Is Fighting Dead

[mParadox]

Maxima is a favourite of mine on that team. Anyone who counts a right straight as a special move is alright by me. I like command throws so it was always going to happen.

I like K' for the fire. And that glove. o,o

And I think I should finally contribute to the discussion:

You can Tekken as an example. You can button mash your way to victory but there's a satisfaction in knowing all the combos and beating the opponent without getting hit once.

 

[ltbigjohn]

you really should read things aloud before you post them places, because i had a hard time reading this topic. you should really check out street fighter, i find that the community around the game, more often then not, mirrors what you are looking for in a fighting game. by which i mean people who are more serious about crafting their skill. the board leader in mortal kombat vs dc universe for the xbox 360 was a similar type of player this guy by the name dcninja with #'s after it... i think? anyway he would mostly play as superman and would spam this ground pound attack that couldn't be blocked or gotten out of. made it a real disappointment to fight him, however finally breaking it and getting to beat him around for a bit was very satisfying, to imagine the look on his face as his precious and fictitious winning streak slowly withered away under sonya blades crushing kicks. also check out arcades they are really fun and a great place to meet people with this same common goal in mind of perfecting their skills. finally the older versions of fighting game like street fighter 2 and 2 alpha and so on tend to still have some form of fanatic fan base which has, for the most part, long since banished mashing and spamming players to the newer games, these games do still have their gurus, if you can find them... and 50 cents... and an arcade.

 

[Iwata]

Is fighting dead?!

By no means. Marvel VS Capcom 3, SSFIV AE, MK, the new BlazBlue...

Fighting is alive and well. Maybe you just suck at it. I know I do! :3

 

[katsabas]

I'm actually an RPG player mainly...and I'll have you know my playtime in fighters rivals if not outright surpasses that of my RPG.

How does that work? An mainly RPG player that has more hours clocked into fighters than in actual RPGs?

As for money's worth, variety or not it's all about the experience. You may have more fun with less variety if the battle system is especially deep.

Then it looks like we have different standards.

"Unrealistic" doesn't equal "childish". Hadoukens materialize the way they do by following anime tropes and mythical stories. They're a stylistic depiction stemming from religion, sort of like how our Angels have Halos over their heads. It's not the same thing. Not all unrealistic elements in games are created equal.

I never said that one equals the other. What I was getting to is that games like SF or MVC are only as 'childlish' as MK is. One through violence and the other through outrageous chi blasts. I cannot help but find a hole in the logic you follow. Since when ripping off someone's spine or gutting them with a hooksword is considered childish? Especially considering how graphic MK is.

I actually played it together with my dad and my mom helped us on the riddles too...so yeah...way to generalize lol. Just because kids aren't taught the difference between fiction and reality before they're 15 where you are it doesn't mean that is the case for everyone.

The 'not everyone' part was to avoid just that. Generalizing. And even if I one knows the difference between fiction and reality, that doesn't mean that the first thing he will do is go watch something about a guy lost in a town full of monsters, looking for his dead wife.

 

[sabercrusader]

So if someone walks up to you and forces their thumbs into your eyes, are you going to lecture them about touching gloves or bowing before starting anything?

Edit: Gentlemen rules are for friends, the dojo and tv, survival is top priority in the real world.

But I'm not talking about that. This thread wasn't about that.

This thread was about how when the bell rings to fight, let's take for example Reptile. For a second.

The game says fight, they throw an acid ball immediatedly at me.

Now I can dodge this acid ball, maybe I jump to dodge it, but they throw a new one while I land, I can duck but they throw another one lower or maybe the one they threw catches me.

I can block it with my block. But now I'm stuck with to much distance and they can throw acid at me and chunk my health even while blocking.

Trying to get in close they hit with an acid ball and now I am on the grand as the character gets up, they throw another and another and another and another. The character can't really finish his animation of getting or even get up because the very moment they stir up acid is being thrown.

There is a difference between fighting and throwing fireballs.

Mind you this is an example, before I learned a counter.

So... where's the disrespect? If they're keeping you at a distance, it sounds like they're doing well enough and you're not happy about it.

Argue this with most any somewhat serious people and they'll tell you it's called zoning. Unless the character can negate projectiles and rush at you (Jade - UMK3), they're doing something right. Because not only are they chipping your health, they're running down the clock which will cause you to do something risky and if they're on top of it, you'll get punished. It's a legitimate tactic, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's disrespectful/dishonorable. Get off your high horse and either find people who want to share the stick up your ass or don't play.

