Is it racist to ban the N-word? I'm confused here.

[Parasondox]

. Essentially, you have white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people. I'm rather certain that that falls under the category of "racism".

Uh... Don't black people ALREADY do this to white people? Don't most minorities make the "You can't use that, it's a slur against my group" claim whenever some one of the majority uses a word they deem offensive? Hell, I've seen people get chewed out for saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" because it "discriminates against the non-binary."

As a matter of fact, isn't that basically what started the debate in the first place, one group telling another what they can or cannot say? Black people saying white people can't use the n-word?

You have a major point and may play into another reason why this has been fueled and egged on to this point. "You can't say say but we can say that but we can't say this, so you can't say that". It's like it's going full circle and not really going away and just ends up being a worthless cycle.

For me, as a black person (Did I really have to state I was black?), don't mind if people say the "n-word" as long as it's not used as a weapon to incite hate of any kind. Let's be serious here a minute. Like several music artist, having the word "******" in their lyrics and the even a song/album called "Niggas in Paris", it would be kind of hypocritical and extremely double standard, if said lyrics were sung out loud by someone who wasn't black, and get extremely angry by it. A word you used in your song, is being heard by millions of people, is now normalising the word "******" and giving it a different meaning to what it was before in the past.

So where exactly, if any, would that artist draw the line? Stop using the word all together, or carry on using the word and giving it a different meaning?

 

[EyeReaper]

What, are you saying it doesn't make sense to say "You can't say this word, it's racist, but you also can't ban this word, that's also racist Mmm cake I have it and I eat it too"?

I think we really should just let the word die. We don't have problems with the word "Gook" nowadays do we? (If we do, then I take back what I say) and do you know why? Because we don't constantly have Asian people refer to themselves as gooks. the word ****** is only still around because people, both black and white, keep using it all the time. If we just stopped using it, we wouldn't have this problem. And yes, I know that there's no way for people to just stop using a word so ingrained into pop culture, that would be too idealistic, but that's really the only way I can see that would avoid these problems. Then again, I'm white, so I guess I wouldn't know

 

[Brian Tams]

Once again we're just seeing a word, instead of looking at the intent in which it was used.

Oddly enough, some black people it as a sign of camaraderie, while other people(usually non-blacks) use it as a racial insult.

So, at the end of the day, my problem with the rule is that it would be very difficult to enforce, since the intent of the word operates on different spectrums; one of love, the other of pure hate.

Honestly, though, Gooddell is coming off as a hypocrite here; a team in the league he commissions is called the Redskins. Come on, man.

 

[Major_Tom]

Can we ban the "N-word"? No, not "******", the actual "N-word". People shouldn't be saying "X-word" unless they are like 5 or something.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

From my understanding the NFL is trying to ban slurs against homosexuals, and such as well. I think the NFL may be trying to emulate Baseball in terms of not allowing people to harm the image of it rather than just focus on one racial slur.

I might have mis-heard, though.

 

[tippy2k2]

Well there are two big reasons people don't like it (and one small one); one "philosophical" and one practical (and one hypocritical).

Philosophical: While it is a terrible word, the fact that they are going after only the one word rather than other hateful words ("Fag" might become a big deal with Michael Sam entering the draft) and swears is kind of bullshit. Especially considering that (Alert the media!) the majority of NFL players are black. A bunch of rich white guys are going to tell the black players that they are not allowed to say ******? There's bound to be players who think that ****** IS a terrible word that shouldn't be said by anyone who would rally against this rule for that very reason.

Practical: There's a pile-up on the field as a ball is fumbled. Five players have piled on top of it and are fighting over the ball. "Fucking ******!" is heard from the pile. Who said it?

Hypocritical: There is a NFL team called "The Redskins". Something about rocks and glass houses?

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

"Nigga" is thrown around pretty casually among younger black guys sort of like dude, man, or bro. That's probably how it's used the most in the NFL. I wouldn't say banning it is racist but I could definitely see that being a rule that's either not enforced at all, or very obnoxious in the cases when it is. Really, without a rule I think a player who's ACTUALLY racist would probably get in trouble anyways.

