Is 3rd Person supposed to be immersive?
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It's supposed to avert AFGNCAAP (tvtropes be your friend). Not always working, though. And it certainly doesn't fit with "horror" games (am looking at you, Dead fucking Spaces), those need an FPS perspective for maximum scary. But it is perfect for games like PoP or AssCreed, or GTA, or most RPGs (and this makes the Elder Scrolls series a bit unique - they do have 3rdPS from morrowind upwards, but it is pretty much only useful to see what your character looks like, because you can't aim for shit that way), and blah blah blah boobies blah blah blah ass blah blah blah machismo blah blah blah cool clothes.
I have no idea why I would care about a nameless, faceless protagonist. That is, a non-character. It's still someone else's story, all this is doing is removing desperately needed characterization.
I usually prefer third person, because I often find immersion broken in 1st person games due to the small things that aren't right. I hate not being able to see legs when I look down in an FPS, (Portal 2 provided a huge example of this with its small elevators, so when you look down it looks like you're hovering above the ground), or times where "Press X to open door/push button" still just shows a door open itself instead of showing you actually do it.
I do tend to prefer games about characters, instead of you as the character games though. I'm more about connecting with protagonists rather than placing my own thoughts into them. So for me, the little touches like Drake's facial expressions changing when under fire to show fear in Uncharted make me more involved than a 1st person experience.
I do tend to prefer games about characters, instead of you as the character games though. I'm more about connecting with protagonists rather than placing my own thoughts into them. So for me, the little touches like Drake's facial expressions changing when under fire to show fear in Uncharted make me more involved than a 1st person experience.
All games are about immersion, 3rd person is no exception. The difference with 1st person is that in that case you're meant to be imprinting yourself into the world (usually, at least), while in 3rd person you're meant to assume the role of someone else.
It depends how your mind works, some people can't immerse themselves from a third person perspectives, others can. I'd guess if you dream in first person, playing a game in third person is just too jarring, while vice-versa makes it easy.
It depends how your mind works, some people can't immerse themselves from a third person perspectives, others can. I'd guess if you dream in first person, playing a game in third person is just too jarring, while vice-versa makes it easy.
I'm fine with both. Y'know, so long as it's implemented well.
The only difference is that in third-person games I don't pay as much attention to the environments, especially the small details. No idea why. Maybe it's just because the camera is further away.
But apart from that, I am perspective neutral. Bi-perspectival if you will.
The only difference is that in third-person games I don't pay as much attention to the environments, especially the small details. No idea why. Maybe it's just because the camera is further away.
But apart from that, I am perspective neutral. Bi-perspectival if you will.
Gears of War not immersive at all for me. Mass Effect 2 was so i guess it depends on how well it's done.
First person is too much "uncanny valley" for me, third person does the trick however.
Also, first person games provide you with too little information which creates an odd feeling, you have a narrow field of vision and hardly any sound assistance, all the other senses aren't utilized which creates a lack of information for the brain, Third person games circumvent this problem by simply offering more visual information which works.
PS: Are Bethesda games supposed to be immersive? Because I quite playing all of them about two hours because they lacked any immersion whatsoever, this might be due to my general hate of the first person perspective.
Also, first person games provide you with too little information which creates an odd feeling, you have a narrow field of vision and hardly any sound assistance, all the other senses aren't utilized which creates a lack of information for the brain, Third person games circumvent this problem by simply offering more visual information which works.
PS: Are Bethesda games supposed to be immersive? Because I quite playing all of them about two hours because they lacked any immersion whatsoever, this might be due to my general hate of the first person perspective.
I'm not totally sold on either. In some games where speed and reaction time are vital such as multiplayer shooters I would never want to play as 3rd person, I'm not sure if others agree but I found Alien Swarm to be a great example of why shooters should not have a 3rd person aspect. However in other games that are a bit slower paced such as Morrowind where you could switch seemlessly between the two options I found myself playing both. Although I probably used first person more I didn't necessarly like it more I was just more used to it from other games.
Okey dokey...
1st person probably is more immersive, but if I had to play Ninja Gaiden in the 1st person...I'd probably throw up after being spun around a few times.
3rd person has it's advantages.
1st person probably is more immersive, but if I had to play Ninja Gaiden in the 1st person...I'd probably throw up after being spun around a few times.
3rd person has it's advantages.
I usually prefer 3rd person. 1st person can increase immersion but using the viewpoint doesn't automatically do that by itself. I think it depends how the controls of the game work and how the character you play is supposed to move. First person works well when how the person looks isn't that important. it is best used when you need precision from the player. This is why Oblivion and Fallout work so much better in 1st than 3rd. They were designed as 1st person games and require you to be able to be quite delicate with your control. If you put the game in 3rd person you are pulled away from what you should be able to see, and then a head is put right in front of your view.