Zoning? I call it cheap tactics, they are doing this just to win at the expense of your fun, ya know, the thing that games were orginally made for other than story. Standing back and spamming one or two projectiles isn't skillful and while it may be a legitamite tactic, dosen't make it any less annoying. Doing it occasionally isn't bad and I admit that I do it sometimes, not a whole match though. It's not fun to play a game where you can't even land a single blow becuase thay are spamming a move at you constantly, if they are better than me, but we actually have a fight where I can fight back, then I will still have fun, even if I lose, winning isn't the main thing for me, having fun is.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

How does that work? An mainly RPG player that has more hours clocked into fighters than in actual RPGs?

I only really play one fighting game, I just focus my energy on it to be really good. Rpgs I play a ton of. The average rpg has about 80-120 hours in it, I don't ever replay story-heavy games so once I'm done with one I get into the next. I put more time in fighting games cause stories need you to be in a certain mood to experience them thus I can't say I always feel like playing an rpg (and I never play more than 1 rpg simultaneously thus I do have an idea of the type of story I'll be getting and how I feel about that at the moment) but fighting games are a different experience which doesn't demand you to be in a certain mood in order to enjoy to the fullest. At the same time, I enjoy those story moments more and I have much more overall experience with those rpgs, thus I consider myself an rpg player. Fighters obviously are a close second though.

I never said that one equals the other. What I was getting to is that games like SF or MVC are only as 'childlish' as MK is. One through violence and the other through outrageous chi blasts. I cannot help but find a hole in the logic you follow. Since when ripping off someone's spine or gutting them with a hooksword is considered childish? Especially considering how graphic MK is.

I seem to be repeating what you just said but it seems we have different standards as to what is outrageous and what is childish. For someone like me who grew up with the original dragon ball, hadouken is a rather reserved and quite pitiful chi blast compared to what is out there. I don't get a feeling of "wow, that's so crazy and out there!" when I see it, I get a feeling of retro and "hah, look at how weak Ryu is...the ground under his hadouken isn't even melting !".

All that gore a child's depiction at "awesome" stuff. I don't make it up, they themselves know they're doing immature pandering with it. It's like that misconception that maturity equals sex and violence and a ton of swearing that lingers in too many games nowadays...that maturity is only skin deep and indeed childish.

The 'not everyone' part was to avoid just that. Generalizing. And even if I one knows the difference between fiction and reality, that doesn't mean that the first thing he will do is go watch something about a guy lost in a town full of monsters, looking for his dead wife.

Certainly, but if he does watch that he won't be damaged by it, which is the whole point. We shouldn't make our kids just avoid danger since some dangers can't be avoided, it's better to just enable them to outright not be affected by it.

Oh and in Silent Hill 1 the main character is looking for his daughter .

 

[tunderball]

Well the game has only just come out so it kind of makes sense that not everybody will have mastered it to the same level as you. Besides the whole online gaming culture revolves round winning games so it makes sense that most people will use whatever cheap tactics they can.
Maybe you should try another game that it better balanced and the only people left playing it online are masters?
And honour doesn't exist in online games I suggest you realise that soon.

 

[Harley Duke]

Hate to break it to you, friend, but your problem started when you tried to play Mortal Kombat. If you're looking for combos, strategy, cross-ups, good placement, floor control, etc., you should pick up something like Street Fighter or Marvel vs. Capcom. Mortal Kombat is really shooting for the whole "ha ha they bleed all over the place, wow I just rammed knives through that guy's skull in slow-motion X-ray vision" kind of thing.

 

[katsabas]

I only really play one fighting game, I just focus my energy on it to be really good. Rpgs I play a ton of. The average rpg has about 80-120 hours in it, I don't ever replay story-heavy games so once I'm done with one I get into the next. I put more time in fighting games cause stories need you to be in a certain mood to experience them thus I can't say I always feel like playing an rpg (and I never play more than 1 rpg simultaneously thus I do have an idea of the type of story I'll be getting and how I feel about that at the moment) but fighting games are a different experience which doesn't demand you to be in a certain mood in order to enjoy to the fullest. At the same time, I enjoy those story moments more and I have much more overall experience with those rpgs, thus I consider myself an rpg player. Fighters obviously are a close second though.

Again, different standards. ME2 is really story heavy and I am on my 3rd playthrough. And I am always in the mood for a good story. In order to practice at SF, I need to be mentally ready to get my fingers fucked to death.

I seem to be repeating what you just said but it seems we have different standards as to what is outrageous and what is childish. For someone like me who grew up with the original dragon ball, hadouken is a rather reserved and quite pitiful chi blast compared to what is out there. I don't get a feeling of "wow, that's so crazy and out there!" when I see it, I get a feeling of retro and "hah, look at how weak Ryu is...the ground under his hadouken isn't even melting !".

All that gore a child's depiction at "awesome" stuff. I don't make it up, they themselves know they're doing immature pandering with it. It's like that misconception that maturity equals sex and violence and a ton of swearing that lingers in too many games nowadays...that maturity is only skin deep and indeed childish.

