Is "dropping the n-bomb" racist?
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Words are not just words.RedDeadFred said:
They are blueprints. They are ideas. They are the very thing that creates meaning in our minds. In the grand scheme of existence, words are just a concept. In society, it's the very foundation of how we interact.
The N-word is used to show respect. Some people just don't want to hear it. And it's not like people are going "Yo, That's my N-word right there!" or "Fuck that N-word!". It's the same as F-bomb. Mixed company. You don't want to offend, but the situation calls that you have to refer to it.
Let's put it this way.
There's a difference between (*sighs*) Rappers using the N-word and Cops. A lot of people want to point to Rap music and say "see, they are making it ok. There's no weight to the word any more" Rappers are not calling for everyone to consider blacks to be lesser. The bottom line is this.
Would you like to see the graphic truth?
The Fort Lauderdale Police Department has fired three officers and another has resigned after an internal investigation found that they had exchanged multiple racist text messages and shared a racist video trailer parodying President Obama. The investigation began after one of the officer's fiancées tipped off his superiors that "her would-be husband constantly expressed his racist views toward black people." [http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/03/fort-lauderdale-cops-fired-for-racist-messages.html]
What is striking this about this case is that one of the officers said that he only did it to 'fit in with the other officers'. And that he had a black best friend since the third grade. Whether the black best friend is true or not, imagine having to feign racism to fit in with your co-workers. What does that say about the place where you work? And more over, these people work by 'protecting' the group they hate
What is striking this about this case is that one of the officers said that he only did it to 'fit in with the other officers'. And that he had a black best friend since the third grade. Whether the black best friend is true or not, imagine having to feign racism to fit in with your co-workers. What does that say about the place where you work? And more over, these people work by 'protecting' the group they hate
Michael Dargjati, 33, an eight-year NYPD veteran assigned to Staten Island, was arrested and stripped of his badge last October after federal agents caught him on a wiretap plotting an extortion scheme involving an off-duty snowplow business. He can also be heard using racist language to boast about setting up innocent black men for arrest. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/22/racist-nypd-cop-michael-daragjati-sentenced-false-arrest-extortion-stop-and-frisk_n_1619812.html]
I mean, we can obviously sit here and point to the black community and say what they are doing and the like. And yes, they are using the word. But not most of them are being racist to themselves.
The word is racist because it's the go-to for racists. That's it. It is literally still used today to say "That is not a human, that's a subhuman creature that has no barring in my mind". That's why it has power. It is as powerful as any flag, any uniform, any tattoo or whatever. Even more so. Because you can hold it to your chest and fly it out when you feel 'safe'.
You can go about your day unassailed, and then when you feel like you want to share in the power of it, you can tweet it or get together with your friends and dream about blasting away all the N-words.
It's not just a word then. It becomes a manifesto.
This thread makes me remember Louis C.K when he said that white people saying "the N word" on tv an such is only the way of saying it without saying it out loud but that it places that word inside your head.
I agree with Bebop, censoring words is a very American thing to do. Also, I don't understand why black people using that word is empowering since it really doesn't happen with other groups (and their respective derogatory terms) that are being discriminated against.
I guess since I'm not American I wouldn't understand anyway, but it does baffle me.
I agree with Bebop, censoring words is a very American thing to do. Also, I don't understand why black people using that word is empowering since it really doesn't happen with other groups (and their respective derogatory terms) that are being discriminated against.
I guess since I'm not American I wouldn't understand anyway, but it does baffle me.
Think of it the same as women using the word " slut walk" to make a point. This isn't just a thing done in the US..viscomica said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-13739876
It does happen with other groups.
Can (hopefully) grown up adults stop using "N-Word" and "F-Bomb"? I can't take anyone serious who talks like kindergardners while discussing actualy issues.
It is in America, absolutely. You have to remember that it's a term tied to institutionalize slavery. After slavery ended it became a racial slur that was used to insult African Americans throughout the nation (despite popular belief, it wasn't just contained in the south). People were beaten, lynched, and raped. People were abused by the KKK. People were abused by the police. People were abused by companies and store owners. And, all the time, those authority figures were calling you a dirty n*****. It was a racial slur that implied you were less of a human being. Obviously I don't expect non-Americans to know about American history, but you can probably see why this term and subject is still extremely sensitive. Many of the members of the civil rights movement are still alive. People who were beaten, and experiances racism first hand. Their children and grand children are still connected to these events. People remember.
It is true that the term has lost some of its potency, but it's still one of the most offensive terms you could use in America. The term is widely used by African Americans, and I know a lot of black people who are fine with a close white friend using it as slang, but if you go to America then I would reccomend you never use it. In fact, I would say to not use it at all, no matter where you are.
It is true that the term has lost some of its potency, but it's still one of the most offensive terms you could use in America. The term is widely used by African Americans, and I know a lot of black people who are fine with a close white friend using it as slang, but if you go to America then I would reccomend you never use it. In fact, I would say to not use it at all, no matter where you are.
Nope.
As with any word it depends on the context and meaning of the word use. I don't see why any word should be considered socially 'off limits' just because of your gender/race/etc.