Combat can work okay in Oblivion in 3rd person since the target you need to aim at is large, but when you need to pick things up it doesn't work. Also in both those games the way the character moves is odd in 3rd person because the movement is designed to work in 1st, not 3rd. Hopefully Bethesda aren't lying when they say 3rd person is actually useable in Skyrim. The character animations look much better but the precision is still an issue. It doesn't seem they have done anything to change the control scheme to fix that from what I've seen.
But as an immersive tool 1st person can be useful because it makes the player feel like what is happening to the character is actually happening to them. But sometimes it can just feel like you are a floating pair of arms. It needs to be handled correctly.
But 3rd person can also be used to aid immersion in a different way. When the movement and look of the player character are important it is much better to use 3rd person. The way the character moves and acts, and how he looks can add to the feeling of an immersive world. It helps to give the player an idea of what the characters is like and how they feel about the world around them. I usually prefer 3rd person though just because I like to see my character and see them do some cool moves. I always find that characters in 1st person games often feel cumbersome compared to 3rd person characters. Like if you compare any character from an FPS to one from an action or adventure game, like DMC or Zelda, the 3rd person characters are always much more acrobatic and exciting I find.
Combat can work okay in Oblivion in 3rd person since the target you need to aim at is large, but when you need to pick things up it doesn't work. Also in both those games the way the character moves is odd in 3rd person because the movement is designed to work in 1st, not 3rd. Hopefully Bethesda aren't lying when they say 3rd person is actually useable in Skyrim. The character animations look much better but the precision is still an issue. It doesn't seem they have done anything to change the control scheme to fix that from what I've seen.
But as an immersive tool 1st person can be useful because it makes the player feel like what is happening to the character is actually happening to them. But sometimes it can just feel like you are a floating pair of arms. It needs to be handled correctly.
But 3rd person can also be used to aid immersion in a different way. When the movement and look of the player character are important it is much better to use 3rd person. The way the character moves and acts, and how he looks can add to the feeling of an immersive world. It helps to give the player an idea of what the characters is like and how they feel about the world around them. I usually prefer 3rd person though just because I like to see my character and see them do some cool moves. I always find that characters in 1st person games often feel cumbersome compared to 3rd person characters. Like if you compare any character from an FPS to one from an action or adventure game, like DMC or Zelda, the 3rd person characters are always much more acrobatic and exciting I find.
Third person and first person are tradeoffs in my opinion.
You may think that first person is the paragon of getting the whole "experience", and, quite frankly, I'm not convinced. You ever see first person sword fighting? Shit's boring. That's why they usually do that in third person, so we can see the characters executing moves gracefully like a boss.
Being fascinated by the skill and finesse of the character is, in my opinion, much more immersive than just having a camera for a head. Ezio's more of a character than anyone from Call of Duty could ever be, and they're both wildly different experiences.
As a sidenote, "immersion" (getting really tired of that word nowadays) isn't always just being the main character. It's being captivated by the visuals and the gameplay to such an extent that you lose track of everything else around you.
You may think that first person is the paragon of getting the whole "experience", and, quite frankly, I'm not convinced. You ever see first person sword fighting? Shit's boring. That's why they usually do that in third person, so we can see the characters executing moves gracefully like a boss.
Being fascinated by the skill and finesse of the character is, in my opinion, much more immersive than just having a camera for a head. Ezio's more of a character than anyone from Call of Duty could ever be, and they're both wildly different experiences.
As a sidenote, "immersion" (getting really tired of that word nowadays) isn't always just being the main character. It's being captivated by the visuals and the gameplay to such an extent that you lose track of everything else around you.
Pretty much this. First person doesn't actually feel like first person to me because it doesn't look real. Especially in games that use medieval weaponry like Oblivion, where you're holding your weapons straight out in front of your face at an unnatural angle (and to make matters worse if you switch to third person you're holding your weapons differently).Truly-A-Lie said:
I actually find that there are many more games that I have been immersed in which are 3rd person.
The only game which I can recall at the moment being immersed in that was 1st person is Half Life 2 and I definitely wouldn't call it the most immersive game I've played. And the time I was immersed in Half Life 2 was only brief moments.
There was also Call of Duty 4 as well but, again, I wasn't 'immersed' into it any more than a few moments.
Unlike many 3rd person games, I have found Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, Persona 3, Kingdom Hearts, Monkey Island series, Shadow Hearts etc which for the most part were much more immersive than any 1st person games I have played.
All personal opinion and experience of course.
The only game which I can recall at the moment being immersed in that was 1st person is Half Life 2 and I definitely wouldn't call it the most immersive game I've played. And the time I was immersed in Half Life 2 was only brief moments.
There was also Call of Duty 4 as well but, again, I wasn't 'immersed' into it any more than a few moments.
Unlike many 3rd person games, I have found Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, Persona 3, Kingdom Hearts, Monkey Island series, Shadow Hearts etc which for the most part were much more immersive than any 1st person games I have played.
