Is gaming REALLY A text?

[Keava]

To be blunt, your teacher should revise her views on cultural progress and stop considering only things of past as culturally worth-while. Its a common problem in perception, affecting not only education.

BioShock indeed has elements of Gothic novel, in big part because steam-punk convention is based on Victorian Gothic fiction. You have monumental ruins, you have mystery, insanity, murder, death, traps, contrasts that all were apparent in Gothic literature.
Now as for a game being a text. The fact it is interactive doesn't change that a game, with clearly presented plot is a text. The only issues one could have is with purely sandbox games where a player from start to end builds the story with just basic background provided. You could easily rewrite your whole gameplay in games like Bioshock into a novel.

 

[SamFancyPants252]

It's not a text. There's no interpretation to be had of the descriptions, it's all shown to you, especially with the current graphics. So that's why I don't think it's really allowed.

SO what is the difference between that and a film? Surely films are spoon fed to you too?

Yeah, and I'd say a film is not a text either. That was kind of my point.

Well, we study films as texts at my school.

I really want to know in what way OP thinks Bioshock is Gothic horror.

well so far in class we've gone over 'gothic elements' which are in all gothic texts and are:
subterranean space, decay, dwarfing of man, liminal space (blurring the lines between things such as light and dark, good and bad etc) Ambiguity, Social anxieties, Supernatural events, Suspenseful atmosphere, confronting, disturbing themes and being trapped or controlled.

I would really only consider the bolded text Gothic horror. Perhaps your teacher is branching it out more to make it easier for students?

well she did do the unit in Uni and chose to teach it in HS so i don't know, but as long as I get a good grade I don't really care if it's culturally accepted as gothic or not. The handout says it has to discuss what's been taught in class and that's what I plan on doing.
If I succeed, I get a good mark. If she's stubborn on our views, I don't but I get a hell of a good reason to complain to the english department on "Gaming IS a text!"

Eh, Win win. I guess. Though, Gothic culture today paints a pretty clear picture of what a lot of people think Gothic is, Maybe I need to study it a bit.

mate, like anything English based "it's open to interpretation"
Suppose I'll have to wait and see if my teacher agrees, eh?

 

[Rhymenoceros]

Ask her if movies are allowed. If they are then ask why Video Games aren't?

Movies should be allowed, we are study one now in class.

Well to be honest that was kind of a rhetotical question. I have studied a movie in class before. Sorry it wasn't obvious that was rhetorical.

 

[SamFancyPants252]

To be blunt, your teacher should revise her views on cultural progress and stop considering only things of past as culturally worth-while. Its a common problem in perception, affecting not only education.

BioShock indeed has elements of Gothic novel, in big part because steam-punk convention is based on Victorian Gothic fiction. You have monumental ruins, you have mystery, insanity, murder, death, traps, contrasts that all were apparent in Gothic literature.
Now as for a game being a text. The fact it is interactive doesn't change that a game, with clearly presented plot is a text. The only issues one could have is with purely sandbox games where a player from start to end builds the story with just basic background provided. You could easily rewrite your whole gameplay in games like Bioshock into a novel.

If I complain, may I use your comment to help present my argument?

 

[Kukakkau]

Honestly doing a game for English seems like a bad idea. The reason you can do movies and books etc is because they are set scrips/text wheras games have story > gameplay > story and repeat. It's really a good idea to use a text/film that said teacher knows is good for such an essay, even if you hate it.

I'd say a game would not count as a text in the context of your question. If you have to use quotes from certain parts of the text like we did in my school I don't see how you can use a game like that. "At the part where I walked into the office and killed an enemy, I noticed the gothic artwork on the walls."

Stick to a novel if you can they're the most simple for essays. Also if this exam is tomorrow and he doesn't count Bioshock as text - you're screwed with no fallback.

 

[Keava]

If I complain, may I use your comment to help present my argument?

You are free to do so ^^. After all games and movies alike start with a sort of script that provides a basis for the whole plot idea. Hell, back in my school days some teachers understood that there were obligatory lectures that were just so plainly boring we just watched movies based on them to discuss the basics of literature genre of the book.

(...)I'd say a game would not count as a text in the context of your question. If you have to use quotes from certain parts of the text like we did in my school I don't see how you can use a game like that. "At the part where I walked into the office and killed an enemy, I noticed the gothic artwork on the walls."
(...)