I wouldn't know about that. What I found awesome when I was 10 was (and still is) Spider-Man and not someone losing his head. And all that while I grew up with Dragonball as well. But I dropped it after Goku's brother showed up. Got tired of it.

Certainly, but if he does watch that he won't be damaged by it, which is the whole point. We shouldn't make our kids just avoid danger since some dangers can't be avoided, it's better to just enable them to outright not be affected by it. Oh and in Silent Hill 1 the main character is looking for his daughter .

Hah, yeah I know. I was referring to the second one. I didn't mean we should shield our kids from violence in VGs cause nowadays, VGs are modern day fairy tales. What I meant is that you have to know when to let your kid see this kind of stuff. Timing is important.

 

[Manji187]

Hmm...how would an "honorable" fighting game play like? If I were to design one I would...

-NOT include any projectile moves
-NOT include any teleportation moves
-NOT include any unblockable moves
-include an optional "stun" setting (which can be switched off). I'm talking Street Fighter style stun.
-include an optional penalty system like in the Guilty Gear franchise (if you turtle too much...you lose your super bar) with different settings...like the "anti spam" setting (use a move too often in rapid succesion and any hit you subsequently take gives you slightly more damage)
-include an optional "ring-out" (i.e. walled stage or open stage).
-restrict the juggling...don't expect to pull off more than 3 hits.
-include optional invincibility frames on wake up.

I would basically make a highly customizable fighting game so anyone can set up a "clean good fight".

Or...take Virtua Fighter 5 and add a lot of options.

But then again....VF5 isn't exactly "accessible". It takes dedication...something that button mashers do not consider fun.

 

[NitehawkFury]

Look, it's been said, it's been biased, it's been lambasted, but the heart of the matter is that online gaming, or even gaming in general, is a cutthroat competition. Everybody's looking to win, no matter what, and most don't care about just whomping you over and over again.

Mortal Kombat, (or really any fighter), isn't done justice the way it would have been done back in the arcades of decades past. I remember playing MK3 for hours in the arcades as a teenager, as well as Street Fighter. Eventually I moved on to Tekken because it "felt right" to me.

But playing in the arcades, I understand what you're talking about. Sometimes you'd come up against a player who would spam certain attacks, just because they saw that it would usually get them the win.

While at first, you'd get slammed by it, with some dedication, there was always a counter. There was always a way to work through it. And it's supremely satisfying to just destroy a "cheap" player, especially as they panic with you completely negating their little tricks and tearing them apart.

In online play, we've lost some of that personal experience of having a throwdown with someone who's standing right next to you. We hide behind our faceless usernames and scream at our opponents through our microphones, free to be douchebags from the safety of our living rooms.

That's just the way it is now. So the best way to get back at them? Just learn how to counter their tactics. If Saibot's giving you trouble, find an appropriate counter. There's always a way to win. It just may mean altering your playstyle a little. Doing so will not only help you to win that match, but it will help you become a more well-rounded player overall, and help you too see how to approach future challenges with a more experienced perspective.

 

[Dream_Sequencer]

Is fighting dead?!

By no means. Marvel VS Capcom 3, SSFIV AE, MK, the new BlazBlue...

Fighting is alive and well. Maybe you just suck at it. I know I do! :3

I think everyone mistook my question.

I was asking about the Fighting genre being dead, it isn't.

What I meant is that have people given up on actual fighting. Since all they do most times is spam a single attack over and over again.

edit: Btw, I completely disagree that Mortal Kombat is not a combo game. If it wasn't me and my friends wouldn't be sitting with one another fighting each other's combos. Ten hit Baraka combo, Kitana fan combo. There are combos in this game and they can be easily used.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

There is no honor in online gaming. People will choose whatever strategy they find cheapest and most effective. See: every competitive multiplayer game ever made. Spamming grenade launchers in shooters, spamming projectiles in fighting games, spamming the most effective units in RTS (SC2 MMM from around release immediately springs to mind). If you're looking for a sense of honor in your gaming, you should play with friends. You will find no fair fights online, generally.

 

[FalloutJack]

Fighting isn't dead. Tactics are dead.

 

[NitehawkFury]

Fighting isn't dead. Tactics are dead.

I'm not sure if they're dead, but their heart rate has been failing as they've sat on life support for the past decade.

 

[Lullabye]

*snip*

well your problem is that you playing mortal Kombat. I prefer Tekken over most other fighting games. I mean, I ;like the spectacle of the fight as much as the next guy but its not fighting if your just flying around shooting bombs and lasers and stuff.
Personally I never minded spamming too much. I mean, its literally the easiest thing to get around in a game. As soon as you find a weakness, they're screwed.
I like matches where you both pull off amazing moves and comobo's, but in an appropriate non spammy way. Basically I like it when you have an actual match using all the character you chose has to offer.

