Is FanFiction Any Less Legitimate Than The Source Material.

[FolloweroftheApoetic]

While Fan fiction is by its very nature always quite derivative their are benefits to writing atop per-established concepts. One aspect that will become something of a negative as the medium continues to grow and becomes assimilated by the main culture as this generation and the next slowly comes into their own is that many artist and writers will continue to add to the established making these old concepts more rich but maintaining a status quo that drains originality from the zeitgeist. (A word I've come to believe means our collective artists and opinionated out put into the media and culture at large) Its a double edged sword and it is worth considering but it wont bring about the end of the world... I think... I'm looking at you adventure time.

This actually has already occurred in comic books. Comic books is exactly what I'm talking about. While all works are in someway derivative just as everything can be considered derivative when you put it under a microscope Comic especially are. We have in comic books what I'd expect to see be produced from fan fiction in ten to thirty years. Its an established form of fiction that authors add too over the years. Its sort of an amalgam with philosophys being applied to characters and flat out changed over the coarse of years.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hey?

You mean is fan-fiction inherently worse than published stuff?

In that case, no. There is a lot of fan-fic that gets published. 50 Shades of Grey was a Twilight fanfic, and Mortal Instruments started out as Harry Potter, IIRC.

 

[Genocidicles]

Well it's not canon, and likely never will be.

So yes, not as legitimate as the source material.

 

[Padwolf]

It's not canon though so probably not as legitimate, however some fanfictions are so damn well written, sometimes much better written than some books that have been published. For example, 50 Shades of Shit start as a fanfiction and was published. I don't know how it got the green light, it's filled with so many writing errors.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's not canon though so probably not as legitimate, however some fanfictions are so damn well written, sometimes much better written than some books that have been published. For example, 50 Shades of Shit start as a fanfiction and was published. I don't know how it got the green light, it's filled with so many writing errors.

Well, it got very popular, so it seems it was the right decision.

In any case, it was a Twilight Fanfic...not like the bar has been set very high.

 

[Queen Michael]

Hey?

You mean is fan-fiction inherently worse than published stuff?

In that case, no. There is a lot of fan-fic that gets published. 50 Shades of Grey was a Twilight fanfic, and Mortal Instruments started out as Harry Potter, IIRC.

But both of the series you're mentioning are inferior to the source material.

 

[VanQ]

I don't see why it would be any less "legitimate" than the source material. It's just not going to be canon and you can take a guess on where it's going to be in regards to quality. It could turn out better than the original; see: The Melancholy of Haruki Suzumiya (a parody of Haruhi Suzumiya where someone rewrote the entire first novel but genderswapped every character) or it could turn out far worse than you could ever imagine; see: 50 Shades of Gray.

I once considered writing Sword Art Online/iDOLM@STER cross-over fanfiction but managed to slap the silly out of myself and set to work on writing my own original content in stead. I still haven't finished it, but it's about a group of 3 girls that get trapped in an MMO death game similar to SAO. It's pretty terrible but it scratched my creative itch.

Hey?

You mean is fan-fiction inherently worse than published stuff?

In that case, no. There is a lot of fan-fic that gets published. 50 Shades of Grey was a Twilight fanfic, and Mortal Instruments started out as Harry Potter, IIRC.

But both of the series you're mentioning are inferior to the source material.

He never said that they weren't. Just that they got published.

 

[mecegirl]

I wouldn't say that they are legitimate. But some are really, really good. And for the good ones that I've read based on superhero comics I do wish that they could actually write for the real comic.

I think that some writers never break out of writing fan fiction, but it can be a great tool for developing writing skills.

 

[Avalanche91]

I wouldn't say that they are legitimate. But some are really, really good. And for the good ones that I've read based on superhero comics I do wish that they could actually write for the real comic.

I think that some writers never break out of writing fan fiction, but it can be a great tool for developing writing skills.

Yeah, pretty much this. I would be very hesistant to call fanfiction (own work included) as legitimate as the source material. It is a non-canon side-story written by a writer the established writer(s) never even heard about. There is some really good fanfiction out there though. It can be really fun to write (or read) and gives starting writer's a basic template to work from.

Basically what I'm saying is that fanfiction is the gateway drug to writing.