Gothic literature is not about gothic artworks on the walls. Edgar Alan Poe's works, Dr Jekyl Mr Hyde, Stokers Dracula, Lovecraft, Ann Rice, Phantom of the Opera are all considered gothic fiction. Essay based on plot of game would be no harder to write than one based on book, the plot is there, the characters are there, the atmosphere is there, only the action gameplay is made interactive and given more focus for the pace and entertainment values.

 

[Xanadu84]

Video games are just as valid of an art form as books, movies, etc. They are also just as worthy of critique and analysis. However, they also not books, plain and simple. If a teacher assigned you to read a book, and you watched the movie instead, you couldn't use, "Movies are valid culture" as an excuse, because that just wasn't the assignment. If you had to watch a movie, and you for some reason read the novelization instead, same deal. I think that the teacher has the final say on this. Of course, perhaps the teacher is willing to change the assignment, and a study of Gothic Horror is more important to her then a study of books. In which case excellent, and you have a ton of ammunition to convince her that Bioshock is worth studying. I would mentally prepare a brief overview of the plot to explain to her what Bioshock is about, and make sure you go heavy on the references to Atlas Shrugged, Objectivism, and the shortcomings of Rational self-interest. I also think that though ambitious, you jumped the gun a little here.

 

[Aesthetical Quietus]

I really fail to see how Bioshock is gothic, it's an objectivist dystopian fiction. Maybe my definition of gothic is somehow different.

But more to the point, if movies are allowed, games are probably too (by extension). Although a text does imply a written medium, like a book or a screenplay.

Thusly leading to different interpretations of the text? Yay, even more proof to allow it in!

Also, I would imagine the problem your teacher is having is that she does not know more about the game. Thus, she does not realise that it's basically an interactive movie. [Remember that most people get their interpretations of games from the media, which only really display the really debatable stuff, such as GTA IV, or MW2. I love those games, but the stories would be hard to port into a book, or movie. Oblivion is far, far easier to port, and would make an equal amount of sense].


So to sum, yes, I would say that depending on the game, it is a text. Something like Oblivion, where you have a linear plot, with lots of details in, then yes. Something like Modern Warfare 2, where you have next to no plot, or GTA IV, with plot rather haphazard, then no. [GTA IV would make a wonderful book, and has quite a lot of recurring and underlying themes, but would be hard to put into a book AND maintain it's integrity].

 

[Danny Ocean]

I'm doing an exam tomorrow for English (I'm doing a gothic horror unit) and I have to argue that *text a* has gothic conventions. Being me I went out of the ordinary and chose Bioshock, and of course it is very gothic and I know I can argue very well that it is...however, my teacher wasn't so sure and says that she doesn't think it's a text and my whole thing is therefore invalid.
So if I can successfully convince the marker that A) games are texts and B) Bioshock is gothic, I've done well, right?
What do you think?

It's not a text because there is no room for interpretation.

You could perhaps use it as a politics/economics/historical allegory, but probably not English.

However there is a story, there are well-thought out characters, and Steam Punk does draw on Gothic roots. It all depends on how well you know the story and characters of Rapture, and how you can relate those to other examples.

It's been a while since I studied English like that though, so take it with some salt.

I'd stick with a set text, but take it from a new angle. That's what I did with my English GCSE, and I got an A and an A*. But it depends on how good you are at seeing things from a different angle, and finding justification for your points.

I didn't actually revise for my English GCSE, I just used the interpretative questions and a bit of own knowledge. The key thing was that I made up my interpretation on the spot, and didn't use one of the ones taught to us. Again, however, that depends on how good you are.

 

[Me55enger]

So if I can successfully convince the marker that A) games are texts and B) Bioshock is gothic, I've done well, right?
What do you think?

I think you are completely right in that games are a valid media text.

I have both a Media and English exam coming up, and 1/3rd of the Media one is on Games

Using Bioshock is both an advantage and disadvantage. If you pull off a damn good essay, the marker will love you. Its creative, original and you have me impressed.

But its highly unlikely the marker has heard of the game. So id recommend referring to it as a text more than a game. and don't bog the essay down with too much context.

Tell me what grade you get in August, im interested in what you get.

 

[The Maddest March Hare]

I would happily argue the point that if a movie is considered a text, then games can count too as they are just another, more interactive story telling medium that could actually increase immersion and, therefore, the experience. Great for adding an extra dimension so a slow essay.