 

[MHR]

If a black man wants to say it in the NFL... whaddya gonna do, penalize him for being racist against black people? He's no Uncle Ruckus, that's ridiculous.

But as a white person, saying N-word is pretty racist but banning it is also offensive. If I want to saunter into the hood and start callin' everyone the N-word, that's my business. Don't mean I'm gonna do it, but this is 'Merica.

 

[MysticSlayer]

. Essentially, you have white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people. I'm rather certain that that falls under the category of "racism".

Uh... Don't black people ALREADY do this to white people? Don't most minorities make the "You can't use that, it's a slur against my group" claim whenever some one of the majority uses a word they deem offensive? Hell, I've seen people get chewed out for saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" because it "discriminates against the non-binary."

As a matter of fact, isn't that basically what started the debate in the first place, one group telling another what they can or cannot say? Black people saying white people can't use the n-word?

The difference is that when white people use the word, it is often used with racist intent. It is really as simple as that.

 

[Saetha]

. Essentially, you have white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people. I'm rather certain that that falls under the category of "racism".

Uh... Don't black people ALREADY do this to white people? Don't most minorities make the "You can't use that, it's a slur against my group" claim whenever some one of the majority uses a word they deem offensive? Hell, I've seen people get chewed out for saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" because it "discriminates against the non-binary."

As a matter of fact, isn't that basically what started the debate in the first place, one group telling another what they can or cannot say? Black people saying white people can't use the n-word?

The difference is that when white people use the word, it is often used with racist intent. It is really as simple as that.

That... assumes an awful lot, both about white people and the context that they're using the word in. What if it's not said with racist intent?

 

[MysticSlayer]

. Essentially, you have white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people. I'm rather certain that that falls under the category of "racism".

Uh... Don't black people ALREADY do this to white people? Don't most minorities make the "You can't use that, it's a slur against my group" claim whenever some one of the majority uses a word they deem offensive? Hell, I've seen people get chewed out for saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" because it "discriminates against the non-binary."

As a matter of fact, isn't that basically what started the debate in the first place, one group telling another what they can or cannot say? Black people saying white people can't use the n-word?

The difference is that when white people use the word, it is often used with racist intent. It is really as simple as that.

That... assumes an awful lot,

Yes, because the problem originated from it being used in a neutral or endearing way...

What if it's not said with racist intent?

Don't know, because it isn't used in a non-racist fashion often enough to really gauge a usual response.

But if you want specifics: Quoting someone is probably OK, except for when you're using that quote to support racist remarks. Being good friends with the person and them knowing you mean it in an endearing or joking way might go over well with them, but I doubt others around them would be so accepted due to them not knowing your intent. Other than those two situations, I can't really imagine any in which it would be accepted, and one of them is rather limited in where you can use it.

 

[Saetha]

. Essentially, you have white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people. I'm rather certain that that falls under the category of "racism".

Uh... Don't black people ALREADY do this to white people? Don't most minorities make the "You can't use that, it's a slur against my group" claim whenever some one of the majority uses a word they deem offensive? Hell, I've seen people get chewed out for saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" because it "discriminates against the non-binary."

As a matter of fact, isn't that basically what started the debate in the first place, one group telling another what they can or cannot say? Black people saying white people can't use the n-word?

The difference is that when white people use the word, it is often used with racist intent. It is really as simple as that.

That... assumes an awful lot,

Yes, because the problem originated from it being used in a neutral or endearing way...

Maybe the term originated from racism, but still, isn't it prejudiced in and of itself to assume that if a white person uses the word, they're using it with racist intent? Where do slurs like "cracker" or "whitey" fit into this? Does that same hold true for black people, if they use it in a clearly derogatory way towards other black people? And is it so unthinkable that a white person may use it among strangers or acquaintances, not to be racist, but as an attempt to fit in? It's an awful lot to assume that if a white guy uses it, they're almost certainly using it in a racist way.

This is the sort of attitude that bugs me, when people see someone's white and assumes, "of course they're racist." Not only is it astonishingly hypocritical, it's Western-centric, too, and ignores the fact that there's plenty of countries where white people are in the minority, and often the target of racism.

