Indie Dev Admits to Gaming Ouya Fund, Loses the Money

[Smooth Operator]

Oh you poor babe, all the scam work put in and then it's not even rewarded... dude what you are doing there is fraud, be glad all the parties you were hustling aren't coming down on your ass with lawsuits.

And no, others scamming the system does not make it ok for you also.

 

[dynath]

See the whole trouble with being upset about this entire scenario is that we don't know what really happened. Yeah the grid iron people might have committed fraud, this guy might have committed fraud. People are mad at Ouya for not being mad fraud was committed. They punish someone for maybe committing fraud based on the guy's own admissions he might have done something wrong. And yet the still catch flack. I'm sorry Ouya's free the games fund was a bad idea from the start. These sites like Kickstarter and indiegogo don't do a great job of communicating or documenting anyway so all that is left up to the project leaders. Ouya taking the project dev's word on how much they made and from home was stupid to begin with. No offense but devs make games they don't organize projects or make businesses. Couple that with the fact that the internet is filled with amoral vipers and you get this exact scenario. A predictable, mess that no one bothered to imagine could happen when you offer free money to complete strangers so long as they have some money to start.

 

[1337mokro]

This isn't actually gaming the system. You see when you game the system you don't come clean with the facts. I don't rob a liquor store then go back to the liquor store bragging that I robbed them yesterday. To me it seems like they were hoping for the Ouya fund, so they set the bar low. Sadly as with all kickstarters it is mostly based on the amount of exposure you have. The kind of game you are making. The names tied to the game and so on. So when this not that good looking game from unknown devs hit the market nobody was interested. So the dude went shopping around the family book to get an investor.

I don't think I have to tell you how many games got programmed in the early days thanks to mom and pop graciously renting out their basement to their kid, do I? So to me this sounds a bit sketchy on both sides. First off all it doesn't seem logical to do the kickstarter if you could have just gone to your dad. On the other hand they most likely calculated the doubled funds into the decision and that's probably also why the dad putt up the cash.

They had an actual game, with some footage and recognizably put themselves in front of the camera so I don't think this is intended fraud. This was just a TOS line #3674 type of violation which in reality makes little sense.

The dude was upfront with the information. This wasn't like with other actual fraud kickstarters where we had a lone redditor or inside guy post information about how this is all a fraud. No he literally updated the status with "My dad graciously agreed to donate the remaining amount to help us release this game."

Ouya were ready to fund this project anyway, so why does it matter who puts in the money? You simply put in a section that states that in case of fraudulent spending the entire amount will be incurred upon the initial recipient. Basically signing them into debt to you.

 

[lacktheknack]

"It appears we were thrown under the FTG bus. Ouya gets their fall guy and Grid Iron keeps their money. So while a bunch of ex-EA employees with rich friends can apparently receive $171,000 in match funds for a game they, allegedly, already finished. A person whose father was willing to make a large sacrifice so his son's team could qualify for the fund and actually develop their game properly is disallowed," he continued. "If we had remained silent we very likely would have received the funds, our transparency and honesty apparently was our undoing."

I'm pretty sure that "Dropping 50G for Ouya support money" was your undoing.

Gridiron Thunder notwithstanding, you committed fraud and you lost your funding for it. I think Gridiron Thunder should also get hit for it, but so should you.

Being wrong while someone nearby is more wrong... makes you wrong.

 

[lacktheknack]

Ouya is technically within its rights to cancel Dungeons' funding, but there's no question in my mind that the Dungeons team was technically within its rights to do what it did to gain that funding in the first place. There's nothing in the rules that says family members can't donate, or that backers are limited to a certain amount, or that specifies where the money must come from. Gridiron Thunder backers kicked in nearly $1000 a pop on average, a hell of an amount for a mobile game, yet that's somehow perfectly fine. The Dungeons developers' only "crime" was to acknowledge what everybody already knew.

The developers gamed the system but Ouya left the loophole for it to step through, and worse, failed to close it when it became obvious that people were taking advantage. Its cancellation of the Dungeons funding is utterly arbitrary, and thus unfair - and in my eyes it looks far worse on Ouya than on the Dungeons team.

I was angry at Ouya when they failed to close the loophole, but I'm also angry at people who then use it.

And make no mistake, he definitely DID abuse the loophole. He wasn't able to raise even close to enough money to justify him taking the Ouya donation for the game, and managed to get someone to pump up the total specifically to take Ouya's money.

Yeah, I can see why Ouya screwed him over.

Now, is Gridiron Thunder going to take the fall as well?

 

[ecoho]

It is not called gaming the system it's called fraud. The McDonald's actively conspired to artificially inflate the kickstarter fund for the purpose of obtaining money from Ouya. If the McDonald's thought that was legal is not perternat to fact of the fraud, ignorance is not a defense in the eyes of the law

its not fraud man its called a legal loophole. Using a loophole in a contract is not illegal just scummy but what the ouya did by canceling the contract can be seen as a breach on their part and they can and most likely will be sued for the remainder of cash they are owed.

