is intelligent npc really a good thing?

[Juventus]

i am not talking about competent npc.

competent = not running into a wall and getting stuck there, or getting killed because it walked into the middle of 5 enemies.

intelligent is more that the npc is skilled to the point where it can complete objectives on it's own. for example in red alert 3 you are assigned a co-commander to help you on missions, and it's AI is not bad. in fact in some missions it completed the primary objectives on it's own which i thought was pretty neat......

..until i thought, well so much for accomplishments! while it was great that the npc could handle itself, at the same time it took away some the satisfaction you got from accomplishing your objectives from using your own skills.

so do you think intelligent npc is a good thing? and what games would it suit/or not suit?

EDIT: to make it clear i am talking about characters that are either your allies (ex: halo marines) or neutral (ex: a escort mission character) i am NOT talking about enemy ai

 

[DustyDrB]

I prefer a competent (in combat) friendly npc over an incompetent or merely mediocre one. How many times have we seen a character be hyped up as a total beast, only to have him being able to muster little more than a whimper when we actually have him fighting aside us?

 

[gigastar]

Intelligent NPC's? Doesnt that usually lead to [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard]...

 

[ZombieGenesis]

Intelligent NPC's? Doesnt that usually lead to [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard]...

I was thinking of Love Machine.
Muffins for reference.

 

[Zakarath]

Intelligent NPC's? Doesnt that usually lead to [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard]...

Actually, no; as that describes the situation where unintelligent NPCs are given hax instead of better AI.
(Already worked his way though that area of tvtropes, so has developed a bit of an immunity)

 

[Snowalker]

Idk, I think it depends on narrative. I mean, if you're not supposed to be a bad-ass (like in Metro 2033) and you fight alongside badasses, they should be as competent as you, or possible even better. However, if you're playing a game where you're supposed to be the end all be all (Like Halo) then the NPC's should most defiantly pale in comparison.

 

[EllEzDee]

So you mean the AI? Sometimes i'd love an intelligent AI in a game, but sometimes it's great to have an easily exploitable AI. Like in RTS games, it's great to be able to beat the AI by exploiting their stupidity when it comes to, for example in ETW, assaulting walls.
Of course, it usually subtracts from the experience, but whatever, i just hate it when the developers pretend they've got a fantastic AI system and then we realise that they've really only spent about 20 minutes fixing the AI up a little before release.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I think most games have it right. The only scenario I can remember where the game "played the game for me" was Grand Turismo 4, with the B-driver who can take over your position, you can train him up to run some races for you. As he also counted towards game completion on races that he aided you, I thought that was pretty neat, although I only used him on those ridiculous endurance races. I'm sure GT5 has it too.

But on the other hand, in more action-oriented games, sometimes it can get annoying if they start taking your kills and what not, I mean a human taking your kill is bad enough sometimes, but a machine, yeah would be annoying. I'm playing Bulletstorm atm, and I think they have it right, your "friends" pretty much just provide another target for the enemies to shoot at, while you do all the badass style-killing.

 

[Zakarath]

Although I've never encountered a game where the AI might play for you, I approve of intelligent AI. It much improves games when, for example, enemies try and flank you and allies actually push on enemy positions (unless they're suicidal about it; I'm looking at you, Oblivion.) rather than just having both sides choose some cover and take potshots at each other for eternity.

 

[Juventus]

So you mean the AI? Sometimes i'd love an intelligent AI in a game, but sometimes it's great to have an easily exploitable AI. Like in RTS games, it's great to be able to beat the AI by exploiting their stupidity when it comes to, for example in ETW, assaulting walls.
Of course, it usually subtracts from the experience, but whatever, i just hate it when the developers pretend they've got a fantastic AI system and then we realise that they've really only spent about 20 minutes fixing the AI up a little before release.

no, i mean characters that are either your allies (ex: halo marines) or neutral (ex: a escort mission character) i am not talking about enemy ai

 

[kidigus]

Maby one or two inteligent NPCs on your side in a COD style shooter, and a load compotant NPCs aswell.

Or in a multiplayer deathmatch game, some power-ups could involve releasing a certan number inteligent NPCs to fight for your team.

Perhaps even some boss-fights could feature a boss who's just as tough as a regular enemy, but who can solve problems better than your standard meatbag.

You could go almost anywhere with that kind of technology.

 

[likalaruku]

Yes in shooters, no in RPGs, because stupid NPCs are where I get most of my LOLs.

 

[Tibike77]

[...]for example in red alert 3 you are assigned a co-commander to help you on missions, and it's AI is not bad. in fact in some missions it completed the primary objectives on it's own which i thought was pretty neat......
..until i thought, well so much for accomplishments! while it was great that the npc could handle itself, at the same time it took away some the satisfaction you got from accomplishing your objectives from using your own skills.

Well, next game, try to just turtle up and DO NOTHING to help the computer player, see just how badly he gets beaten, or, if by some miracle he not only survives but also completes the mission, how long it took him to do so.

You don't consider yourself useless (or your accomplishments any less valuable) when your team wins a game of CS or whatever other FPS you're playing, do you ?
Just because your team-mate is a machine doesn't mean the team result is any less valuable.

 

[Titan Buttons]

Probably a place that actually need intelligent NPC's in Fable. As funny as it is to slay a villagers family and then make him like you by dancing for him, while funny, just doesn't seem right

Though I'm surprised the co-commander finished the mission in C&C:RA 3 for you, they where only ever competent for me.
Which mission was it?

 

[GrimHeaper]

I only think it's a good thing when it's on my side otherwise....
I don't want to fight a boss for one hour+ :/

 

[MikailCaboose]

No, intelligent npc's would ultimately lead to a game "playing itself".
Competence > Intelligence

 

[TrevHead]

I loved the fire fights in the FPS Fear, that game had some damn good team based AI. I havnt really thought about it much myself but I recently had an discussion about gaming AI elsewhere and another person made an point that many of todays FPS games have pritty crappy AI compared to classic PC FPS games. For example the soldier AI in Half Life 1 wasnt too bad in that because they cant shoot while moving, so the AI would give covering fire whist another outflanked you.

I suppose AI isnt that important for devs nowadays since most ppl play online co-op for that kind of expeience

 

[iblis666]

competent npcs get themselves killed as such it would be nice to have an intelligent npc that i could actually team up with instead of going solo all the time

 

[Juventus]

You don't consider yourself useless (or your accomplishments any less valuable) when your team wins a game of CS or whatever other FPS you're playing, do you ?
Just because your team-mate is a machine doesn't mean the team result is any less valuable.

good point. it was just so unexpected.

Though I'm surprised the co-commander finished the mission in C&C:RA 3 for you, they where only ever competent for me.
Which mission was it?

the soviet campaign where you have to fight the allies in iceland base, and another enemy which i won't spoil for those who didn't play it. it finished the allies on it own, although i did weaken them.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

I want NPCs that don't get stuck in the wall all the time, become oblivious to my presence and respawn instantly as I kill it until I get it away from the wall. It ruins the challenge of being on the most difficult setting, a little bit. I'm looking at you, Crysis 2.