Is impossibility possible?

Saul B

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I was thinking about this the other day and in the end I'm not sure what I think.

Possibility and chance are very tricky subjects. Similar, but very different. Chance is the liklihood of a specific event happening, whereas possibility is if the event could happen, or not - its as simple as that. But chance can be measured as a percentage, decimal, fraction, ratio or proportion. Take for example, an everyday variable such as the weather. More specifically, rain. Rain is possible. We all know that. In fact there is a relatively high chance that it could rain tomorrow, around 20%. It is also possible there could be a hailstorm the size of footballs. This is very unlikely, but nonetheless possible.

Lets take the old tale of the 1000 typewrites and 1000 monkeys. A philosopher once said that if 1000 monkeys were given 1000 typewriters, they would, after a long period of time, come up with Shakespeare's Hamlet. (or thats how I think the story goes). This, you would think, would be impossible.

Its not. Just very, very, extremely unlikely. Lets take into account the figures. First off, lets assume that the monkeys have been trained to hit random keys on the typewriter, 24/7 without a break and that they type at a speed of 1 character per second. The play has approximately 30,000 words. Ignoring spacing, punctuation and capitals, there are 26 different keys the monkey could hit resulting in there being a 1 in 26 chance that the monkey hits the correct key each time. If you want, go and do the maths yourself. In simpler terms, it is unimaginably unlikely, but still possible.

If however, these monkeys were given an infinite timespan, then the event would definitely happen. Its the same with everything. On an infinite timescale, anything and everything is possible and will happen eventually, whereas on a finite timescale, anything can still happen, but it is just very unlikely.

Which brings me to my point. If anything is possible, this leaves us with a paradox. Anything being possible means that nothing is impossible which results in impossibility being impossible. Despite this, everything is possible resulting in impossibility being both possible and impossible. This could be because possibility is only an idea, though up by humans: it doesn't actually exist. I don't know.

If you have read this thread and have managed to understand, what are your thoughts?
 

.Warheart

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Yeah I think about anything that is possible in theory, no matter how low the chance, is possible.

OR, you could always ask Nike.
 

jaammiie

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I suppose the only thing to say is that there will never be a infinite time span.
 

Trivun

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Dec 13, 2008
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I do Maths so I'm pretty clear on the statistics of your monkeys. However, as for the rest of it, one of my flatmates does Philosophy and tried to explain it to me ages ago, among other philosophical ideas. Needless to say I had no clue what it was all about. So yeah, I don't understand. Nice explanation of the Hamlet thing though, very mathematically sound :)
 

avelmen1889

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yess and if the reality inside books existed the improbability drive from hitchiker's guide to the galaxy would actuatley creat an infinate timescale instaniousley happen
 

Saul B

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Kukul said:
I find it amusing how you western people are all like "Eureka!" when you figure out something I learned at school. Who teaches you math? Orangutans?
Umm I'm only 14 and I though it was kinda cool. Im sorry that this little morsel of my mortal thinkings was not worthy of you.
 

Maze1125

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Saul B said:
On an infinite timescale, anything and everything is possible and will happen eventually,
That's not true.
Provided the probability of the event decreases over time, you can have an event that is possible for all time but nevertheless isn't certain to happen.
 

SharPhoe

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Feb 28, 2009
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Saul B said:
Kukul said:
I find it amusing how you western people are all like "Eureka!" when you figure out something I learned at school. Who teaches you math? Orangutans?
Umm I'm only 14 and I though it was kinda cool. Im sorry that this little morsel of my mortal thinkings was not worthy of you.
Don't mind him. He's always like that.

Yes, nothing is truly impossible. Unless you get into really stupidly extreme stuff like George Carlin and Mitch Hedberg coming back from the dead and working together to cure all of the world's diseases. That would just be silly.
 

Cpt. Red

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Saul B said:
Lets take the old tale of the 1000 typewrites and 1000 monkeys. A philosopher once said that if 1000 monkeys were given 1000 typewriters, they would, after a long period of time, come up with Shakespeare's Hamlet. (or thats how I think the story goes). This, you would think, would be impossible.
No, I have never in my entire life seen that as impossible. And just so you know the correct mathematical term for the probability of this happening(if they are allowed to continue for ever) is almost surly.

Also your wrong with everything being possible. For example, what is the probability for something that cannot happen to happen? Well its zero of course. Even if you give it an infinite tries it simply will not happen as. Another example may be what is the possibility of something we know is true(without any doubts) to be false. This to is zero as well.

I hope you have gotten my point.
 

Jharry5

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That means that if the impossible is actually possible, then there's no such thing as impossible; meaning that the whole discussion is actually worthless.
...
Is that what you were meaning, or have I failed to get it? Maths and Philosophy are not strong points of mine.
 

Jurassic Rob

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This universe and everything we know, is split into opposites. Cause and Effect. Think of anything and it will have an opposite. Hot and cold, light and dark possible and impossible. It's a scientific fact, impossibility is clear. With regards to the chimp typewriter experiment, even if you could get 1000 monkeys and 1000 typewriter and you had an infinate amount of time, the point is moot. It could be one worm, and a typewriter, eventually it would happen to. That experiment is supposed to show people about infinity, not impossibility.
 

Yoshi-Pop

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In an infinite universe any attempt to define something for what it is or isn't, is just speculation based on random data. Chaos theory bitches.
 

Lios

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At the present time it is impossible for me to reach through the monitor and punch someone in the face, so yes, some things can be quite blatantly impossible.
 

Darth Mad

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I cannot breathe in space, it is impossible. Impossible is possible, but, thinking that something is impossible (the monkey story) while in fact its possible is, well, very possible.

we use the term improbable I belive in most of these situation
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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jaammiie said:
I suppose the only thing to say is that there will never be a infinite time span.
It's possible there is...

But anyway, if you have two perfectly opposite ideas, and one is proven to be true, then the other is usually impossible. For instance, we've proved that light bounces off objects into our eyes, so the really old Greek theory that our eyes produce light in the daytime is impossible.
 

acturisme

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Maze1125 said:
Saul B said:
On an infinite timescale, anything and everything is possible and will happen eventually,
That's not true.
Provided the probability of the event decreases over time, you can have an event that is possible for all time but nevertheless isn't certain to happen.
could you cite an example of such an event?
 

Dorian Cornelius Jasper

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Apr 8, 2008
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Kick reason to the curb and go beyond the impossible! That's the Gurren-Dan way.

Kukul said:
Saul B said:
I find it amusing how you western people are all like "Eureka!" when you figure out something I learned at school. Who teaches you math? Orangutans?
Or gibbons. They're good with imaginary numbers.

Saul B said:
Umm I'm only 14 and I though it was kinda cool. Im sorry that this little morsel of my mortal thinkings was not worthy of you.
Unfortunately the end of your original post, which asks if we've read it and "managed to understand," probably came off as a bit condescending. So when Kukul snarked back, it looked like fair game.

So! Philosophy. Interesting as a nugget to consider. But at least you didn't start a religion or politics topic. Kudos.

EDIT: Dropped the link after re-reading the OP.