For example...I grew up using terms like eskimo, oriental and gay without ever applying any intentional negative or offensive context to them. To be perfectly honest, I only just learned that oriental is apparently a bad word this year. Go figure.
Can't say I've ever noticeably offended anyone in real life with the above word use either. I wouldn't consider myself to be a racist person but I suppose others may think differently.
As with any word it depends on the context and meaning of the word use. I don't see why any word should be considered socially 'off limits' just because of your gender/race/etc.
For example...I grew up using terms like eskimo, oriental and gay without ever applying any intentional negative or offensive context to them. To be perfectly honest, I only just learned that oriental is apparently a bad word this year. Go figure.
Can't say I've ever noticeably offended anyone in real life with the above word use either. I wouldn't consider myself to be a racist person but I suppose others may think differently.
That's weird, I live in America and the terms always been used as a politically correct term. Like how African American would be seen as more politically correct then "black," or homosexual is seen as more polite then simply saying "gay." That may vary between region, though.inu-kun said:
If you are in "America" it has not been politically correct since the Vietnam war. Now being in America and not being aware it is recognized as being offensive that is a completely different matter. HAHAFox12 said:
As with any use of language, the word '******' being offensive depends on context. I don't think there's really any argument that can say it cannot cause offence since it absolutely can and most certainly will, there is no question there. The main issue with '******' in particular over many other words that are *clearly* offensive (ie. they do not have a usage that is not explicitly offensive) is that it has evolved in recent years/decade(s) to have two meanings and instead of falling out of the vernacular, it has stayed on and possibly even become popularised.
Like with other contranyms (such as 'left', 'rent' or 'screen') '******' has two opposite meanings. The first is the offensive one that is a racial slur. It is derogatory to black people and is loaded with connotations of historical mistreatment in America during slavery and pre-civil rights movement. The other meaning is a good, inoffensive one that equates roughly to bro, friend, mate, buddy, pal, homie, homeboy, main man, etc. In writing, the latter could be written as 'nigga' but in reality it is a different word that happens to have the same spelling and pronunciation.
So with one word that has two meanings, one of which is a racial slur and the other of which is a genial term for a friend (both usually used with a black person) it's a very difficult word to use. If intending to cause offense, then use it freely. Everyone will consider the speaker a racist and that's that, quite uncomplicated. If intending to use the second meaning, personally I can't see it ever working with a black person that isn't considered a close, personal friend. Calling a stranger '******' is almost certain to come across as the offensive meaning whether it's intended or not, whereas a friend will know it's meant genially.
As for another poster's question about the word "oriental", that's not offensive where I'm from (UK). I can't imagine why it would be. It's an adjective that means "of the orient" and can be ascribed to things as well as people (oriental food, clothing, rug, tapestry, spices, etc). It's no different than "European" or "British" in a sense, although the Orient isn't a strict, geographic place. Instead it encompasses the near-east, middle-east and far-east (pretty much most of Asia, minus the Indian subcontinent).
Like with other contranyms (such as 'left', 'rent' or 'screen') '******' has two opposite meanings. The first is the offensive one that is a racial slur. It is derogatory to black people and is loaded with connotations of historical mistreatment in America during slavery and pre-civil rights movement. The other meaning is a good, inoffensive one that equates roughly to bro, friend, mate, buddy, pal, homie, homeboy, main man, etc. In writing, the latter could be written as 'nigga' but in reality it is a different word that happens to have the same spelling and pronunciation.
So with one word that has two meanings, one of which is a racial slur and the other of which is a genial term for a friend (both usually used with a black person) it's a very difficult word to use. If intending to cause offense, then use it freely. Everyone will consider the speaker a racist and that's that, quite uncomplicated. If intending to use the second meaning, personally I can't see it ever working with a black person that isn't considered a close, personal friend. Calling a stranger '******' is almost certain to come across as the offensive meaning whether it's intended or not, whereas a friend will know it's meant genially.
As for another poster's question about the word "oriental", that's not offensive where I'm from (UK). I can't imagine why it would be. It's an adjective that means "of the orient" and can be ascribed to things as well as people (oriental food, clothing, rug, tapestry, spices, etc). It's no different than "European" or "British" in a sense, although the Orient isn't a strict, geographic place. Instead it encompasses the near-east, middle-east and far-east (pretty much most of Asia, minus the Indian subcontinent).
I don't think you're wrong, but what you're saying supports more that the context of a word's use is racist, not the word itself. The word ****** just happens to have a lot more contexts in which its use is racist.ObsidianJones said:
Also, I understand why people say things like "F-word" instead of simply saying the word, but that doesn't mean it actually makes sense. When someone says "F that" to me, I know exactly what they mean. There's really no need to hide behind the first letter IMO. Having said that, I still do it simply because it's a societal norm and I do not wish to offend people. Even if them taking offense doesn't make sense.
