Is it piracy if you already own the product you are pirating?

[Lunar Templar]

I'm going to say, no


if you bought the game and DRM is in the way of actually PLAYING the game, then yeah, go for it, i've been considering it for awhile now due to the GFWL fucking me out of saving on Arkham Asylum

 

[Spectrre]

I think torrenting it is illegal, because you're uploading to people who might not have a legal copy of the game. I'm not sure about the legality straight up downloading it, but it's morally defensible at the very least.

I would not upload it onto the internet. I don't even know how to do that. x_x

The only thing I would do would be to download.

Yeah but what he means is; If you were to download it via torrent you'd automatically upload it at the same time.

 

[SousukeSeg]

Why go so far as to pirate the entire game? if you already bought the copy, install it and download the crack to remove the DRM, plus you'll be saving space on your HDD and/or not have to burn an illegal dvd.

Admittedly that might not work if the game installs itself using a third party program like Steam. Like recently I got Darksiders and since I already needed to use Steam for install I said:"what the hell... at least Steam is decent DRM, unlike Ubisofts"

 

[Gatx]

I'm not sure if the situation is similar or if it's changed since, but wasn't there some kind of thing about roms of old console games? A lot of rom sites used to have a disclaimer that you could download and play the rom for a period of 24 hours, unless you had a copy of the game, in which case it would be legal for you to keep it.

 

[omicron1]

My policy is:
If I own a license to play the game, I will use it literally as such. I will play the game at any time I want, on whatever platform I want, forever. I owe the companies responsible nothing more than my initial outlay, and if I run into problems with their DRM (as has happened with two retail products, including the Settlers 7 (which Ubisoft deactivated my purchased copy of) and Trine (which I got for a present, tried to install it, and was met with an "invalid key" message) I've purchased so far), I will get around it. And if some freeloaders piggyback on me, so be it. I consider it the least of what the imbeciles owe me for the inconvenience of stealing my purchased product.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I'm in Washington state. Would you happen to know if cracks are illegal here?

Cracks are illegal in the US under the DMCA as a form of circumvention of copy protection.

 

[senordesol]

Ah... 'legality' and 'morality'.

This is not my thought (it's from Penny Arcade) but I think it still applies.

Paraphrase: "I'd make a shitty dictator because I can't fathom the concept of still 'owning' something someone has fairly purchased from me."

Morally, I say this: The devs got paid for their effort. Your moral obligation to them has been satisfied. You wanted to enjoy a piece of entertainment they created, they were paid for it, it's now yours to enjoy however you wish.

Morally (and I must stress the difference between that and legally), you should be able to enjoy it when and how you wish. Which means so long as you don't distribute it (e.g. selling or gifting), it is motherfucking YOURS.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Yes, it's another bloody piracy-related thread. Yay. Aren't you sick of these? >_<

But I am not here to try to debate ethics or the usual stuff that is talked about whenever this topic comes up. So don't talk about the general subject of piracy in this thread, because that will be off-topic. Rather... I have an opinion question to ask.

Lets say I were to buy/obtain a game legally, but because it has some seriously obnoxious DRM/spyware attached to it, I don't actually want to install the game onto my PC. Pirate copies of games get rid of the DRM, and so that would be exactly what I would be looking for. But I won't just simply pirate the game if I didn't own it, because that, to me, is unethical.

The question is this: Is it still piracy if I acquire a game legally, but then go to a torrent site and pirate that very game I now own?

Opinions and legitimate answers are appreciated. :3

- Rei

Note: Mods, if you don't like this thread feel free to close it. I'm just looking for an answer to one question.

According to US law, yes it is still piracy.

The reason is twofold:

First, according to US Code Title 17, sections 105-118 (Commonly known as the "Fair Use Doctrine") you may create a copy of something that you already own as an "archival copy". This means that you have to physically burn a copy of the game disk, torrenting does not fall under the provisions of Fair Use, even if you already own the game. (Burning a new game disk takes you into a gray area with the DMCA, but that's a totally different discussion)

The second deals more directly with your excuse for torrenting, the DRM. What we get into now is the sticky mess of proxy laws. When you purchase or accept the game, you accept everything that is in the game, including DRM. Your purchase or acceptance is a statement that says that you agree to the terms of service set forth by the publisher. The best analogy for it is climbing into a car driven by someone you know to have been drinking. By allowing him to drive you, you are agreeing to whatever risk that might pose, and also hold him harmless to the consequences should things go awry. That's exactly what's going on by purchasing a game.

The truth is that there is no legitimate reason to pirate. No matter how you spin it, it's still the same thing. I really suggest that you read up on things like the Home Recording Act of 1992, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and most importantly, US Code Title 17, section 107-118.

That's all well and good, but some time last year I was put in the situation of a company selling me a game with DRM, and then not providing me the required codes to actually get the game to install and work.
No amount of discussing this with their customer services would even get them to acknowledge they knew of the existence of this code...

My options here were...
1. Get a code through illegal means. (I didn't technically need an entire second copy of the game.)
2. Continue pestering the customer service people in the faint hope they might actually realise their mistake.
3. Demand a refund. (But game companies are notorious for ignoring those kinds of demands.)
4. Sue the company. (No idea whether that would work.)

After several weeks of trying option 2, without success, I gave in and went with option 1.