It reminds of that one turian from Mass Effect. "You humans are all racist!" indeed.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

The issue here a that one group believes the word to be offensive and another does not. It's amusing that it's white people who think "******" is offensive, while black people apparently have no issue with it.

If it is offensive and a racial slur, it should be banned and I applaud any move to keep racism out of sport.
If it is not offensive, then no action needs to be taken.

The issue is that people cannot decide if "******" is offensive or okay to use in common parlance.

It can be both, words can have multiple meanings. It means "black brother" and it means "you're worthless because you're black". Who you are and how you say it decides the meaning.

It is irrelevant if it has multiple meanings. If one of those meanings is offensive, then it's offensive. Whether or not it offends absolutely everyone doesn't matter. If it is considered offensive by a significant enough percentage, which I strongly suspect "******" qualifies for, then I think banning it from professional sports is not just a good move, it's the correct move. Doing so sends a message to players that racism won't be tolerated.

In the UK, we have John Terry, captain of Chelsea and formerly captain of the national team. He is a racist and a philanderer, cheats with his teammates wives and got only a metaphorical slap on the wrist. The FA are so dirty that Premiereship players can get away with this sort of behaviour and still hold multi-million pound contracts and adorn the bedrooms of 12 year old boys who look up to them.

And this is totally off topic and just derp.

Not off topic. This thread is directly about racism in sport and how the governing body deals with it.

d) If a black guy has pissed me off I would drop the N bomb, that doesn't make me racist. It's just a word.

Actually, it does make you racist in this example. Just by the act of using someone's race, gender, etc as the insult suggests that they should feel inferior on account of that alone, that it is something worthy of insult or shame.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

It reminds of that one turian from Mass Effect. "You humans are all racist!" indeed.

Man, screw the Turians, with their mandibles and their calibrations. They started the First Contact War. Plus they suck at biotics.

Although to be fair, Turians, just like humans, aren't a race, they're a species.

 

[JimB]

The word "******" is not necessary, in the sense that the concept it is intended to describe is not one worth protecting or fighting for. I therefore have no particular objection to its use being banned by a professional organization that, though it is an unorthodox workplace, is nevertheless a workplace and that therefore has the right to lay down a code of conduct for its employees. I certainly doubt anyone would be complaining if we were talking about, say, a hospital that banned its employees from using the word "******" while on duty.

 

[ThreeName]

My question is, what happens when a white person calls another white person ******?

 

[MysticSlayer]

Maybe the term originated from racism, but still, isn't it prejudiced in and of itself to assume that if a white person uses the word, they're using it with racist intent?...And is it so unthinkable that a white person may use it among strangers or acquaintances, not to be racist, but as an attempt to fit in? It's an awful lot to assume that if a white guy uses it, they're almost certainly using it in a racist way.

The unfortunate reality is that there are still racists, and they still use that term to broadcast how much they hate blacks. There have even been relatively high-profile people use the word. It is still an incredibly loaded term, filled with racial prejudice. For a white person to use that term is insensitive at best.

Maybe things will be different in one-hundred years time, but as of right now, trying to make it seem like it could just be normal for a white person to say it without the racial connotations simply doesn't fit with reality.

Where do slurs like "cracker" or "whitey" fit into this? Does that same hold true for black people, if they use it in a clearly derogatory way towards other black people?

Well, in that situation, it holds the implication that white people are lower than black people, and that clearly isn't right. So yes, it would be an issue.

Simply put, racism of any type directed towards any group is bad. It's not like anyone is saying anything else.

This is the sort of attitude that bugs me, when people see someone's white and assumes, "of course they're racist."

Look who's making assumptions...

Not only is it astonishingly hypocritical, it's Western-centric, too, and ignores the fact that there's plenty of countries where white people are in the minority, and often the target of racism.

Well, guess what? We're not in those countries. Racism, on moral grounds, is just as bad there as it is here. But here, white people aren't seriously affected by discrimination and structural racism. Black people still are, and citing racism towards whites in another country doesn't remedy that situation.