All personal opinion and experience of course.
As far as immersion goes, I always found third person way more immersive (which according to my spell checker isn't a word :-/).
With first person there's always a feeling that something isn't right, you move forward but you can rarely feel your own footsteps, the gun is always held up visible in front of your eyes, your don't get a sense that your character's body is alive, sometimes it's not even there. Just small things like that, it makes third person feel much more like you're there.
With first person there's always a feeling that something isn't right, you move forward but you can rarely feel your own footsteps, the gun is always held up visible in front of your eyes, your don't get a sense that your character's body is alive, sometimes it's not even there. Just small things like that, it makes third person feel much more like you're there.
Well, Ill be a ***** and say that caring for Characters you see might be hard if you not are open to care about people. Take Ratchet and Clank 1 because i recently played that.
When you get a decent part into the Game when Quark betrays your trust we see Ratchet and Clank go through Character Development, Ratchet seems non caring about the fate of the Universe vs his revenge against Quark. Clank being naive and still seeking to bring peace to the Galaxy .
Now if you subscribe to Liberalistic Philosophies you might not have strong will toward caring too much about the state of other people, as is core of those Philosophies.
Each man for himself! You might not be able to feel immersed by other people, when your brain can by use of these philosophies shut off your emotional sides. (I am talking core principles and not about todays current Liberal people, dont hate! )
This call to care about Characters can be hard to make in 3rd person games and in movies, but its easy in 1st person games, as all the elements in the game speak to you and you alone.
What you must do as a player is at some point think as if you were Ratchet or Clank, that will allow you to at least entertain the idea of their personalities.
Game Designers assume us to be Human and not non caring individuals, All games has immersion, but Quality can be debated.
Yeah, I think that pretty much sums up my comment, I am not saying you dont care about Ratchet tho
Just saying Gaming might require you to immerse yourself at some point, Gaming might not all be about receiving it all, You should work for the immersion sometimes.
When you get a decent part into the Game when Quark betrays your trust we see Ratchet and Clank go through Character Development, Ratchet seems non caring about the fate of the Universe vs his revenge against Quark. Clank being naive and still seeking to bring peace to the Galaxy .
Now if you subscribe to Liberalistic Philosophies you might not have strong will toward caring too much about the state of other people, as is core of those Philosophies.
Each man for himself! You might not be able to feel immersed by other people, when your brain can by use of these philosophies shut off your emotional sides. (I am talking core principles and not about todays current Liberal people, dont hate! )
This call to care about Characters can be hard to make in 3rd person games and in movies, but its easy in 1st person games, as all the elements in the game speak to you and you alone.
What you must do as a player is at some point think as if you were Ratchet or Clank, that will allow you to at least entertain the idea of their personalities.
Game Designers assume us to be Human and not non caring individuals, All games has immersion, but Quality can be debated.
Yeah, I think that pretty much sums up my comment, I am not saying you dont care about Ratchet tho
Just saying Gaming might require you to immerse yourself at some point, Gaming might not all be about receiving it all, You should work for the immersion sometimes.
Third or fist person... none of them decides the immersion for me, atmosphere does, I find Uncharted more immersive than CoD, and Fallout 3 more immersive than Mafia 2.
I like both types of games, but if I were to examine my gaming habits statistically, I'd likely come out on the 3rd-person side.
The thing is, in my opinion a game can be incredibly immersive without taking place from the main character's perspective. For me, it's not really a matter of imagining myself as the guy with the gun, and in truth, many 1st-person perspective games have main characters who are characterized very little or not at all; instead, what I look for in games is an entertaining story with fully fleshed-out characters, and the better the story is told and the better the acting figures are characterized, the more immersive the experience becomes for me. Look at titles like the Sands of Time trilogy, or Silent Hill 2 - are you honestly telling me you don't get sucked into the experience when you sit down to play these games?
Personally, I'll take a Marcus Fenix, an Optimus Prime or a Spider-Man over a blank slate like Gordon Freeman any day.
The thing is, in my opinion a game can be incredibly immersive without taking place from the main character's perspective. For me, it's not really a matter of imagining myself as the guy with the gun, and in truth, many 1st-person perspective games have main characters who are characterized very little or not at all; instead, what I look for in games is an entertaining story with fully fleshed-out characters, and the better the story is told and the better the acting figures are characterized, the more immersive the experience becomes for me. Look at titles like the Sands of Time trilogy, or Silent Hill 2 - are you honestly telling me you don't get sucked into the experience when you sit down to play these games?
Personally, I'll take a Marcus Fenix, an Optimus Prime or a Spider-Man over a blank slate like Gordon Freeman any day.
I think first person is more immersive, but you can create a better storyline with third person as there is a set character (usually) making set decisions.
Exactly this for me. It's not about immersion, its about seeing more and being more aware of things.SteewpidZombie said: