Is game of thrones a bit shit?

[Innocent Flower]

So I've been watching the fifth season, and I need to know if I'm too biased because of being a book reader, or if non book readers would agree with me too.

Firstly, I'd like to apologise for my poor english/grammar. Secondly, I'd like to point out there are spoilers from this point on, but I've tried to keep them vague.

Game of thrones is dumb. It's rated fantasticaly and far too many people are raving about it... and yet it is dumb. (the books, in contrast, do far fewer dumb things) from the top of my head:

Spoiler

Adding simple cliche's (I've got this one key to this vault filled with all the treasure...)
Logic unfriendly costume design (poor lanister soldiers in plate armour, uniform-like wildlings etc.)
Many massively coincidental meetings. (Why is brienne meeting everyone?)
really, really dumb character descisions. Pointing primarily to dany (who is somehow praised for her imbecility) , but Arya fairs far worse here than she does in the books.
-That one rape scene.
The inconsistency of arya. In the first episode, she's a master archer. Later in the series, she's a total novice. In the first series she learns acrobatics, stealth and swordplay from syrio... and forgets most of it immediately, to fuck up later. She also entirely fucks up her three names for jaquen (it was more reasonable in the books, where she wasn't the cupbearer of important names)
-people revealing their master plans.
-Jon snow sidequests. Now.Now including special-ops Jamie lanister and Bron.
-Littlefinger. Written and acted poorly.
-Random whores.

and, for book readers:
- magic in the tv series is overt and obvious. In the books it's subtle. In the tv series I just want to slap brienne. 'nah girl, don't tell him it was a shadow, tell him it was a smoke monster brought fourth by foul sorcery, There's a witch with stanis. They'll believe it.' (plus, shouldn't the warlocks have infinite power or something, how'd they fail to kill someone with that kind of magic?)
-The weird skipping over characters and storylines (which is now replayed in additional superfluous ones that the writers added in to slow down the series)
-all those missing flashback
-all that warging stuff. where's it gone?
-The removal of the fabulous (but not unrealistic) outfits of people in essos. be it that one boob dress in quarth, the wonderful colours of the bravosi and pentoshi
-Removal of riverrun
-Brienne meeting everyone.
- The lack of flashbacks
-Arya should be an artful badass. Yes, the tv version has arya do some severe things... but she's nowhere near the level of book arya. (also, if I'm not mistaken in mentioning it; arya is supposed to be a girl who begins plain and then succeeds in puberty monumentally. I sadly don't see it happening with this actor) I'm aware that book arya might be seen as some kind of psychotic mary sue, but she was damn great to read about.
- Kindly man has a familiar face. what the fuck?
- Rob's alternative wife. there are differences here that might be important.
-
- The darker side of tyrion. I like TV tyrion, but the problem is here is that he's too likeable. It's hard to see how anyone would think of him as a monster. It's not just down to the fact that peter dinklage makes dwarves sexy, it's more down to the lack of his lamentation (and when he does lament, it's open and really too lightly done, even if on heavy topic)
-Why did that important character die in s5e5 I can forgive reed, but what the fuck!
-Where the hell is strong belwas (the greatest character ever). I know he's not important to the plot, but he is important to all of humanity.

Things I'l give the series credit for:
Varys is spot on. Brienne is quite tolerable. Joffery was excellently played. Darvos is pretty accurate. I'l also give the series points for skipping over something I didn't like in the books... nah, I probably won't. Most of that struck me as being likely to be well done if they were converted. But I can kinda understand skipping over the battle of the blackwater for budget reasons.

 

[Queen Michael]

You forgot to use the [/spoiler] tag, mate.

 

[Fox12]

Are we just talking about the show, or the entire thing? Personally, I face palmed after the first book. The first novel was legitimately well paced throughout, and the endings were brilliant. Every single character arc and story thread ended perfectly, and made you hunger for more. I couldn't wait to see what happened next, and the character interactions were great. It felt like the author knew exactly where his story was headed, and I knew the sequels were bound to build upon the original in exciting and new ways. Boy, was I wrong. I don't know if I've ever been more let down by a series. It just meandered on with no direction, and the pacing is some of the worst I've ever seen. Still, I got over the disappointment, and decided I was a little hard on the series. It's still good, just not a masterpiece. It's certainly not Tolkien.

Thankfully I discovered Berserk, which was everything I could ever want and more. Go read it.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Personally, while I like the show, it feels like it's flying by at a break-neck speed in season 5. I mean, season 3 and 4 basically covered a single large book, but apparently season five will cover two large books and then some. Even cutting out massive sections of the book, a lot of it seems to fly by at an uncomfortable pace. The whole business with the Sparrows seemed to be introduced, hastily explained then they turn into zealots at a frightening pace, whereas in the books it was much more gradual. And I didn't expect them to keep the entirety of Tyrion's journey to Volantis, but travelling pretty much the entire continent off screen?

It's rather funny how the last two books managed to be far too drawn out, while the show is far too quick.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I read the books long before the series (which I've not watched beyond a portion of the first episode) and quit after about the 3rd or 4th. I've felt honestly that GRRM is poor writer. His books are over-filled with details and not the way Tolkein used to write. A lot of things are extraneous, and so many characters that are actually well written just get killed off seemingly for the sake of killing them off. Death of a character becomes less and less important when it happens so often. I get the idea that its the world of Westeros and thats the way of life for those people, but if I stop caring about characters because I'm reasonably sure (and usually right) that they're going to be killed off, then whats the point? I lost interest because a lot of the extra material (namely the sexual content) seems juvenile and unnecessary. Its not "mature" to have what is, again IMO, the equivalent of romance novel sex scenes constantly written in.
Tracey Hickman, half of the duo who wrote the Dragonlance series, had a wonderful view on sex in novels and I've got to paraphrase it because I don't remember the wording and I'm being lazy in not googling it:
He called it the "Boot Scene" which he lifted from the Star Trek TOS TV Shows. You'd see Kirk and some alien chick getting ready to do their thing, and then the scene would fade to Kirk putting on his boots. The audience (unless they're unaware of what sex is or completely clueless) knows what happened and the story moves on. Its unnecessary for the most part, except for scenes where it moves the plot forward.
I've not watched the show because I just couldn't bear to go through more of that "mature" crap. Grimdark and sex does not equal maturity, and I really feel GoT is basically murder-porn mixed with late night softcore porn, and it just isn't my bag, baby.
However, if other people enjoy it, then they're free to do so and my opinion doesn't really matter. At least its better than Twilight.

 

[babinro]

I've made it through season 3 and I've got to say the show is overrated in my opinion.

- Only a handful of characters are interesting
- There's too many characters to follow so it's easy to get lost without repeated viewings
- There's far too much senseless nudity for shock value and cheap thrills
- The fantasy elements sometimes go to far (Kind of like how Lost was great when it was kept simple). You don't need things like a shadow monster that can assassinate people to make Game of Thrones interesting.

Don't get me wrong, Game of Thrones is very good and easily recommended but I don't feel it remotely lives up to the hype surrounding it. It's not on the level of something like Breaking Bad for example.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Thankfully I discovered Berserk, which was everything I could ever want and more. Go read it.

How did you find it? Google "writers who are as slow to release as George R. R. Martin?" Don't get me wrong: the manga is brilliant. but come on, Kentarou-san... write a chapter every now and then.

 

[RedDeadFred]

It's pretty good, though, this season has definitely been the weakest IMO. I actually like that they deviate from the books so much. I like not knowing what is going to happen next. Having said that:

Spoiler

Holy fuck did they butcher the "kill the boy" scene in the show. They also managed to kill off one of the most awesome characters from the book in such unceremonious fashion. Then, Danny goes and pulls a Mad King Aerys and forced Hizdar to merry her! WTF?! How do you fuck up that much in one episode?!

Suffice to say, the most recent episode was the worst so far for me.

They also fucked up Jon's most badass scene from the books. When he's about to hang a certain character, he initially was going to hang him. The character makes a huge fuss and eventually Jon stops and says something along the lines of "stop, this is wrong." The character thinks Jon is letting him go. Then, "Ed, bring me the block." YES! They skipped over that exchange on the show.

 

[Auberon]

I think I know that "most badass scene", and the Mannis barely nods his approval. Apparent dropping of whole Quentyn subplot and recap of latest episode... it either seriously mumbles any book continuity or I didn't lay out the concurrent plots when I read ADWD couple years back.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

I never got the nudity complaint about things. It's HBO, they're one of the few networks who can flaunt that shit all day. I'd rather them hold no punches when it comes to nudity if they're showing some downright brutal killings.

My issue with the sex scenes is that while some of them do offer useful exposition, many of them are completely inconsequential and could be cut completely without missing anything. At first, they were quite nice; having a well written fantasy story with a bit of fan service here and there seemed like a nice thing. As the seasons went on, however, I've began to grow tired of them.
With approximately one season per year, there will be quite a wait, and I can assure you it's not the nudity I'm waiting for since I can simply google "tits" and get pretty much the same thing.

I'm not sure why this always seems to happen with movie/TV adaptations. They'll take a long book, cut half of it out and condense the rest, then pad the story with extra romance sub plots and/or sex scenes. They did it with LoTR (putting far too much focus on Arwen) and now they're doing it with ASoIAF.

I would much rather they simply replaced the sex scenes with something more substantial and relevant.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Not read the books. I have seen trailers of the tv show but nothing ive seen makes me want to watch it.

 

[BakedSardine]

I've only read the first book, so I'm mainly a fan of the show. I found the first 4 episodes of season 5 to be some of the worst, but I thought the most recent episode was back on track and hopefully it will remain so the rest of the season.

As far as the show in totality, I agree that there is a lot going on, but it does a great job of tying up varying plots and not leaving too many open. Also, unlike other shows, and credit to Martin for writing it this way, the show just grinds though great characters and is not afraid to kill them off. I can't think of another show where a character as important as Eddard Stark, who was the main focus of Season 1, was then killed off that same season - it just doesn't happen. Same with Oberyn Martell - a great character, then quickly killed off the same season.

Readers of the books will always be able to critique, but it's one of the better shows of the past 10 years.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It's decent TV by TV standards. By quality TV standards (IE Sopranos, Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc) it's more than a "bit shit". Like The Walking Dead before it, it's one of the absolute worst "good shows" on television.

Almost every problem in it stems from one of two sources...

1. Pacing. Trying to cram too much story into too little air time. This was always going to be an issue (the novels are fundamentally unfilmable as they are), and a lot of world building, context and depth was lost in the translation. However, the showrunners bungle the pacing in ways that aren't necessary, lacing the show with meandering/crap subplots and introducing new characters that go nowhere. Which leads us to...

2. The showrunners cannot write their way out of a paper bag. Their manipulations/changes to canon are, virtually without exception, stunningly amateurish. Their characterizations are shallow and anachronistic, their dialogue is clunky, they write in constant contradictions and plot holes that confuse show watchers and enrage book readers. Often for absolutely no reason beyond "they think it's neat" and apparently it's "fun" when you don't know what's going to happen, even if what happens is utterly worthless.

Mediocre show that will get rapidly, RAPIDLY worse as they run out of book material. Unwatchable worse.

 

[ninja51]

Game of Thrones is the best show on television and the only book series I cared enough to pull multiple all nighters to read through. Its truly majestic

 

[DEAD34345]

It's decent TV by TV standards. By quality TV standards (IE Sopranos, Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc) it's more than a "bit shit". Like The Walking Dead before it, it's one of the absolute worst "good shows" on television.

Almost every problem in it stems from one of two sources...

1. Pacing. Trying to cram too much story into too little air time. This was always going to be an issue (the novels are fundamentally unfilmable as they are), and a lot of world building, context and depth was lost in the translation. However, the showrunners bungle the pacing in ways that aren't necessary, lacing the show with meandering/crap subplots and introducing new characters that go nowhere. Which leads us to...