 

[Story]

I'm not a fan of fan-fiction. (Hehe)
I respect those that write it, but if I want to take the time to read something within a certain universe it might as well be cannon.

 

[Entitled]

In these days, canonicity is more of a legal concept than a creative one.

It's all about IP ownership, and licensing, and which corporation controls what, not about inherent degrees of originality or quality. The Marvel and DC verse comic books are essentially "fanfiction", but no one calls them that, because they are licensed.

50 Shades of Grey is only called fanfiction derisively because it is hated, (and because it is known that it had earlier versions that were literally fanfiction), but pop culure is full of other published novels, that are inspired by other works to a similar degree, and never get called that, as long as they make up character names so they are "original" enough not to get sued.

Historically, the "canon" of a story has evolved through time, with retelling. The characters of Robin Hood, King Arthur, Little Red Riding Hood, even Romeo and Juliet, evolved through various versions with elements dropping out and getting added through time by different writers, and the public arbitrarily accepted some.

If copyright law would change, and it would only involve control only over one's own respective writings, and not censorship of other artists' work, then we would see something similar emerging again. The "Star Wars canon" or the +Harry Potter Canon" would consist of dozens of studios, developers, and writers doing their own stuff, and whichever becomes the most popular gets accepted as the "canon" that the rest will keep adding up to.

 

[TheIceQueen]

I came in here, ready to storm in with a resounding "Yes" because they're not canon, but then I remembered the Star Wars canon and how ungodly awful a lot of the extended universe is, making this question harder to answer.

However, that in itself is a pretty good answer. Now, let me go weep at the destruction of my childhood. Stupid Dun Moch...

 

[Ratty]

While Fan fiction is by its very nature always quite derivative their are benefits to writing atop per-established concepts. One aspect that will become something of a negative as the medium continues to grow and becomes assimilated by the main culture as this generation and the next slowly comes into their own is that many artist and writers will continue to add to the established making these old concepts more rich but maintaining a status quo that drains originality from the zeitgeist. (A word I've come to believe means our collective artists and opinionated out put into the media and culture at large) Its a double edged sword and it is worth considering but it wont bring about the end of the world... I think... I'm looking at you adventure time.

This actually has already occurred in comic books. Comic books is exactly what I'm talking about. While all works are in someway derivative just as everything can be considered derivative when you put it under a microscope Comic especially are. We have in comic books what I'd expect to see be produced from fan fiction in ten to thirty years. Its an established form of fiction that authors add too over the years. Its sort of an amalgam with philosophys being applied to characters and flat out changed over the coarse of years.

To answer this question you need to clearly define two things:

1. What would you consider legitimate/why is it legitimate?

2. What constitutes "Fan Fiction" and what separates fan fiction from "homage"?

People have probably been telling derivative works since we first started telling stories. As a way to explore new areas of the same concepts/characters. Just look at the tradition of stories featuring the folk hero "Jack" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_%28hero%29 for one example.

When Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes (and probably before) fan writers set about filling the need the audience felt for more tales of their hero, and stories featuring the detective have been coming out pretty much ever since. One or two authors have even made a bit of a career out of it. August Derleth adapted a Sherlock Holmes pastiche he wrote into a story about his very similar character who lived a generation later, "Solar Pons". And went on to publish many Solar Pons books over the years. Is Solar Pons more or less legitimate because he's technically a different character, even if his stories stick more rigidly to the style, tone and content of the original Holmes canon than many since-published stories featuring Holmes himself do?

Is Star Trek: TNG less legitimate because it's derivative of Star Trek: TOS? Is Star Trek: TOS less legitimate because it's derivative of TV westerns like "Wagon Train"? The rabbit hole goes deep.

CAN fanfiction be as or more creative than the original works? Yes, because, for example, they are not bound by the constraints of "canon" so they may actually end stories or kill characters that corporation controlled IPs (like the comic industry) would never let happen. DOES most fanfiction do this? I really don't know. It has a reputation of "just" being a form of wish-fulfillment, but isn't that what all escapist storytelling is in a way?

 

[Charleston]

One aspect that will become something of a negative as the medium continues to grow and becomes assimilated by the main culture as this generation and the next slowly comes into their own is that many artist and writers will continue to add to the established making these old concepts more rich but maintaining a status quo that drains originality from the zeitgeist.

