Instant gratification and sore losers

[MammothBlade]

I don't really understand why some people can't deal with losing. My friend can't stand to die in a game, or lose, or even face a challenge, because he doesn't find losing fun. Whereas winning is associated with instant gratification. Sadly this means we don't really enjoy the same kinds of games. If it's got even a hint of a learning curve or difficulty, he's out. This can be incredibly frustrating at times. Of course, this is what we call a casual mindset, perhaps.

Are you one of those people? Care to shed a little light on this?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I don't really understand why some people can't deal with losing. My friend can't stand to die in a game, or lose, or even face a challenge, because he doesn't find losing fun. Whereas winning is associated with instant gratification. Sadly this means we don't really enjoy the same kinds of games. If it's got even a hint of a learning curve or difficulty, he's out. This can be incredibly frustrating at times. Of course, this is what we call a casual mindset, perhaps.

Are you one of those people? Care to shed a little light on this?

I certainly don't enjoy losing. I can tolerate a certain amount of losing, but too much saps all the joy out of the process.

Some of it depends on the game, of course. Losing in Dwarf Fortress is sort of the point. Losing in XCOM or Mount and Blade or any other game with emergent narrative can be a treat in and of itself. Losing in a challenging strategy title, or having to repeat a difficult MMO encounter, can be bracing, so long as there isn't a ton of forced repetition. Some people are drawn to a game like Dark Souls specifically BECAUSE they enjoy the "losing".

Other games though? Ugh. Losing in a MOBA like DOTA is God's punishment for an evil world. You get stuck in a whirlpool of failure for 50 minutes while falling further and further behind.

 

[felbot]

oh this topic is going to be a whole lot of fun to watch.

anyway to answer your question, they are shit at video games, and instead of changing themselves and getting good at something they instead feel like the game should be kinder to them.

honestly I find people like that to be cancerously annoying but there's nothing I can do to stop them being awful at video games so meh.

in before "you're an elitist".

 

[Smooth Operator]

It is all about personal growth, the finer things in life take effort and one that is not ready to go there will never get to experience that.

 

[Lieju]

Well, he just doesn't find it fun, then.

Different people like different things, and different kinds of games.
But I can see how losing all the time can be unfun, especially when you're a beginner. Maybe he could suggest a game he already knows, so you could play a game where he knows what he's doing for a change?

Also, your friend doesn't have a "casual mindset"[footnote]I have already talked about how that word (along with hardcore) has been butchered.[/footnote] He just doesn't have the patience to learn about the game or losing.

I dunno, I think it's actually applicable here. Isn't playing casually just that; something you can play without a great time-investment.

 

[Stu35]

I don't really understand why some people can't deal with losing. My friend can't stand to die in a game, or lose, or even face a challenge, because he doesn't find losing fun. Whereas winning is associated with instant gratification. Sadly this means we don't really enjoy the same kinds of games. If it's got even a hint of a learning curve or difficulty, he's out. This can be incredibly frustrating at times. Of course, this is what we call a casual mindset, perhaps.

Are you one of those people? Care to shed a little light on this?

Well I certainly don't like dying, but I will accept a bit of trial and error in a game to get past a particularly challenging bit.

If I hit a brick wall though that I can't get past, and I have to repeat large areas to get to the bit I can't get past, I'll just give up and never play the game again -

Force Unleashed springs to mind on this one for me. Quit that on one of the boss battles because every time I died I had to repeat a large platformy area that required fighting my way to the boss. Couldn't be bothered after the first few attempts, never played the game since.

 

[Wargamer]

For me, a bit part of losing is context.

I have gotten back into Killzone 3 lately, and I raqequit out of multiplayer games quite often because the game does a piss-poor job of balancing matches. What sparks the ragequit can be summarised as "lack of fun potential." In other words, I raqequit when it becomes clear that not only is victory impossible, but that I can't even play the game any more because I'm just spawning into a meatgrinder.

It's fair to guess that I am not alone in this mindset. I have happily played through Resistance 2 matches where HMS Victory had long since sailed away from us, but that's because it was still fun. Resistance 2 has awesome, non-fixed spawning mechanics, which means if your team is bottled up somewhere then it will soon change your spawn and you'll pop into play outside the contain. That is AWESOME game design right there, and it's why I've happily played on in a First to 1K Kills team deathmatch despite being on a team that's 200 kills behind for most of the game.

On a similar note are games like Uncharted 3 with their 'challenges' in game. If your team pulls too far ahead you get punished; enemies do more damage, or see your team on radar, or one of you is the 'marked man' and enemies get double kills for blowing your head off. That sort of thing gives a losing side a better chance to come back into the game, which means they don't feel like it's a lost cause (and thus don't ragequit) and the winning team has to keep working for their victory.