2. The showrunners cannot write their way out of a paper bag. Their manipulations/changes to canon are, virtually without exception, stunningly amateurish. Their characterizations are shallow and anachronistic, their dialogue is clunky, they write in constant contradictions and plot holes that confuse show watchers and enrage book readers. Often for absolutely no reason beyond "they think it's neat" and apparently it's "fun" when you don't know what's going to happen, even if what happens is utterly worthless.

Mediocre show that will get rapidly, RAPIDLY worse as they run out of book material. Unwatchable worse.

This sums up my view pretty much perfectly, better than I could have wrote it myself. It's sad really, when the show follows the book it's often really good, but every time it deviates it seems to become the most generic, contrived fantasy nonsense I've ever forced myself to suffer through. Since they're deviating more and more often now, the show is getting worse at a breakneck speed. The first few episodes of this season were so crap that I just lost the will to keep watching.

Spoiler

I think the most laughably hilarious part is the shoehorned in romance sub-plot with a eunuch. I mean come on...

The most depressingly terrible part on the other hand was Jon Snow's random and totally pointless excursion to kill Evil McVillain beyond the wall. Saturday morning cartoon villains have more depth than that guy did. He's just conjured out of thin air, all he does is be extremely evil for no reason, to the point that he literally drinks out of Mormont's skull in his only scene... Then he is killed and everyone goes home to immediately forget about him again. Why was this necessary? Why?

 

[gigastar]

Well if you dont tell us what you expected from the series in the first place, i cant really tell you why this series doesnt have what youre looking for.

A Song of Ice and Fire is about the deconstruction of fantasy tropes. I could talk about specific examples, but instead im just going to link this page [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DeconstructedTrope/ASongOfIceAndFire] so you can see just how far reaching the trope deconstruction is.

About the TV series specifically... well just drop that bomb before it goes off in your face.

Thankfully I discovered Berserk, which was everything I could ever want and more. Go read it.

How did you find it? Google "writers who are as slow to release as George R. R. Martin?" Don't get me wrong: the manga is brilliant. but come on, Kentarou-san... write a chapter every now and then.

Just checking, you are aware that hes gone completely blind in one eye and simply cannot produce the high quality art he used to be capable of on his own anymore, right?

Hell, im surprised he didnt simply retire because of that.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Why was this necessary? Why?

Because it's EXCITING!

Agreed by the way, although the two biggest trespasses of the show to date for me are "Talissa" and the complete white-washing of Tyrion.

Mind you, Season 5 should surpass that in pretty short order at the rate it's going to shit.

 

[Ishal]

Why was this necessary? Why?

Because it's EXCITING!

Agreed by the way, although the two biggest trespasses of the show to date for me are "Talissa" and the complete white-washing of Tyrion.

Mind you, Season 5 should surpass that in pretty short order at the rate it's going to shit.

You're referring to whats his face? Carl? Karl? He was a FOOKIN' legend in Gin Alley??!?!

See, my memory of Jon Snow's arc from the books is a bit hazy. It's pretty standard hero's journey stuff, right? At least when compared to the other plots going on at the time. So, when I first watched that part, it made sense. Alright, give Jon Snow something to do and a bad guy to fight.

It was still horribly cringe worthy. Not only that, but the fight. Granted, this is entertainment, and I don't exactly expect them to study HEMA techniques to a T. This is a TV show. But c'mon, they made Karl the stereotypical rogue from any generic fantasy game. Two daggers fighting someone with a sword? And Jon swings it like that? You don't hack and slash with a sword you cut and thrust, small fast movements. Jon wouldn't need to swing his sword like a baseball bat, he just needs to thrust repeatedly maybe with some cuts and 2-4 strokes Karl would be maimed or dying.

Not only that, but even as Karl is portrayed they get it wrong. How many of his foes ever saw him coming? The classic dagger man didn't make a living by getting into fair fights.