Introducing the new Doctor

[Hawki]

If you're going to be pedantic about demographics, then realistically the doctor should have been female in at least half of her incarnations, and at least one of them Asian British. Oh, but they're only casting their first female doctor now after 50 years? Guess that pedantry doesn't work to well.

Except the idea of Time Lords switching genders wasn't introduced until NuWho, so the idea of 50/50 can't be applied retroactively. I don't recall anyone clamouring for male versions of Romana, Susan, Jenny, River Song, or the Rani for instance.

Course, the genie's out of the bottle at this point, but I've never been a fan of the gender flip idea, regardless of which way the flip is going. Rest assured if Romana returned for instance as a male, I'd find it as offputting as Missy conceptually. Which sucks, because I like Missy as a character, but I've never been able to equate her as being the Master. It's quite possible for the Doctor to have other childhood friends after all.

If we go on the old argument that they hire actors on merit, that simply raises the broader problem of the lack of well known non-white actors who have been given significant acting roles in the past. To argue it is a meritocracy, you have to go with the argument that white men must have so far been inherently better actors than anyone else. Sarkeesian is absolutely right to acknowledge what we have here is just a baby step.

Except I'm not arguing that. No-one is. The ability of an actor isn't tied to race. I mean, let's look at the UK figures:

*White: 87.2%
*Black/African/Caribbean/Black British: 3%
*Indian 2.3%
*Pakistani 1.9%,
*Mixed 2%
*Other 3.7%

The statistics are iffy (go over 100% if you do the math), and they're from 2011, but under the premise that everyone within the UK has equality of opportunity, and acting ability isn't tied to ethnicity, then presumably, the number of actors within the UK should reflect this. Of course, not everyone has equality of opportunity, but even then, I'd like to think that even if you get a leg-up to the audition stage, the audition itself should be based entirely on ability, with the exception of doing casting where ethnicity is relavent (e.g. setting or character).

Shifting geography a little, in the libraries I work at, there's a lot of foreign videos/movies that show mono-ethnic casts based on their location (Vietnam, Turkey, India, China, etc.). I'm not put off by that, because a) race shouldn't matter except in special circumstances, and b) they're presumably based on the demographics of the country where they're shot at.

 

[votemarvel]

Back on topic, well this actress has the acting chops to succeed. She should get the chance to and if she makes a good Doctor, great. If not, well, regeneration time.

I thought this was supposed to be the last one. Twelve regenerations and that's it, right?

Ha.

Have you watched Dr. Who recently? They'll find a way to explain it.

My only exposure to the actual show is a series of reviews on SF Debris. Everything else I know about it is various hit-and-run references.

But yeah, it's a popular thing. I totally believe that they'll break every bit of internal consistency to keep it on the air as long as it's bringing in the cash.

The regeneration limit was an artificial one put in place by the Time Lords themselves. They believed that being immortal would drive them mad with power.

A balance was struck with the Regeneration limit. They have been shown to be able to give new cycles of regeneration however, as when they offered a new set to the Master in The Five Doctors. The Master may very well be a madman but he would know if this was not a possibility.

So the get out they used for Matt Smith regenerating to Peter Capaldi was established years ago in the series.

One thing I would like to add on the subject of the new Doctor, if it doesn't work and turns out to be a flop, a male Doctor is only a regeneration away.

 

[the December King]

If you're going to be pedantic about demographics, then realistically the doctor should have been female in at least half of her incarnations, and at least one of them Asian British. Oh, but they're only casting their first female doctor now after 50 years? Guess that pedantry doesn't work to well.

Except the idea of Time Lords switching genders wasn't introduced until NuWho, so the idea of 50/50 can't be applied retroactively. I don't recall anyone clamouring for male versions of Romana, Susan, Jenny, River Song, or the Rani for instance.

Course, the genie's out of the bottle at this point, but I've never been a fan of the gender flip idea, regardless of which way the flip is going. Rest assured if Romana returned for instance as a male, I'd find it as offputting as Missy conceptually. Which sucks, because I like Missy as a character, but I've never been able to equate her as being the Master. It's quite possible for the Doctor to have other childhood friends after all.

I'd like to rephrase my earlier feelings on the idea of the Doctor regenerating as a woman, and back Hawki's post here- I don't think I like the idea of gender flips, and though Doctor Who has a fun gimmick to explain it, I'm just not into it.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

I have no stakes in this, so imma just sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch the inevitable shit show.

I've never seen Doctor Who. I was about to watch a season on Hulu, but... I have no idea what happened, I just didn't end up watching it.

Tea, good sir? =D Shall we enjoy the show together?

