Is Indoctrination Theory dead

[Da Orky Man]

Hey, everyone else is making EC threads, so why not me?

I'm guessing most of you clicking on this thread know what indoctrination theory is. If you don't, then exactly what rock on Mars have you been hiding under.
For the benefit of the Mars-dwelling rock-huggers amongst us, here's the video below:


I won't explain that further.

Anyway, is it dead? Given the endings presented to us in the Extended Cut DLC, it seems that Bioware have buried it six feet under. A lot of the little things that were previously put forward as proof have now been either retconned or explained in sufficient detail not to make sense, and since it now explains what happens after the Reaper War a lot more clearly, it seems this theory is gone for good.
However, there is still the little matter of how the Star Child's voice changes to what sounds suspiciously like Harbinger's if you choose to put a bullet between his eyes.

Anyway, what do you think?

 

[burningdragoon]

The Indoctrination Theory grew out of people being so dissatisfied with the original endings that they looked for something to make them feel better. So anyone who was satisfied with the Extended Cut will likely no longer care about it (I don't). Anyone who is still unhappy, is free to cling to it if they want, but it certainly not going to be confirmed for them any time soon.

As an example, one of the "points" I often saw for the IT, was that Shepard had an infinite ammo pistol during the end sequence. If people weren't so extremely disappointed with the original ending, do you think they would have even noticed or cared about that? I don't. Hell, even when I was interested in the theory, I thought that was a dumb point to offer.

 

[bluesession]

I belive that with endigs like this one I end up creating my "own" ending, in which the indoctrination happened.
Specially in this case where the main writer for the series took of a month after release (to go back to writing books) and someone completely new (not even the other project writers) wrote the ending.
As far as I care this game has no real ending, and the indoc theory is a great ci-fi ending even if is not great.

What happens in the new dlc cares me little. It's not very well written, it still have plot holes and it was made to fill the gaps of the original bad ending, which i dind't like for more reasons more than not being clear.

Adding a little more, maybe shep was indoctrinated, and he only could win by choosing destroy. Maybe the catalist was telling the truth, he needed something from shep to make the next evolutionary state (for the catalyst) but even if the ending happen I still think its all in shepards mind.

One last thing, some plotholes have been clarified with the dlc but there is still two mayor things I don't get (besides: "Why isn't my crew doing the last run with my and why are they retreating)
1. Whats with the dreams? This is new to ME3, its all about a kid shep saw 1 minute of his life and it seems to have some kind of simbolysm (that eludes me). Is he being indoctrinated? or is he just remembering the lost, why not remember Alenko or Ashley(or the xenophobe XO)?
2. In the last sequence, when shep shots anderson... why does he sudenly have a wound in the spot where Anderson was shot, why does he seem surprised? (if that wound was already there)

 

[Joseph Harrison]

I personally have my own theory about the indoctrination theory.

I believe that originally the Indoctrination theory was right but it was removed by Bioware at the last second because EA wanted them to appeal to a "broader audience" and if you hadn't played Mass Effect 1 or 2 you wouldn't know what indoctrination was. So they took the reveal that you were indoctrinated out but kept all the evidence in either because they were lazy or as a screw you to EA. When they were making the extended cut they took all the evidence out to avoid confusing people.

 

[WinstonJEC]

I would like to think that there is still hope for it, but I know there there isn't. I still believe after the destruction ending after shepard takes that breath, I would like to think that's him waking up from it. The biggest thing that bugged me though was while he was talking to the catalyst, they were just standing out in space. There was no glass around them so they were just breathing normally, which makes no sense. The ending was rushed and it makes it hard to go back and want to play the other two games which were amazing.

 

[everythingbeeps]

Nope. I'm gonna continue to believe that it was just an ambiguous ending that we can interpret as "indoctrination", because that's the only way the ending works. And yeah, it means that the story sort of remains incomplete, but it makes sense from Shep's perspective...if she's indoctrinated, she'll never see how things work out.

It's worked for movies, so why not video games?

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

It still makes more sense than the real ending. And it would be the most awesome twist in video game history, outshining even the plot twist of KoTOR. But yes, it is pretty much dead unfortunately.

 

[ThriKreen]

I find the whole thing amusing, especially since there are some factors that people seem to miss that destroys the whole theory.

Oh well, I'll just sit here and chuckle.

 

[fuzzlefluff]

I wouldn't say its dead, im still going to say that it is the real ending because I feel disatisfied with the EC endings

because I don't see how making the cut scene's longer and literally saying "and the galaxy rebuilt itself" makes anything better, could you not understand that from the original ending?

 

[Zhukov]

Yes, the indoctrination theory is dead.

That is to say, dead on account of being stillborn.

 

[anthony87]

It wasn't a "theory", it was a piece of fanfic that got waaaaaaaaaay out of hand. Not that it was a bad piece of fanfic mind you.

 

[Carboncrown]

It would've been so cool. Unprecedented.

But while it had a lot going for it, it sill had crippling flaws even before the EC.

It's representative of the whole EC, spelling out things there already was an aswer for.

The biggest thing that bugged me though was while he was talking to the catalyst, they were just standing out in space. There was no glass around them so they were just breathing normally, which makes no sense.

Things like this. It's like some people have never seen Normandy docking at the Citadel.

(Apologies if that sounded hateful... The EC just opened up wounds )

 

[bakan]

The indoctrination stuff was just being spread by people trying to make sense out of an abysmal ending, so in my opinion it was never relevant in the first place.
Bioware just did a bad job with the third part of the series and the ending was the icing on the cake.

 

[LetalisK]

Yes, it's dead. I still like it more than the endings we're being given, but it's dead.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

To be honest, I never really got why so many gave credence to the Indoctrination Theory. I've watched numerous videos and read a number of articles and ... the vast majority of arguments are pure conjecture. Some are plausible, but most are people grasping at straws left and right, presenting assumptions as facts and quite a bit of giving BioWare way too much credit.

I like the concept behind the Indoctrination Theory, but the way it is presented by the fandom, it is nowhere near watertight.

And as far as I know, BioWare has not corroborated any of it.

 

[subtlefuge]

I don't get why people thought that a shitty lack of ending was preferable to a shitty ending.

 

[Phlakes]

Yep.

But it was all reactionary, anyway. I guarantee I could find nearly equally convincing evidence that the Reapers were tacos.

 

[Mau95]

Does it really even matter at all?

 

[Vrach]

While I honestly never cared much for the subject, based on the brief few minutes I took out to check out the endings on YT, wouldn't the addition of the "no, fuck you" option to the ending (and the way it plays out) pretty much confirm the theory, rather than kill it?