 

[Something Amyss]

First off, let's be clear: he said "almost" racist and the quote in the news story from the OP says that. I haven't looked too far down the thread yet, but I'm seriously hoping people haven't taken this out of hand.

Is it to do with this unwritten rule about how, "This is now our word and others can't use it" type situation?

Regardless of how anyone feels about the situation, the word "nigga" has entered into the vernacular of a good chunk of black Americans. And again, regardless of who agrees with it, it's going to generally be taken differently when said by white folks than black folks. It's not hard to see why, either. Not only is there the inherent context, but there's the fact that white people still use it as a slur. I can't remember the last time I saw or heard about a black person using it in the same context, excluding things like comedy (where I've seen three thousand Chris Rock rip-offs) or movies (and even then, not recent).

And on the context note, I know white folks in the South who call their friends (black ones) "nigga" and it's fine. So it's not necessarily that only black people can say it. My friends and I will react different to queer slurs if an outsider person says one because to the culture at large these are still terms of hostility. I know Asian folks who stereotype themselves in humour, and even a couple of Jewish folk who make self-depricating comments that from a non-Jew would at least boder on anti-semetic.

Of course, then you run into the issue that black people don't all agree, nor does any group. Even within the same community or generation, you won't see actual consensus on the word or most other slurs, former slurs, reclaimed slurs, whatever.

In the end, the complaint almost makes sense: this is a ban that would disproportionately target black players. I still don't agree that it's racist, but I can see the argument for "almost racist."

I feel like the NFL pays high enough to impose whatever rules they want.
I don't really see the point of it in all honesty, but whatever.

Well, they're a corporation, so they can mostly do what they want, period.

In my experience Americans are a little too prudish around language. They think that by mangling it they can solve the bigger issues behind words. I don't know if it's racist to band the word "******" or not, all I know is you shouldn't. Either let people reveal themselves as racist or let them use the word for discussion value.

In terms of prudishness, I'm yet to actually deal with a culture for which words can't meet with a vitriolic response.

In terms of banning the word, racism on the field isn't the issue at hand.

I imagine it'd be like banning the word "mate" for British white guys.

Mostly, except I'm not sure there's ever been a quote that Essex would be a "mate's graveyard." "******'s graveyard" was a term used to talk about basically killing all blacks if they couldn't be driven out.

It might have the same meaning in some cases, but "mate" or "bloke" or "chap" or "fellow" will likely never be seated with the baggage that makes this an issue in the first place.

I mean, aren't there already rules dictating that you aren't allowed to harass players?

Harassment and profanity. I'm sure a white dude calling a black dude a "******" on the field would qualify as both.

I could also see the argument that they don't want it getting picked up on TV, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here (plus, they delay and censor the NFL, don't they?).

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

In my experience Americans are a little too prudish around language. They think that by mangling it they can solve the bigger issues behind words. I don't know if it's racist to band the word "******" or not, all I know is you shouldn't. Either let people reveal themselves as racist or let them use the word for discussion value.

In terms of prudishness, I'm yet to actually deal with a culture for which words can't meet with a vitriolic response.

America is queen prude when it comes to language though. Firing for foul language? Check. Big scandal about it on national news? Check. Social stigma if you don't submit to stupid euphemisms? Check. Military will teach you to butcher people but will suspend you if you draw a naughty word on your fighter plane? Check. In my experience Americans tend to focus a little too much on language and not enough on the actual issue.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I think this entire "15 yard penalty for saying ******" (note: I refuse to say "the N-word" because it sounds like something a 5 year old would say in lieu of saying a curse word) is ridiculous, and most of the players seem to agree.

I think Richard Sherman largely hit the nail on the head, as he's essentially saying that it's racist to single out a racial slur for one group while ignoring all the rest. What he's basically asking is why there is a penalty for ******, but no penalty for cracker, spic, *****, etc.

There's also the obvious question of when the term is used in a manner not intending to be derogatory. If one black teammate tells another black teammate "nice catch nigga!" are they going to penalize the team? It'd be like calling holding on the offense when two teammates give each other a high-five.

At the end of the day, the NFL is a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want, but this sounds ridiculously arbitrary to me.