However, I would really not have classed Bioshock as gothic in any shape or form. Steampunk horror slash thriller is a separate genre, unless the definition of gothic has changed drastically since I did my English A levels last year..

 

[Legendsmith]

Ask her if movies are okay.
As soon as he says yes, cut off the gameplay from Bioshock. Voi-la.

^this.
Also, I'm not sure B'Shock is horror, there ARE horror games out there, but B'shock ain't one of them. However games are texts. A lot have storyline, visual elements like a movie, audio and music elements like a movie.

 

[EboMan7x]

Games are as valid an artform as any, but no its not a text. She probably wouldn't let you choose a movie either, but if she did then your fine.

 

[Treefingers]

Of course Bioshock counts as a text. A text is anything that translates or mediates some kind message.

Some games wouldn't, like uhhh Pac Man or Tetris. But only because those games don't have enough to them. Multiplayer games (or modes of) like MW2 or Halo or something probably wouldn't count either... not in a bad way, but because they function more like a competitive sport than say, film or literature. They are about winning.

On the other hand, you don't really play Bioshock to 'win'. You play it to unfold the story and experience the world.

 

[Treefingers]

Games are as valid an artform as any, but no its not a text. She probably wouldn't let you choose a movie either, but if she did then your fine.

It's not a text. There's no interpretation to be had of the descriptions, it's all shown to you, especially with the current graphics. So that's why I don't think it's really allowed.

It's not a text because there is no room for interpretation.

So basically you guys don't understand the definition of "text" from the point of view of English/Literary theory. With this definition, text doesn't mean written.It's anything that carries enough symbolism/meaning/information that you can critically analyse.

Films are texts. That's why you can take Film Studies at university.

And of course there is room for interpretation. There is as much room for interpretation in Bioshock as there is in any number of films or books.

 

[General Ken8]

I don't see why not, the game is very reliant on story, and is dark and creepy most of the time.
In your position, I probably would've thought the same thing

 

[AngryMongoose]

It's as legitimate as film, however, I don't consider film to be legitimate as text. A film script yes, but the film itself no. Same reasoning for games. If you use the games script, then that should be acceptable, but the game as a whole, the design and architecture, the gameplay ect, shouldn't. I haven't played it, but i'm not sure how much gothic influence is in the Bioshock script.

 

[Shuvy]

it is a text- it has a story. whether or not it is a good text is a hard question. your in institutionalized education, and ultimatly it's up to the marker to decide whats right and what isn't . and chances are that marker is significantly older than you and their interest in englishs far otweighs theirknowledge of good ggaming scripts. i wouldenet o it

 

[Daveman]

Games are as valid an artform as any, but no its not a text. She probably wouldn't let you choose a movie either, but if she did then your fine.

It's not a text. There's no interpretation to be had of the descriptions, it's all shown to you, especially with the current graphics. So that's why I don't think it's really allowed.

It's not a text because there is no room for interpretation.

So basically you guys don't understand the definition of "text" from the point of view of English/Literary theory. With this definition, text doesn't mean written.It's anything that carries enough symbolism/meaning/information that you can critically analyse.

Films are texts. That's why you can take Film Studies at university.

And of course there is room for interpretation. There is as much room for interpretation in Bioshock as there is in any number of films or books.

Well frankly... screw that definition. English literary theory can say what it likes, I won't accept Films or Games as texts.

However, are plays also texts by your definition then too? Just wondering, I'm guessing they are.

 

[Treefingers]

Games are as valid an artform as any, but no its not a text. She probably wouldn't let you choose a movie either, but if she did then your fine.

It's not a text. There's no interpretation to be had of the descriptions, it's all shown to you, especially with the current graphics. So that's why I don't think it's really allowed.

It's not a text because there is no room for interpretation.

So basically you guys don't understand the definition of "text" from the point of view of English/Literary theory. With this definition, text doesn't mean written.It's anything that carries enough symbolism/meaning/information that you can critically analyse.

Films are texts. That's why you can take Film Studies at university.

And of course there is room for interpretation. There is as much room for interpretation in Bioshock as there is in any number of films or books.

Well frankly... screw that definition. English literary theory can say what it likes, I won't accept Films or Games as texts.

However, are plays also texts by your definition then too? Just wondering, I'm guessing they are.

Ok, well that's just ignorance on your part.

And yes, of course plays are texts. Shakespeare and Wilde come to mind. You have to agree there? Seriously, just try and argue that Hamlet isn't a text.