From George R.R. Martin's website:

"Q: I want to be a writer. Can you give me any advice?

A: Write. Write every day, even if it is only a page or two. The more you write, the better you?ll get. But don?t write in my universe, or Tolkien?s, or the Marvel universe, or the Star Trek universe, or any other borrowed background. Every writer needs to learn to create his own characters, worlds, and settings. Using someone else?s world is the lazy way out. If you don?t exercise those ?literary muscles,? you?ll never develop them."

I think the problem with fanfic is that it's bad. It really is. And it doesn't promote good writing, 50 Shades being the ultimate proof. I can only think of a few Star Wars comics that were legitimately good. The rest was, is and sadly will be a clusterfuck forever.

 

[Rolaoi]

The myriad of Gospels and Le Morte d'Arthur say no, fan-fiction is no less legitimate.

 

[Ratty]

One aspect that will become something of a negative as the medium continues to grow and becomes assimilated by the main culture as this generation and the next slowly comes into their own is that many artist and writers will continue to add to the established making these old concepts more rich but maintaining a status quo that drains originality from the zeitgeist.

From George R.R. Martin's website:

"Q: I want to be a writer. Can you give me any advice?

A: Write. Write every day, even if it is only a page or two. The more you write, the better you?ll get. But don?t write in my universe, or Tolkien?s, or the Marvel universe, or the Star Trek universe, or any other borrowed background. Every writer needs to learn to create his own characters, worlds, and settings. Using someone else?s world is the lazy way out. If you don?t exercise those ?literary muscles,? you?ll never develop them."

I think the problem with fanfic is that it's bad. It really is. And it doesn't promote good writing, 50 Shades being the ultimate proof. I can only think of a few Star Wars comics that were legitimately good. The rest was, is and sadly will be a clusterfuck forever.

"I'm not a Star Trek writer, I'm a science fiction writer. I like building my own worlds more than share-cropping in someone else's." - David Gerrold, author of beloved Star Trek episode "The Trouble With Tribbles". http://www.startrekanimated.com/tas_david_gerrold.html

Certainly there are people who agree with this view. But there is a market for this kind of writing, and everything is derivative on some level.[footnote]To use Sherlock Holmes again.- Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty > Nayland Smith and Fu-Manchu > James Bond and his various super villains > A thousand imitators.[/footnote] And whether it's fans fulfilling their fantasies or working writers doing tie-in novels it'll be out there. I guess unless you're like Anne Rice and go batshit crazy on your entire fanfiction community. (Shhh nobody tell her about the World of Darkness)

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Non-canon yes. Legitimate? Depends on the quality of the writing, (is the Star Wars EU books now technically fanfiction since its not canon anymore?)

 

[Entitled]

I think the problem with fanfic is that it's bad. It really is. And it doesn't promote good writing, 50 Shades being the ultimate proof.

If anything, 50 Shades of Grey is proof of how little an "original IP" means. Make up a new names, and there you have it, a whole new universe and characters. Crappy, badly written, and useless, sure, but no longer "derivative" as such. The only reason why it got caught by the public as "fanfiction", is because it's earlier version was published on fanfiction.net, while other equally bad works get presented as "new IPs" in the first place.

Meanwhile, insightful, biting satire with unique characterizations, such as Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, or reasonably well-written adventures that would work well as a licensed spinoff stories, such as the Alexandra Quick series, are being called "fanficion" because they still use recognizeable character and location names while being better than many"originals" like 50 shades, and than many licensed derivatives as well.

A: Write. Write every day, even if it is only a page or two. The more you write, the better you?ll get. But don?t write in my universe, or Tolkien?s, or the Marvel universe, or the Star Trek universe, or any other borrowed background. Every writer needs to learn to create his own characters, worlds, and settings. Using someone else?s world is the lazy way out. If you don?t exercise those ?literary muscles,? you?ll never develop them."

Sound advice, if you want to build an universe for your own fantasy saga like G. R. R. Martin.

For many other types of writing, quite useless. If you want to write historical fiction, learning how to use pre-existing figures and locations will be your biggest asset. Even if you want to write something like a romance, "worldbuilding" is quite useless. Most of them take place in "our world" anyways, you only need to add a texture to the details.