For games that do it wrong? Killzone 3, definitely. The spawn mechanics are a nice idea on paper, but in game the fixed home bases and fixed spawns only tacticians can capture means if one side gets map control it's GG no Re. Call of Duty is, naturally, working very hard to show us all how not to make a fun gaming experience with Kill Streak bonuses. Yeah, let's make the killiest player in the game even better at killing! No. Sorry, but no. Call of Duty's kill streak mechanic is just stupid. It's not fun for anyone but the guy on the streak, it's not balanced (it is sort of in MW1, but it seems to have gone downhill from there), and it should not be done.

So, that's my take on sore losers, or bad losers, or whatever you want to call them; they probably aren't sore losers, they game just stops being fun long before the match ends.

 

[Uriain]

I put it more to a "how am I doing over all" vs "did I win" mentality. I don't mind being on the losing team, or not getting first, if I still had a good game, or even if it was a close game. The competition (for me) is much more enjoyable than the win/lose, though if given the choice, I would prefer to win.

 

[Pulse]

Point: fun
Objective: win

 

[The Wykydtron]

Well i'm that one guy on my LoL team who insists we can win when it's like 20/10 to the other team. Of course I don't like losing but that's why I play Champions who are just fun in general. Ezreal, Jayce, Lulu, maybe Katarina but that's a bit sketchy because i'm not the best with her and people like to play a nice game called "Let's Shut Down the Katarina" every time I play her :/

Notice that Ezreal and Jayce are ridiculously safe picks regardless of anything so there's that XD

Though I dunno if I fit with people who are really serious about winning. I went into a game with myself as Best Pony EUW HECARIM and a premade bot lane and I felt really out of place. Like, they were recording dragon times and having in-depth discussions and other MLG swag shenanigans.

Meanwhile i'm making Pony jokes, tower diving without even thinking about it and generally playing for fun. I had to ask if was supposed to be in Tryhard Mode after that game. Thankfully I was excused XD

I play other games like fighting games or FPS games online purely for fun though. I mean if I was playing exclusively to win in BlazBlue I would be fucked. Funny to see how many sore winners there are though, 'S fucking stupid.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

anyway to answer your question, they are shit at video games, and instead of changing themselves and getting good at something they instead feel like the game should be kinder to them.

I'm actually inclined to agree with you - granted, I've been playing an unusually large amount of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 lately, and that crowd's not exactly known for having a good temperament.

Over the past week or two I've been accused of wall hacking, aimbotting, and just plain "hacking" in general in about half the games I've played. I don't hack, I've never hacked, and I never will hack. The thing is, I took the time to learn the maps, adjust my playstyle to suit whatever my loadout is, and I always check corners and common camping positions. I'd rather be aggressive in flanking and ambushing the opposing team than run stupidly into their crosshairs and hope for the best.

Just last week I had one guy tell me that I was "obviously" wall hacking, and that the "kill cam doesn't lie." I saved the match into my theater, showed it to a dozen or so people, and none of them thought it looked like I was cheating in any way whatsoever. But apparently, making good use of a UAV and having a quick reaction time now counts as cheating, go figure.

honestly I find people like that to be cancerously annoying but there's nothing I can do to stop them being awful at video games so meh.

One of my real-life friends was like that in MW3. Typically went negative in games with scores along the lines of 5 or so kills and 10+ deaths. He'd frequently accuse people of hacking (which I'd watch the replays in his theater and inform him that no, they were just good players) or he'd blame whatever weapon he happened to be holding (like claiming that LMGs are universally terrible weapons, because he tried to run around with one using it like it's an SMG).

I spent a couple days teaching him good weapon choices for various situations, effective perk/gear setups for various weapons and styles of play, how to effectively use his map to judge the flow of battle, good positions to create chokepoints on various maps, etc.

He's still not an awesome player, but he's got a lot of potential to be, and he's not a sore loser anymore now that he understands why he's losing. So it is possible to save some of those players.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

It really does depend on a game. Lost match in Black Ops 2, for example, just doesn't have the same impact as lost match in Dota2. I don't usually rage if I lose, what irritates me much more is shit talking teammates. Hell, I'd prefer to lose a game to a bunch of nice guys who say "GG, really well played guys" then win a game with a team of assholes who say "GG EZ WIN NOOBS"

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

If playing for fun, I don't mind losing. Sometimes it's over a simple mistake that costs you the match or just losing to a worthy opponent. I'm actually glad to loose to a skillful player because it just forces me to rethink how I play/approach certain situations in the hopes of getting better and beating my opponent.

Simply put, do not think of every loss as a failure, but an opportunity to succeed in the future.

 

[MammothBlade]

I don't really understand why some people can't deal with losing. My friend can't stand to die in a game, or lose, or even face a challenge, because he doesn't find losing fun. Whereas winning is associated with instant gratification. Sadly this means we don't really enjoy the same kinds of games. If it's got even a hint of a learning curve or difficulty, he's out. This can be incredibly frustrating at times. Of course, this is what we call a casual mindset, perhaps.

Are you one of those people? Care to shed a little light on this?