Hmm, strange. I've never used the term myself, mostly because I find it innacurate. After all, the orient is only a part of the larger Asian continent. That said, I've never heard it used in a pejorative way. Rather, when I see it, as a history student, it's usually in the context of the location. "He travelled along the orient" ect. I suppose I could see how calling someone an "oriental" person would be offensive, though.Lil devils x said:
A quick Internet search shows that the terms negative context is a recent development, beginning largely in the 70s. Oh my, now I'm terribly embarrassed.
I kind of find it amusing how the US exports its slurs along its popular culture. Case in point: I live in Hungary. In my 25 years I have only met about a handful of black people here, almost all of them in the capital, yet the world "******" is just as entrenched here.
There is a flipside to this as well though: We have a type of confectionery called "Negro". It is a black hard candy created by one Pietro Negro, and it has been in production for nearly 90 years now, yet you can still find foreigners on YouTube and other places getting outraged over how "racist" it is.
The moral of the story? Context is everything, and people just love to jump to conclusions and declare something "offensive", because getting outraged feels better than sitting down and actually researching said context.
There is a flipside to this as well though: We have a type of confectionery called "Negro". It is a black hard candy created by one Pietro Negro, and it has been in production for nearly 90 years now, yet you can still find foreigners on YouTube and other places getting outraged over how "racist" it is.
The moral of the story? Context is everything, and people just love to jump to conclusions and declare something "offensive", because getting outraged feels better than sitting down and actually researching said context.
Well it always depend on context and culture, but it seems like everyone here understand that. For me I've never been in such a situation where any sort of racist situations has occured but I'm not living anywhere near a place where there are alot of cultures and I don't really socialize with many none friends anyways.
In short. There are so many different situations on almost every single occasion so I can't really answer such a question easy nor would it be a good idea but I can say that I would probably know when and when not to use what word or words, but if I would fail at that I would have no problems to change and/or refrase my choice of words.
I would also recommend this youtube video (you might skip to about 06:00 for the cultural thing), I agree on most of what he say there, mostly because the cultural difference and thatwe , in essence, shouldn't be quick to judge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbG8DvRKoJw
Cheers and sorry for the echo.
In short. There are so many different situations on almost every single occasion so I can't really answer such a question easy nor would it be a good idea but I can say that I would probably know when and when not to use what word or words, but if I would fail at that I would have no problems to change and/or refrase my choice of words.
I would also recommend this youtube video (you might skip to about 06:00 for the cultural thing), I agree on most of what he say there, mostly because the cultural difference and thatwe , in essence, shouldn't be quick to judge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbG8DvRKoJw
Cheers and sorry for the echo.
It goes back to "Why bother?"
I can't think of any circumstances in which uttering "******" (or "nigga") would be the best course of action (unless you're reading a book, maybe). It hardly matters if the act is racist or not, all that matters is that, as of now, it will upset nearby people if you say it. Why would you want to do that? I wouldn't.
I can't think of any circumstances in which uttering "******" (or "nigga") would be the best course of action (unless you're reading a book, maybe). It hardly matters if the act is racist or not, all that matters is that, as of now, it will upset nearby people if you say it. Why would you want to do that? I wouldn't.
A word born to basically separate humans from nigh human-looking cattle strikes to me of racism.RedDeadFred said:
I get what you're saying about the F-word use. If I'm with people I have comfort with, I just say fuck. I worked with kids before, sometimes you catch them saying it. When their parents come, you take them aside and you have to explain the situation. F-word is useful there. Censorship on tv. Curses aren't allowed. But if you're quoting someone, you have to say "'F-- this' said Paris Hilton" to not get fined.
I... really didn't know people did the F-- thing seriously. I thought it was done stupidly as a joke like "I know I can say fuck, but this is funnier". Like Ron Burgundy's curses. Great Odin's Raven, or by the Beard of Zeus and things like that.
That's not quite the same. If they were still okay with swastikas, it would be.loa said:
Anyway, it's complicated. As you said, blanket censorship isn't exactly helping much (and definitely hurts in some ways), but I can't say for sure if it's worse than allowing that word the flow freely.
For now, I'll just go with Lacktheknack and say don't, because why bother to in the first place?
Well actually, yes. It's just that it adds the stigma of people laughing at you for using it wrong too.
It all depends on the context. IF you're deliberately trying to offend someone by calling them a *******, then you're an asshole.
But if you're just talking normally, and it just happens to come up, (this thread is a good example) then what's the harm?
I think it's ridiculous that a word should become so taboo that people are forced to refer to it by it's initial. Everyone KNOWS what you mean. Why is that somehow better than saying the word itself?
I don't see any point in dancing around the issue. Start saying the word and take away it's power.
*I type this in the full knowledge that I have precisely zero chance that the word filter will allow this through. Ahh well.
EDIT: Way to prove me wrong, Escapist...
But if you're just talking normally, and it just happens to come up, (this thread is a good example) then what's the harm?
I think it's ridiculous that a word should become so taboo that people are forced to refer to it by it's initial. Everyone KNOWS what you mean. Why is that somehow better than saying the word itself?
I don't see any point in dancing around the issue. Start saying the word and take away it's power.
*I type this in the full knowledge that I have precisely zero chance that the word filter will allow this through. Ahh well.
EDIT: Way to prove me wrong, Escapist...