 

[SoliterDan]

Does "social justice bullshit" actually translate as 'politics or social issues that I don't agree with/care about'? That's typically what it seems to mean.

Yes. Yes it does. Right now, too many shows and western forums are literally hijacked by SJW's and anti-SJW's and all I want is to be left alone, doing my thing. Maybe to you it's not that bad, but as of now, I'm literally surrounded by constant demagogues, shouting stuff that is equally correct and no matter where I go, there's always either a thread where two sides break pikes on each other (like this one) or another thing I liked to watch gets on the fem-hype train, literally saying "as a feminist and a woman and and actor" and such. There's no end to this!

That and usually, when people start to hype up the actor being X, instead of actors pedigree, it rarely means that the result will be in any way good (looking at you, Fembusters).

And, yea, that's why I rarely post here - I've spoken my opinion. Now I'm scurrying back into my hole, writing game design documents. At least orcs don't talk about their female representation all the time.

 

[rosac]

I actually liked Capaldi when the writing let him have his moments. Serious gravitas added to the role after Smith. Except the writing was 90% wank because of Clara. Fucking. Oswald.

New doctor is less important to me than new writing team, I hope they do use stuff about her sex in some of the episodes (like they do with Bill/Martha and racial tensions at times) but it doesn't become ridiculous. She is still "The Doctor" after all.

 

[McMarbles]

Even The Doctor can't save us from the Spammermen.

 

[MiskWisk]

Oh great. The infection is spreading.

 

[ArcaneGamer]

I have no stakes in this, so imma just sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch the inevitable shit show.

I've never seen Doctor Who. I was about to watch a season on Hulu, but... I have no idea what happened, I just didn't end up watching it.

Tea, good sir? =D Shall we enjoy the show together?

(Notices a chair fly past our heads) Sometimes it's the little things that mean the most...=)

 

[Parasondox]

Did a bot try to enter my thread?!?!?

NO SYNTHS ALLOWED!!!

 

[RobertEHouse]

Serious question to any old-Who buffs. Is this whole 'timelords can regenerate as either gender, regardless of previous incarnation' something with an established canon pedigree, or something that has arisen purely in the tragically awful Moffat era (because I don't seem to recall it ever appearing in the RTD era)?

No in 1960's during i believe the second time lord, it was explained that female and male timelords exist but they cannot regenerated into different genders. When years later they did the relaunch of Dr. Who they followed much of the cannon they had. It only started to fall off the rails later on, as it seemed BBC wanted more of a fan base. *enter David Tennant as the 10th doctor who brought in a younger audience.

In truth the gender change was going to happen because the head of BBC at the time after Matt Smith (11th doctor) stated publicly she wanted to have a female doctor. A fact which Moffat actually challenged against during his time on the show as it turned out. It was covered by a BBC article that was publish when Peter Capaldi was picked as the (12th Doctor).

During the 11th doctor's near end run, The master made appearance as a female timelord. She then kept insisting that the doctor and they had been a couple. Sadly, this goes against cannon of the history of the show and derails the fact that they were childhood friends at one point. That they both were at one point married to someone different and assumed each had a child of some sort years later. But all of this was a compromise of sorts for Moffat to the studio in placating them for a extension of his contract because he was not sure he wanted to leave.

So in truth it was Moffat that caused this ,but not in the way you would think. Besides his faults he wanted to keep parts of the cannon true, although he did seem to take liberties at time with the doctor any way. Most fans are sure divided on his actions including me on how the show developed. When he finally decided to leave Dr. Who Moffat started to hand the rains over to other directors which allowed more influence by the studio heads. Since the head of BBC head had long publicly mentioned she wanted to have a female doctor.Even before Capaldi had even started shooting the first episode. We now have a female doctor after Moffat had long left and the studio has complete creative input.

I wish it all had ended a different but Sadly, this is the dirty world of entertainment it seems. The cannon is starting to get lost, and the doctors although great actors are seemed more aiming for really young audiences.Each one is getting younger and younger until Capaldi that they are around the same age as their companions.

Although i have ejections to actress they picked it is not for her sex, but for the fact that the studio did not seal up the cracks in the story they blew up to get her. Although she could end up being a good fit, its hard to say. A lot of things are going to have to be explained and actually her performance is going to have to outstanding. To bring in people that are skeptical of a female doctor who actually kept this show alive.

Favorite Dr.Who's.

William Hartnell
Jon Pertwee
Tom Baker
Collin Baker
David Tennant
Peter Capaldi

 

[Trunkage]

I actually liked Capaldi when the writing let him have his moments. Serious gravitas added to the role after Smith. Except the writing was 90% wank because of Clara. Fucking. Oswald.

