I'm already as good at the game as I can get though, piss poor. My only reason to play is for laughs and Loot boxes.BytByte said:
Investigating Overwatch's Stingy Loot System
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
OoT: Different people likes different things from the same games. This isn't my opinion, it has been researched for decades: what do players want from a game? One of the conclusions (the Bartle taxonomy) groups players in 4 very different categories. Games are complex works, but the player base in each one is complex too.FillerDmon said:
Well, if a secondary and optional challenge to a game is going to get someone in this much of a bind, and if Blizzard worries about its rep with every single person (and since they pulled a slightly suggestive shot of a character's ass because one single person complained, they just might) I think I can solve this problem with two words: Collectibles Trading. Let players exchange duplicates as an alternative to cashing them in for in-game currency.
Okay, but what person in their right mind would feel the need to 100% Overwatch's loot? I mean you're gonna want one skin for each character (maybe two if you like a couple), the highlight intros and the sprays you like. I can't imagine a vast majority of players won't have everything they want by level 150, level 200 at most.
One-fifth the value for duplicates? Ouch. It's hard not to read that as exploiting a problem that you, yourself caused. It's perfectly possible to create a system that never draws duplicates, or gives the full "market" value of the duplicate (or even half the value), or simply allows a straight trade for something else in its class, or trade between players. Combined with the unattractive nature of some of the drops (I've heard more than one reviewer complain about getting a box of spray patterns), it begins to sound like the game is trying to engender a compulsion to "earn" (or buy) more pulls at a slot machine.
Now, of course, as long as the game remains fun, whatever. But there's a nasty loop that occurs in a lot of minds where instead of "I spend so much time playing this game because it's fun" the interpretation becomes "I must be having fun- after all, look at how much time I spend playing this game". I have to raise an eyebrow at games that seem to be trying to exploit that kind of loop.
Now, of course, as long as the game remains fun, whatever. But there's a nasty loop that occurs in a lot of minds where instead of "I spend so much time playing this game because it's fun" the interpretation becomes "I must be having fun- after all, look at how much time I spend playing this game". I have to raise an eyebrow at games that seem to be trying to exploit that kind of loop.
That is demonstrably untrue. If it was, competitive mode would've been a launch feature and not something that's being added later, and non-competitive features like quick play and brawls wouldn't exist. Furthermore, the level up system has less of a correlation to how good you are than it does how long/much you've played. You could be the worst player in the world and still be the highest level just by grinding it hard enough. And match making may adjust to your skill level, but since match making is invisible there's no sense of progress and indeed it's pretty much impossible to tell how high up or down you actually are. All these things emphasize that the game is much more heavily casual focused than it is hardcore, which means competitive play is absolutely not the main goal.FillerDmon said:
Except that by your own admission, those cosmetics are actually required for one of the achievements. Furthermore, what do the achievements reward you with? More cosmetics! Which means the cosmetics are clearly intended to be an objective to be acquired, both to complete achievements but also as a reason TO complete achievements, further emphasizing why the default method of obtaining them is stupid.
You argue that they're meaningless, but just the fact that they're there at all means that clearly somebody wanted them. The same is true for Overwatch, except the difference is that the progression ISN'T there (or what is there is mindbogglingly stupid) and people are asking for it.
You know... as much as I would love a new Time Splitters game, I am kinda glad that the series seems dead and buried. At least it went out with dignity and didn't get slogged down by nonsensical and shady micro-transactions with its insane roster of crazy characters like Overwatch did.
And lets all remember all the holiday themed items that'll be coming. If you think Blizzard is above charging for Halloween costumes or Xmas snowballs, then you've never played a single Blizzard game.
I agree with this. It occurred to me while reading that it would be better to do it like this to assure less credits spent to be duplicated later. It's not dissimilar to an Offset Mortgage, where the positive capital acts against the amount owed, and when the two meet can cancel out. It means a lot more empties will be filled with random drops, saving credits and makes the most efficient use of credits earned from duplicates.
I just wish the game didn't seem so vindictive about the drops it gives. I swear it must weigh how many drops you get towards the characters you play the least. Of all the drops I've had up to now, only 2 skins have been for characters I use regularly.
Uh, guys, I think the whole sense of progression with the "Getting good at the game" argument as far as multiplayer games are concerned is thrown out the window when a 17 year old can disband an entire "professional" esports team.
Have to really disagree with Yahtzee on this one. The "Loot system" of Overwatch was an afterthought - a fun little way to get some random goodies here and there. None of the items have any effect on gameplay. His complaints are petty and make it seem like Blizzard is "holding stuff hostage" from us.
What happened to the old days when people were able to enjoy video games without having to be pat on the back every X hours, given a random goodie, and told "well done! You have progressed!"
What happened to the old days when people were able to enjoy video games without having to be pat on the back every X hours, given a random goodie, and told "well done! You have progressed!"
You seem to be mistaken, because in the old days, people WERE given random goodies. If something was in the game, there was a realistic expectation that you would be able to obtain it, whereas nowadays the expectation is that you'll have to pay for it, and possibly pay quite a lot as well.Steven Bogos said:
The argument that because it doesn't have any effect on gameplay then it shouldn't matter is fallacious. If it really didn't matter then why bother to include it in the game at all? Earning things, customizing your appearance and character, these things matter to people. Their very presence in the game is itself an indicator that people find them important, and just because you personally don't care doesn't mean that you should be dismissing the concerns of people who do, because this thing is clearly aimed at them and not you and they care and they think it's shit.
I don't think Blizzard really wants players to 100% the loot system. What's the fun in getting a legendary skin out of a box if everyone has them?
Interesting numbers. For me though, the notion of progress annoys me to no end.
Was there progress in HL2 DM? Was there progress in Warcraft 2 vs? Was there progress in Doom (the original) deathmatches? In Counter Strike? No. It was just games. For the fun of it. If you returned to a game it was for ONE reason, and one alone...you wanted to.
When I play Overwatch, its because of that. I realize there are some disturbed souls out there that cant put something down untill they have "completed" it whatever that means....but for the vast majority of people, the cosmetics and other BS should be just some extra spice for when you've played some games.
Fuck progression, its not an MMO. You're not building a character. Its just for fun. Isnt that enough?
Was there progress in HL2 DM? Was there progress in Warcraft 2 vs? Was there progress in Doom (the original) deathmatches? In Counter Strike? No. It was just games. For the fun of it. If you returned to a game it was for ONE reason, and one alone...you wanted to.
When I play Overwatch, its because of that. I realize there are some disturbed souls out there that cant put something down untill they have "completed" it whatever that means....but for the vast majority of people, the cosmetics and other BS should be just some extra spice for when you've played some games.
Fuck progression, its not an MMO. You're not building a character. Its just for fun. Isnt that enough?
One thing your simulation didn't take into account was how long it takes you to earn those boxes, by the time you've eared enough boxes to get everything there will be more stuff brought out that you will need to earn. I honestly can't imagine anyone getting 100% and I'm ok with that, all I care about is do I have a cool skin for the characters I play the most? Yes, fine then.