldn't happen. If that happens, then it isn't harmless anymore, someone has to live their life messed up because of your poor choices.
The same could be said about absolutely any couple and is a ridiculous thing to try and hang your hat on in making incest illegal or taboo. And the implication that a child growing up with some genetic disorder can't have an perfectly enjoyable life is kind of offensive.
First off, you're not going to convince me the average couple has anywhere the same chances of conceiving a child with a disorder as a couple from the same family. You don't get to make babies out of your selfish needs and still remain the shining hero if it pops out a hemophiliac. In this world, where I see every parent accused of being terrible parents for doing anything like taking their eyes off of their kids long enough to let them playfully wreck the house, or forget about their spray tan long enough before breast feeding so that the baby's face is orange afterward, there is no room for that kind of parent to willfully take those risks. Just adopt a kid for goodness sake! And of course the kid can grow up happy, but it will be because he never knew anything better than what he was handed, not because living their whole live with disease is something to enjoy.
Trust me dude, there isn't a lot of wiggle-room in this argument. I have always strived to not allow personal aversions and biases to cloud my judgement on issues of sex. Hell, I can't come up with a convincing argument against bestiality (larger animals only. Of course hurting the smaller ones is criminal), but following down this path seems like nothing but welcoming trouble.
And before I finish, I should add that I have seen second-hand how incest changes people. I don't know 100% for sure if there was actual sex going on between members, but there was some very, very strange habits from that family. Like for example how the 4 eldest daughters never had a boy friend, and were unable to separate themselves from their dad at 30 years old, despite living with a total of 8 siblings. I was welcomed to use the bathroom with the door open because we all had what God gave us and it was nothing to be ashamed of. Privacy was an alien concept to them, and that's the kind of thing that I was hinting at above if they ever got out into the real world.
and i don't see why it wouldn't. after all it is legal to marry in some places. then again i am speaking on a subject that i have no knowledge on so who knows.
Ah, the old gut feeling defense. Sorry, but I'll just go ahead and ignore anything you have to say about the psychology of someone willing to engage in incest then since no evidence means your thoughts on the matter are unfounded conjecture and speculation, nothing more.
First off, you're not going to convince me the average couple has anywhere the same chances of conceiving a child with a disorder as a couple from the same family.
Why would I when the risks of a child being born with a genetic disorder are higher than the average couple? But they're not that much higher. The actual risk level, not to mention the severity of the genetic conditions these children are likely to be subjected to are blown out of proportion by people who don't actually know squat about genetics.
You don't get to make babies out of your selfish needs and still remain the shining hero if it pops out a hemophiliac. In this world, where I see every parent accused of being terrible parents for doing anything like taking their eyes off of their kids long enough to let them playfully wreck the house, or forget about their spray tan long enough before breast feeding so that the baby's face is orange afterward, there is no room for that kind of parent to willfully take those risks. Just adopt a kid for goodness sake! And of course the kid can grow up happy, but it will be because he never knew anything better than what he was handed, not because living their whole live with disease is something to enjoy.
Not going to lie, this argument is not only ridiculous, but borderline offensive. First off, you can't argue that a couple engaging in an incestuous relationship and producing a child are irresponsible for it unless you're prepared to argue that every single person carrying the genes for various disorders is just as irresponsible. In fact, I'd say most other parents are more irresponsible since few will ever get genetic testing done before having a child and may be carriers for some pretty terrible conditions. And this says nothing of incestuous couples who may not actually be more likely to pass on a condition than the average couple. The odds are statistically higher only because if one carries a gene it's more likely the other does as well, but it doesn't mean that they definitely do. Holding one group to a higher standard than another based on nothing more than personal disgust with what they do is absurd.
And before I finish, I should add that I have seen second-hand how incest changes people. I don't know 100% for sure if there was actual sex going on between members, but there was some very, very strange habits from that family. Like for example how the 4 eldest daughters never had a boy friend, and were unable to separate themselves from their dad at 30 years old, despite living with a total of 8 siblings. I was welcomed to use the bathroom with the door open because we all had what God gave us and it was nothing to be ashamed of. Privacy was an alien concept to them, and that's the kind of thing that I was hinting at above if they ever got out into the real world.