I certainly don't enjoy losing. I can tolerate a certain amount of losing, but too much saps all the joy out of the process.

Some of it depends on the game, of course. Losing in Dwarf Fortress is sort of the point. Losing in XCOM or Mount and Blade or any other game with emergent narrative can be a treat in and of itself. Losing in a challenging strategy title, or having to repeat a difficult MMO encounter, can be bracing, so long as there isn't a ton of forced repetition. Some people are drawn to a game like Dark Souls specifically BECAUSE they enjoy the "losing".

Other games though? Ugh. Losing in a MOBA like DOTA is God's punishment for an evil world. You get stuck in a whirlpool of failure for 50 minutes while falling further and further behind.

I suppose that's right, it's how it treats losing that matters. You're right about losing being part of the fun in emergent gameplay - Crusader Kings II for instance. Though I just think some people can take losing better. And some don't even tolerate losing when losing in an amusing way is part of the game.

I'm not a masochist either. I don't think I could play a game just to keep losing without any sense of progress at all. Though that's different. If you're horribly bad at something and have little hope of improving, why bother...

Well I certainly don't like dying, but I will accept a bit of trial and error in a game to get past a particularly challenging bit.

If I hit a brick wall though that I can't get past, and I have to repeat large areas to get to the bit I can't get past, I'll just give up and never play the game again -

Force Unleashed springs to mind on this one for me. Quit that on one of the boss battles because every time I died I had to repeat a large platformy area that required fighting my way to the boss. Couldn't be bothered after the first few attempts, never played the game since.

I don't like backtracking after failed boss battles either. Since boss battles require some preparation, it's best to just have convenient save points right in front of them.

 

[Pink Gregory]

I can't enjoy myself unless I'm losing.

 

[Ishal]

I don't really understand why some people can't deal with losing. My friend can't stand to die in a game, or lose, or even face a challenge, because he doesn't find losing fun. Whereas winning is associated with instant gratification. Sadly this means we don't really enjoy the same kinds of games. If it's got even a hint of a learning curve or difficulty, he's out. This can be incredibly frustrating at times. Of course, this is what we call a casual mindset, perhaps.

Are you one of those people? Care to shed a little light on this?

Other games though? Ugh. Losing in a MOBA like DOTA is God's punishment for an evil world. You get stuck in a whirlpool of failure for 50 minutes while falling further and further behind.

50 minutes? Good lord, man. Why put yourself through that?

OT: Based on what I've seen and heard about MOBA games and the stellar community of LoL I can say I will never ever play that game. Even if it didn't have such a bad rep I still doubt I'd play it. I'm not a team player. I can't derive any fun from playing any true team sports due to not be able to stand my teammates. The tribal attitude that develops I find pretty disturbing in many situations and hazing can be pretty despicable. I much prefer competing against myself by setting the bar and then trying to surpass it. Rock Climbing, Golf, Bowling, Running, and of course.. self defense martial arts.

People have different minds and different ways of coping with things. For some people losing or competing can be as stressful as going on a roller coaster for someone who is scared of heights. Or giving a speech for someone who is super shy. Perhaps they don't want to let their teammates down and are afraid what they might think of them, or perhaps they can't handle the trash talking that comes afterward (thats a big reason I don't like sports of any kind). Ultimately it just depends.

 

[-Samurai-]

Losing is part of the game. If you aren't prepared to lose, don't play the game.

Rage quits destroy so many good online games.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I prefer playing my games on easy or normal but I'm not against a learning curve. What I can't stand are games with instant death kinda things or, like in the Master Quest, you don't have a grace period and just take constant damage. I play games offline anyway so even when I do get fed up with my game killing me all over the place (like Mace Griffin...) I can just switch it off and not worry about offending anybody.

 

[Brainwreck]

I think there's a saying about dogs and going berserk and it somehow ties into this losing business.

Oh yeah. I go berserk when I lose and... I am a dog?
Huh. Should probably reflect upon that.

Technically speaking, 'losing' is irrelevant to me. The only thing that matters is my own personal success in any given game. If we lose a LoL match and spend 50 minutes on it, but I end up with a great score, I'm content. If we steamroll the other team in 20 minutes but I didn't contribute jack, I throw a hissy fit.
Not very mature, and there isn't a whole lot I can do about it. Y'see, you can only hold the QQ back for so long, no matter who you are. For some people it is even more difficult, a constant, unending battle for avoiding getting consumed by the eldritch frenzy of their demonic heritage being an asshole to random people because they happen to be upset and must take it out on something or someone.

 

[Phlakes]

Different strokes.

No one is better or worse for liking different things. Games are about entertainment (in the general sense, Walking Dead is still entertainment even being so brutally depressing), not challenge. Challenge is just one path to entertainment. If it's not one they enjoy then that's perfectly fine.

And anyone who thinks it's not fine, or that other paths are inferior, needs a bit of perspective.