Why did you quote me? Also, it's not just the Catholic Church. All major religions (except for perhaps Buddhism) promote faith. If they didn't, they would stop having followers not be a major religion.Agayek said:
Is Faith a Virtue?
- Thread starter MalthusX
- Start date
Yeah, pretty much this, in a world where the definition of a single word is as flexible as it is, "virtue" means very little.Glefistus said:
Which is actually quite tragic.
if you don't have faith, then you wouldn't be here, because, as WanderFreak put's it:
but thats only if you have false faith because you cannot have faith in anything else why is basically cult logic, and btw WanderFreak when the devil tempted jesus in the desert during passover by bringing him otop a building and saying that if you truly are the son of god he will send angels below to slow your fall, but jesus just said do not test god for you do not control him. So anyways, if you don't have faith you can breath, then you might not. If you don't have faith you can get up, you might not even try. And eventually when you can't do anything, you'll, well, die. Now isn't that just pleseant? ^__^WanderFreak said:
Faith isnt a virture, its the most powerfull weapon in the history of mankind and will continue to be. Faith can be used to do the most terrible terrible things. Having someones unshaking devotion is a dangerous thing (im thinking pope here) and if misued can make the world a very bad place indeed (thinking crusades/inquesition/holy wars). If focussed into morally good things however faith can be powerfull in a good way. Faith has power because it needs no explanation, thats why its faith, and thats why any gods dont show themselves because it would make faith pointless. If you proved god existed faith wouldnt exist. Anyway with faith you have peoples certain fealty as a representation of "God" or of a religion. If the leaders of said religion had truly faithfull followers (100% subservant) and had quite a few of them it could do pretty much anything it wanted. It could tell its followers to do anything and they would do it having faith that their God wants it to happen. You could start wars that way. People did. Having pure faith means you are 100% certain anyone and everyone else is wrong concerning anything that goes against your faith. Thats not a virtue, thats single mindedness.
We should not have to accept completely unproven claims to get that stuff.grimsprice said:
That's not faith, its rationality.klakkat said:
I believe that holding beliefs without evidence is inherently bad. It will impair your ability to recognize correct ideas.klakkat said:
Ah, yes, truer words cannot be spoken. But for some of us there will always be a very important difference between 'what we should' and 'what we actually need'.WayOutThere said:
Faith in itself has no intrinsic value.
It depends on what you do with this faith, that makes you "good" or "bad" and thus turns faith into a virtue or a failing.
Examples?
A faithful man who goes to the homeless shelter to help the needy.
Or a faithful man who physically assaults a gay man for no other reason that that man's homosexuality.
Faith itself does not provide any form of moral high ground, it's what you decide to do with faith (just as it is with any other form of conviction you might hold) that determines that.
It depends on what you do with this faith, that makes you "good" or "bad" and thus turns faith into a virtue or a failing.
Examples?
A faithful man who goes to the homeless shelter to help the needy.
Or a faithful man who physically assaults a gay man for no other reason that that man's homosexuality.
Faith itself does not provide any form of moral high ground, it's what you decide to do with faith (just as it is with any other form of conviction you might hold) that determines that.
There is faith, and there is idiocity.WanderFreak said:
Again, faith is a double-edged sword. Sometimes people THINK they have faith, but if they persecute someone just for his lifestyle (that doesn't hurt anyone, mind you) they are not really faithful at all.Skeleon said:
I feel sorry for all the empty, hollow lives that are pretty much pointless. Why live life, if you just die? This is the path to nihlism.WayOutThere said:
Well, the problem with that is that the Bible (I'm guessing we're talking about Christians... again; though similar things could be said about Islam (normal Moslems versus extremists) or probably any other religion) contradicts itself a lot and various groups of Christians all interpret it differently. What is to be viewed as a "metaphor" or what is still of "literal meaning", even today?Abedeus said:
This is why we end up with such a wide variety of people who are all technically Christians but may follow quite different sets of rules.
Personally, I don't think the persecuting man is any less certain in his faith than the helping man. You might disapprove of his interpretation, as do I, but that does not change the intensity of his faith I daresay.
As for your point about empty, hollow existences, we had this discussion in another recent thread and ended up without any kind of making progress on understanding. This is why I won't argue with you on this point.
I love Barbaque Lays potato chips. But, a bag of them will only last so long. Can I not enjoy them while they last?Abedeus said:
Exactly how is that true?Abedeus said:
So, you are saying you live according to the simple "carpe diem", hedonistic life without a purpose just to eat, sleep, mate and... basically, nothing better than a common cat.WayOutThere said:
Jesus said "love thy neighbour" (spelling? I'm not native, I don't have any English Bibles). If you hate someone, you are doing the OPPOSITE. You can't hate, that's one of the worst emotions. Leave the judgement to God, he doesn't need human emotions to help him. Anyone who thinks He needs him is thinking above God, therefore a sinner and a heretic.
For some, it's as simple as that, but for most there is a meaning of life to be found for themselves.Abedeus said:
There's no one, true goal to be reached unless you create such a goal for yourself.
There are also moral values to adhere to, your society to protect, a will to better oneself or help others and the wish to leave a legacy.
The thing is, people are so utterly different in their priorities, how could one ever pose one specific goal for all atheists in the world?
Does that make him faithless, though? No. He believes in what he does, however misguided it may be.
Faith can be a virtue. It can also be a vice (I'm looking at you iCs2xist).MalthusX said:
Three virtues are all one needs to create a universe of virtue: Compassion, frugality, and humility. All other virtues are inferior! (Yeah, I know I just violated the third one I listed. I'm still too much pirate to be a really good Taoist)