Your little anecdote is irrelevant to this discussion. From what you've said here, you can't confirm an incestuous relationship actually existed, only that this family was kind of strange. And even if there was anything sexual going on, you have no way of knowing if they were strange because of incest or because there was some abuse or something else going on.
You say you try not to let your personal aversions and biases cloud your judgement on matters of sex but from where I'm standing, I'm sorry to say it looks like you've failed miserably in that regard where this matter is concerned. Instead of arguing facts or actual risk rates, you've argued gut feelings and anecdotal examples which may have nothing to do with, or have more going on, than the subject at hand. You haven't approached this subject rationally or logically at all from what I can see.
Ah, the old gut feeling defense. Sorry, but I'll just go ahead and ignore anything you have to say about the psychology of someone willing to engage in incest then since no evidence means your thoughts on the matter are unfounded conjecture and speculation, nothing more.
First off, you're not going to convince me the average couple has anywhere the same chances of conceiving a child with a disorder as a couple from the same family.
Why would I when the risks of a child being born with a genetic disorder are higher than the average couple? But they're not that much higher. The actual risk level, not to mention the severity of the genetic conditions these children are likely to be subjected to are blown out of proportion by people who don't actually know squat about genetics.
You don't get to make babies out of your selfish needs and still remain the shining hero if it pops out a hemophiliac. In this world, where I see every parent accused of being terrible parents for doing anything like taking their eyes off of their kids long enough to let them playfully wreck the house, or forget about their spray tan long enough before breast feeding so that the baby's face is orange afterward, there is no room for that kind of parent to willfully take those risks. Just adopt a kid for goodness sake! And of course the kid can grow up happy, but it will be because he never knew anything better than what he was handed, not because living their whole live with disease is something to enjoy.
Not going to lie, this argument is not only ridiculous, but borderline offensive. First off, you can't argue that a couple engaging in an incestuous relationship and producing a child are irresponsible for it unless you're prepared to argue that every single person carrying the genes for various disorders is just as irresponsible. In fact, I'd say most other parents are more irresponsible since few will ever get genetic testing done before having a child and may be carriers for some pretty terrible conditions. And this says nothing of incestuous couples who may not actually be more likely to pass on a condition than the average couple. The odds are statistically higher only because if one carries a gene it's more likely the other does as well, but it doesn't mean that they definitely do. Holding one group to a higher standard than another based on nothing more than personal disgust with what they do is absurd.
And before I finish, I should add that I have seen second-hand how incest changes people. I don't know 100% for sure if there was actual sex going on between members, but there was some very, very strange habits from that family. Like for example how the 4 eldest daughters never had a boy friend, and were unable to separate themselves from their dad at 30 years old, despite living with a total of 8 siblings. I was welcomed to use the bathroom with the door open because we all had what God gave us and it was nothing to be ashamed of. Privacy was an alien concept to them, and that's the kind of thing that I was hinting at above if they ever got out into the real world.
Your little anecdote is irrelevant to this discussion. From what you've said here, you can't confirm an incestuous relationship actually existed, only that this family was kind of strange. And even if there was anything sexual going on, you have no way of knowing if they were strange because of incest or because there was some abuse or something else going on.
You say you try not to let your personal aversions and biases cloud your judgement on matters of sex but from where I'm standing, I'm sorry to say it looks like you've failed miserably in that regard where this matter is concerned. Instead of arguing facts or actual risk rates, you've argued gut feelings and anecdotal examples which may have nothing to do with, or have more going on, than the subject at hand. You haven't approached this subject rationally or logically at all from what I can see.
Ironic thing is, while you're calling me an offensive irrational bigot, you're failing to provide the exact same counter-evidence you accuse me of failing to provide. You're just harassing me at this point, so just stop.
I feel it's fine, and yeah i would dabble in it if i had a milf for a mom or a decent looking sister.
The way i see it is that if it's consensual and everyone is interested in it, then it's perfectly fine, i won't get into the genetics portion of things because that always leads to pointless arguments over something that's really not a big deal.
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