Seeking to obtain money by deception is known as fraud.

you don't get it they cant call it fraud because there is no proof that the money donated by the devs father would not have been used in the making of the game. Now had they waited till the game was shipped ouya could have charged them with fraud assuming they didn't use the 50k donated for marketing and such. so now ouya is in the wrong here in the eyes of the law and are going to get screwed because they forgot to close their loopholes.

 

[Frezzato]

Yeah, fraud or not, his admission confirms violation of Ouya's contest rules [http://www.freethegamesfund.com/rules.html], which may have been altered after the fact (which is fine because they reserve that right), but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt anyway:

"2. Number of Backers. For every $10,000 raised on Kickstarter, have a minimum of 100 backers."

So $54,067 requires at least 500 different backers.

[...]

In other words, everyone in this story is an idiot.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Baldr]

Yeah, fraud or not, his admission confirms violation of Ouya's contest rules [http://www.freethegamesfund.com/rules.html], which may have been altered after the fact (which is fine because they reserve that right), but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt anyway:

"2. Number of Backers. For every $10,000 raised on Kickstarter, have a minimum of 100 backers."

So $54,067 requires at least 500 different backers.

[...]

In other words, everyone in this story is an idiot.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Rule #2 was created TODAY. So he was in his right up until today. The only other game that was successfully funded before that rule was created also lost it's money today, that was the other game mentioned in the article, Gridiron Thunder.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Yeah, fraud or not, his admission confirms violation of Ouya's contest rules [http://www.freethegamesfund.com/rules.html], which may have been altered after the fact (which is fine because they reserve that right), but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt anyway:

"2. Number of Backers. For every $10,000 raised on Kickstarter, have a minimum of 100 backers."

So $54,067 requires at least 500 different backers.

[...]

In other words, everyone in this story is an idiot.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Rule #2 was created TODAY. So he was in his right up until today. The only other game that was successfully funded before that rule was created also lost it's money today, that was the other game mentioned in the article, Gridiron Thunder.

And that very much fits with his statement that "Ouya has decided to change the rules on us." Imposing retroactive rule changes that negatively impact people who played by the rules that Ouya established in the first place is much closer to fraud than what the Dungeons team did. At this point I honestly don't understand how any reputable developer would want to have anything to do with it.

 

[Frezzato]

Rule #2 was created TODAY. So he was in his right up until today. The only other game that was successfully funded before that rule was created also lost it's money today, that was the other game mentioned in the article, Gridiron Thunder.

If my horrible math skills are correct, then even Ouya itself wouldn't have been funded in accordance with the new rules for this contest. I'm so glad I stayed away from Kickstarter, but especially Ouya.

 

[The Random One]

The fact that Gridiron Thunder 183 backers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127610-Update-Ouya-Game-Meets-Kickstarter-Goal-Controversy-Remains] on Kickstarter, further suggests that Dungeons the Eye of Draconus fell afoul of a PR campaign rather than actual rule-breaking. There's no question that McDonald and company gamed the system, but if he followed the rules, what's the justification for pulling his funding? No matter how you look at it, it's hard to see this as anything but another black eye for Ouya.

'Nuff said. The sheriff said he'll be tougher on crime by jailing vagrants while the serial killers go free.

 

[Abomination]

I've always thought the Ouya was a rather pointless device. Seems to be trying to do what both consoles and PCs already do but be a unique platform for the sake of being unique.

If it has to resort to such things to even get people to make exclusives for it and is too stupid to realize the obvious loopholes in their system I can't see it going too far.

 

[Lightknight]

It is not called gaming the system it's called fraud. The McDonald's actively conspired to artificially inflate the kickstarter fund for the purpose of obtaining money from Ouya. If the McDonald's thought that was legal is not perternat to fact of the fraud, ignorance is not a defense in the eyes of the law

Not sure if this instance is illegal. It is certainly unethical and it was good of ouya to remove the funds. But kickstarter isn't a charity or an investment company and it makes no gaurantee of services or goods to be provided. There is nothing preventing them from getting the money and then making the father a consultant and paying him $65k for doing almost nothing or whatever amount minus taxes equals $50k. It'd be better if they paid him over time as a second job so he doesn't take that huge one time contractor hit.

Sketchy as hell? Yeah. Illegal? Not necessarily. Breach of the Kickstarter terms of service? Possibly.

Great article.

The fact that Gridiron Thunder 183 backers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127610-Update-Ouya-Game-Meets-Kickstarter-Goal-Controversy-Remains] on Kickstarter, further suggests that Dungeons the Eye of Draconus fell afoul of a PR campaign rather than actual rule-breaking. There's no question that McDonald and company gamed the system, but if he followed the rules, what's the justification for pulling his funding? No matter how you look at it, it's hard to see this as anything but another black eye for Ouya.

Interestingly enough, the McDonalds do have legal recourse here. They took actions based on an offer from Ouya. That offer constitutes a legal contract and the McDonald family can pursue damages which I believe would be easy to prove. That's if they followed the conditions of the contract. Ouya being sort sighted to foresee gaming the system isn't the McDonalds' responsibility. I doubt they'd be rewarded the full amount of what they would have paid, but they'd likely get something to compensate them.