New doctor is less important to me than new writing team, I hope they do use stuff about her sex in some of the episodes (like they do with Bill/Martha and racial tensions at times) but it doesn't become ridiculous. She is still "The Doctor" after all.

Sometimes I think people forgot that Rose existed. All Doctor-Human romances suck. I can understand not liking Clara, but Rose was worse. (I actually think Amy was pretty bad too... Screw it. Donna was the only good one.)

EDIT to make sense

 

[Thaluikhain]

No in 1960's during i believe the second time lord, it was explained that female and male timelords exist but they cannot regenerated into different genders.

Er...not in the show they didn't. Maybe in a spin off book or comic.

Sadly, this goes against cannon of the history of the show and derails the fact that they were childhood friends at one point.

The relationship between the two was never established, at least not in Old Who. Originally they were going to have the Master as the evil version of the Doctor, but Delgado died before that was fleshed out and they re-used the idea with the Valeyard.

Though, Dr Who canon has always been a bit loose. When were the UNIT stories set, for example?

 

[helwyr]

Donna was the only good one

Martha was good too!

Otherwise yeah, Donna was the best companion.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Yes. Yes it does. Right now, too many shows and western forums are literally hijacked by SJW's and anti-SJW's and all I want is to be left alone, doing my thing. Maybe to you it's not that bad, but as of now, I'm literally surrounded by constant demagogues, shouting stuff that is equally correct and no matter where I go, there's always either a thread where two sides break pikes on each other (like this one) or another thing I liked to watch gets on the fem-hype train, literally saying "as a feminist and a woman and and actor" and such. There's no end to this!

That and usually, when people start to hype up the actor being X, instead of actors pedigree, it rarely means that the result will be in any way good (looking at you, Fembusters).

Firstly...


Aside from that: TV's art, right? It reflects our society, current social mores, etc? Should politics be left out of what we create? If not, then I suppose 'deal with it' would be glib advice. If some people think it's great to have a female Doctor - or a Bond, or a decent superhero film, etc - then so what?

As for being "left alone": I've no idea of your own politics but that's largely been the rallying cry of the anti's over the past few years, which translates to 'I don't want things to change and I don't want to have to think about the culture I'm consuming/perpetuating'.

Now I'm scurrying back into my hole, writing game design documents. At least orcs don't talk about their female representation all the time.

True. The creation will simply reflect its creator - very often in ways they can't perceive.

 

[09philj]

I actually liked Capaldi when the writing let him have his moments. Serious gravitas added to the role after Smith. Except the writing was 90% wank because of Clara. Fucking. Oswald.

New doctor is less important to me than new writing team, I hope they do use stuff about her sex in some of the episodes (like they do with Bill/Martha and racial tensions at times) but it doesn't become ridiculous. She is still "The Doctor" after all.

Sometimes I think people forgot that Rose existed. All Doctor-Human romances suck. I can understand not liking Clara, but Rose was worse. (I actually think Amy was pretty bad too... Screw it. Donna was the only good one.)

EDIT to make sense

At least Rose had a character. It was a character that deserved to be pushed out of the TARDIS into a black hole, but it was a character. Clara was just sort of there.

 

[gigastar]

Have a meme.

 

[Parasondox]

Does "social justice bullshit" actually translate as 'politics or social issues that I don't agree with/care about'? That's typically what it seems to mean.

Yes. Yes it does. Right now, too many shows and western forums are literally hijacked by SJW's and anti-SJW's and all I want is to be left alone, doing my thing. Maybe to you it's not that bad, but as of now, I'm literally surrounded by constant demagogues, shouting stuff that is equally correct and no matter where I go, there's always either a thread where two sides break pikes on each other (like this one) or another thing I liked to watch gets on the fem-hype train, literally saying "as a feminist and a woman and and actor" and such. There's no end to this!

That and usually, when people start to hype up the actor being X, instead of actors pedigree, it rarely means that the result will be in any way good (looking at you, Fembusters).

And, yea, that's why I rarely post here - I've spoken my opinion. Now I'm scurrying back into my hole, writing game design documents. At least orcs don't talk about their female representation all the time.

Maybe you need to get away from the internet for a few days. Or just threads and forums for a few days. I get it. Both sides can be arseholes and are just looking for some sort of win. A cheap one to rub in the faces of the enemy. Petty, I know.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Even The Doctor can't save us from the Spammermen.

Yeah, that's a Torchwood episode.

God help us all.

 

[09philj]

Even The Doctor can't save us from the Spammermen.

Yeah, that's a Torchwood episode.

God help us all.

I believe McMarbles was referring to the Seventh Doctor serial Delta and the Bannermen, a story that showed you just what it would be like to witness a Nazi invasion of southern Wales while on acid.