Itr would be rather weird to stay that Virgil took "the lazy way out", for borrwing the Iliad's universe and characters in the Aeneid, or that Tom Stoppard took "the lazy way out" with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead using Shakespeare world instead of creating "his own universe". Not to mention all those renaissance paintings based on mythology or the Bible.

"Creating your own universe" is a trivially specific niche of the modern speculative fiction genres, and to a select few among them, not an inherent requirement of all art.

I can only think of a few Star Wars comics that were legitimately good. The rest was, is and sadly will be a clusterfuck forever.

Oh, licensed derivatives count as fanfiction too? Then you are arguing for the badness of the Walking Dead video games, the Dark Knight movie, Maleficent, the Knights of the Old republic games, every James Bond movie ever, and of course, the latest series of My Little Pony.

Some of those you could debate with, quality being subjective and all that, but I think we can agree that categorically dismissing all works based on pre-existing IPs (and based on classic works that weren't copyrighted), would involve arguing against an overwhelming majority of respected and beloved works.

 

[Charleston]

If anything, 50 Shades of Grey is proof of how little an "original IP" means. Make up a new names, and there you have it, a whole new universe and characters. Crappy, badly written, and useless, sure, but no longer "derivative" as such. The only reason why it got caught by the public as "fanfiction", is because it's earlier version was published on fanfiction.net, while other equally bad works get presented as "new IPs" in the first place.

Meanwhile, insightful, biting satire with unique characterizations, such as Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, or reasonably well-written adventures that would work well as a licensed spinoff stories, such as the Alexandra Quick series, are being called "fanficion" because they still use recognizeable character and location names while being better than many"originals" like 50 shades, and than many licensed derivatives as well.

But then wouldn't the problem be with the term "original IP"?. Original IP is, for all I care, a financial term. 50 Shades didn't gain any value by changing the names of characters. I haven't read any of those you mentioned, but just by looking at them, fuck they're long.

Sound advice, if you want to build an universe for your own fantasy saga like G. R. R. Martin.

For many other types of writing, quite useless. If you want to write historical fiction, learning how to use pre-existing figures and locations will be your biggest asset. Even if you want to write something like a romance, "worldbuilding" is quite useless. Most of them take place in "our world" anyways, you only need to add a texture to the details.

Itr would be rather weird to stay that Virgil took "the lazy way out", for borrwing the Iliad's universe and characters in the Aeneid, or that Tom Stoppard took "the lazy way out" with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead using Shakespeare world instead of creating "his own universe". Not to mention all those renaissance paintings based on mythology or the Bible.

"Creating your own universe" is a trivially specific niche of the modern speculative fiction genres, and to a select few among them, not an inherent requirement of all art.

There's a difference between using historical/biographical data and characters from pre-existing fiction. The former needs an additional step of thinking and work to be translated into fiction, whereas already fictional characters can feel more "pre-chewed". Also, Martin's talking about something specific: young writers. If he thought that should apply to all works he'd be directing the TV series, writing the scripts and applying make-up on every actor.

Oh, licensed derivatives count as fanfiction too? Then you are arguing for the badness of the Walking Dead video games, the Dark Knight movie, Maleficent, the Knights of the Old republic games, every James Bond movie ever, and of course, the latest series of My Little Pony.

Some of those you could debate with, quality being subjective and all that, but I think we can agree that categorically dismissing all works based on pre-existing IPs (and based on classic works that weren't copyrighted), would involve arguing against an overwhelming majority of respected and beloved works.

My bad, I had a brainfart and thought of them as fanfic. I don't think I've seen any comic fanfics. Okay, yeah, the porn ones.

 

[TallanKhan]

Legitimate is difficult to define in this context. If you mean is it less valid in terms of the creative process that has gone into its output, well, yes and no.

Fan fiction is at its heart a derivative process, requiring less creativity and effort to adapt an existing work than to create a new one. In addition the source material will act like a framework which detracts from the freedom of any creativity.

However, just because something requires less creativity and effort, that doesn't necessarily mean that someone writing fan fiction will have actually put less effort in, or have been any less creative.

Overall it depends on the quality of the final work.