I have no idea what the 'right' response would've been from a legal point of view, since they sold me a product with crucial bits missing.
In as far as the situation was concerned, it's similar to selling someone a car, but not giving them a set of keys, then when they ask you for the keys, you claim not to know it even needs any...

There's undoubtedly some kind of legal recourse, but it would have taken a lot of time and money for very little gain, other than to prove a point to the company in question about being more careful with what you sell people...

 

[Yureina]

I'm in Washington state. Would you happen to know if cracks are illegal here?

Cracks are illegal in the US under the DMCA as a form of circumvention of copy protection.

Bugger. Oh well. Thanks for confirming that. :3

Christ does this country make me sad sometimes. ;_;

 

[alandavidson]

That's all well and good, but some time last year I was put in the situation of a company selling me a game with DRM, and then not providing me the required codes to actually get the game to install and work.
No amount of discussing this with their customer services would even get them to acknowledge they knew of the existence of this code...

My options here were...
1. Get a code through illegal means. (I didn't technically need an entire second copy of the game.)
2. Continue pestering the customer service people in the faint hope they might actually realise their mistake.
3. Demand a refund. (But game companies are notorious for ignoring those kinds of demands.)
4. Sue the company. (No idea whether that would work.)

After several weeks of trying option 2, without success, I gave in and went with option 1.

I have no idea what the 'right' response would've been from a legal point of view, since they sold me a product with crucial bits missing.
In as far as the situation was concerned, it's similar to selling someone a car, but not giving them a set of keys, then when they ask you for the keys, you claim not to know it even needs any...

There's undoubtedly some kind of legal recourse, but it would have taken a lot of time and money for very little gain, other than to prove a point to the company in question about being more careful with what you sell people...

As far as legal recourse goes, yes, you can sue the company for not delivering the product as promised.

The easier option? Just say "I want to speak to your manager." Keep going up the ladder until you get to someone who actually cares, or can actually help you. Believe it or not, companies do actually listen. Customer service reps have very little training, usually don't know a thing about the company they work for, and hate their jobs. Don't even deal with them, go up the food chain.

An even easier option is to just take it back to the store and let them know the problem. As long as it has the receipt and original packaging, they'll usually take it back with no questions asked.

There's always a legal way to solve issues. It does take some work and effort, but it's worth it. Believe me, I work in the entertainment industry, and I know how frustrating and convoluted it can be. That's why I try to help people navigate the minefield that it is. But there's always a legal way. And if you're not sure, ask.

 

[Connor Lonske]

It's a pure grey area. Emulation on the other hand(as in games from before the last generation) are fair game legally if you own them under any circumstances. Or at least currently. That could change at some point.

 

[Chanel Tompkins]

It's sorta sad that DRM has become obnoxious enough to warrant that, but in the eyes of the law you would still be a pirate, since fair use only extends to copies you make yourself, not to ones you download from the Internet, and specifically because you're circumventing the DRM. If it makes you feel any better though, most everyone would call it justified piracy.

 

[evilneko]

Yes. You are still engaging in copyright infringement. That's really all there is to it.

 

[alandavidson]

You know, I had a similar question, but more about rediculously old games than DRM, honestly no DRM has actually stopped me right as I was about to throw down some epic ass-kicking and asked "Hey you the guy who purchased this?" So I have no problem with DRM.

No, more about when I used to have multiple copies of an old game because of wear and tear that made all the disks unuseable. The software is out of print, and I don't feel like spending 200 dollars on eBay for "Mint-condition in box with original blah blah blah" just to get it back. Is it okay to find an online disk-rip copy then? (this game was made before online marketing so theres no online copy for offical market by the company)

According to the Fair Use Doctrine, that's perfectly legal. It's creating "archival copies" of a game that you already own. Like I've in another post on this thread, it's a grey area when it comes to the DMCA, but it's still legal. Torrenting is illegal because it also uploads and creates a way for people to get copies of something that they do not already own.

EDIT: Just to be clear, it has to be a physical copy. You can't go online and download something that you already own, you can only make a physical copy of the game disk.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Legally speaking, it is till piracy.

But morally speaking, I find it difficult to find fault with it.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[Yureina]

Well, it looks like this won't fly. Nor will cracking the game since it's illegal where I live.

Guess i'll be sitting this game out after all. >_<

Goddamn do I hate that publisher. >_<

 

[Twilight_guy]

The law is going to tell you its wrong but you bought the game so you paid money. It's still up in the air though since what that DRM does could theoretically push this into the wrong depending on what it is. If you really don't like the DRM that much send the company a letter complaining and don't buy it to show how you feel. I don't think people realize how powerful a shitload of letters could be in sending a company a message.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Speaking completely out of my ass here, but I believe if you pirate a game you own on something like a 360 or a PC, then you'll get hit with the piracy hammer.

If you can provide proof of ownership for the thing that you own on PC and are downloading, you should be in the legal green zone.

 

[Random Fella]

Technically yes, it is piracy, as you've technically gotten the same game you just received, for free, therefore having 2x the game while only paying for one, wether you used the originally purchased item or not.
If you were found doing it, you would still be done on the same legally.
As for my opinion, if you paid for it and want to play it offline due to DRM and such, then I (hmm how to word it) think it is appropriate yet I don't condole piracy? (Yeah I think that'll keep them away)
Morally fine, but legally and technically illegal.