 

[FalloutJack]

Fighting isn't dead. Tactics are dead.

I'm not sure if they're dead, but their heart rate has been failing as they've sat on life support for the past decade.

Well, what I mean is that it's not so much the games themselves as...the people. They COULD be used dynamically, but human beings are all about the path of least resistance. So, the use of tactics is what's failing here.

 

[Oly J]

I've been saying for quite a while that I think fighting games need retooling, I'd play something like Mortal Kombat or Dragonball Raging Blast or MvC3 online and it's always the same, stun-lockers and spammers everywhere you look, they really should make a fighting game where that isn't possible or at least give us a way to counter it...I'm sure a fair few games like that exist but I don't know them

 

[AugustFall]

So... where's the disrespect? If they're keeping you at a distance, it sounds like they're doing well enough and you're not happy about it.

Argue this with most any somewhat serious people and they'll tell you it's called zoning. Unless the character can negate projectiles and rush at you (Jade - UMK3), they're doing something right. Because not only are they chipping your health, they're running down the clock which will cause you to do something risky and if they're on top of it, you'll get punished. It's a legitimate tactic, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's disrespectful/dishonorable. Get off your high horse and either find people who want to share the stick up your ass or don't play.

As said a thousand times before. This isn't fun. They are doing this so that way they can win. There is no stragety in doing the same thing over and over again. There is no skill either. And to me quite frankly, the Reptile acid trick is disrespectful because its like htting an enemy behind their back. There is no honor in beating the weak. If someone cannot fight back, they are weak period.

As said a thousand times before, this isn't how I play with my friends at home. We actually fight each other. They pound out there Jade combos and I pound out my combos. Hearts racing, anticipation, as each other's health chunks down low. Good timining, finishing X ray move.

Throwing fireballs or acid balls is not fighting. It isn't the way a fighting game should be played either. Its a cheap, disrespectful tactic.

The people online are not your friends. They just want to win. Every game ever has those players. The SCV rush in Starcraft, the Noob-tube in COD. A good player can beat it.
If you want to have fun then play with your friends.

 

[Dream_Sequencer]

*snip*

well your problem is that you playing mortal Kombat. I prefer Tekken over most other fighting games. I mean, I ;like the spectacle of the fight as much as the next guy but its not fighting if your just flying around shooting bombs and lasers and stuff.
Personally I never minded spamming too much. I mean, its literally the easiest thing to get around in a game. As soon as you find a weakness, they're screwed.
I like matches where you both pull off amazing moves and comobo's, but in an appropriate non spammy way. Basically I like it when you have an actual match using all the character you chose has to offer.

Tekken is a great game. I play Tekken 6 online and its a lot easier to counter the spammers, if you know your characters.

I can't remember, but someone put a video on here recently I think Snooty or Snoopy or some guy like that Spoony video. And he was talking about how the Xbox 360 controller wasn't made for Mortal Kombat and I slightly have to agree.

I mean compare a PS controller over a Xbox controller. The D Pad for the Xbox is jammed together, you have to roll the D Pad.

Where as the PS controller has always had a seperate D Pad for the arrows.

Sure, in MK they are counters to the spammers. But when I'm playing on a controller that sometimes feels very unresponsive at times, sometimes it feels a little cheap when someone is purposely throwing a projectile.

They are being rewarded for fighting cheaply.

And a person who knows the character, who knows how to use the character, put time into a character is mocked or humilated because they aren't doing everything in their power to win.

Yes, the online character I use has a projectile attack. But for the most part Baraka is a an upclose, combat play character. He doesn't teleport, he doesn't have an ultimate projectile attack. I'm not a distance player.

And I do have counters for the cheapos.

As said:

-If someone is jumping around up and down. I use Barak's two hit combo kick to counter it.

-If someone is throwing projectiles, I tend to go the cheapo way and choose someone like Kitana to throw fans and fly above them.

-If someone is teleporting I sweep them.

I always seem to be able to win one round by countering their cheap moves. But they tend to really pound out because they don't want to loose. Going even more and more cheap so that way I'm jammed.

In Tekken 6, my stragety use to be wait till the person comes to me. Lure them. Make them come to me.

In MK I can't really do that when the very counter for the Lure is a projectile. But I am not a going to pound in your skull kind of guy who comes charging in either, that's how you make mistakes and those are usually the people who follow the Lure.

Now, I have come up with a new technique which is be as cheap as you are. And I get no satisafication out of that. Its not a good fight. Its not a I see combos I haven't seen before, a fatality I haven't seen before, making a friend with someone because of how well they know their character.

I think I met only one person, whom I was generally having fun with. We danced with our characters, played with the block. Glitched the characters stances. He showed me some Babalities, baby Barak is a adorable btw, and some fatalities. We fought each other like normal people, not throwing projectiles.

One person out of the twenty or something matches I played before.