Is it really necessary to prosecute pirates so much?

[Bob_McMillan]

Let's not turn this into a "is piracy right or wrong" thread, huh? Because that's against the rules. I think.

Anyway, my dad was watching some History Channel, and I was reminiscing about how good it used to be. Eventually, I started thinking about this show I watched a long time ago, who's name I forgot. It was a series about how the feds and cops caught fugitives or criminals that had evaded capture for long periods of time. This one was about some pirate, as in you know, internet pirates. He would take videos of movies and sell them at garage sales or on the street. As someone who lives in a country where pirated movies (which we call "deebeedee") are sold alongside newspapers, this was really interesting. The guy in question, who's name I also forgot, was apparently a very violent person, and they put a lot of emphasis on how the authorities had to catch him before he snapped (which never happened). Looking back, I have a feeling that the show tried to make Mr. McPirate into such a baddie to justify all the effort that went into capturing him. In reality, this guy was some loser who didn't bother getting honest work, and , who in my opinion, is not worth all the effort. They had stakeouts, sent his picture around the world (they caught him in Mexico), and all that.
'
It happens today too, they have police raids just to take down torrent sites like the Pirate Bay. That couldn't have been easy, or cheap. With all the drug running, sex trafficking, terrorism, etc in the world, wouldn't the governments' time and money be better spent on these problems, instead of a couple of "nerds" and "neckbeards" who get off by cheating the system?

 

[Lilani]

Sites like The Pirate Bay quite proudly host content which is copyrighted by other companies and is illegal to acquire without their knowledge. That is illegal, and countries have an obligation to uphold their laws. At least part of the reason some are so aggressive and determined to catch pirates is because if they fail to make a good effort at stopping them, big film or game companies might sue them for damages. Piracy cuts into their profits, and if a country is not upholding a law or regulation which would stop them from losing this money, those companies can hold that country's authorities responsible for the loss. So if you ask me, the current fight against piracy is less about actually trying to stop piracy and more about trying not to get sued by big media companies.

As for why web sites are cracked down on more than physically pirated discs, it's simply because a web site is easier to track and bring down than thousands upon thousands of people selling knock-off DVDs on streetcorners. It's simply not worth their time to bother with the small-time sellers running stands.

 

[small]

there are some stupid ass laws out there in regards to copyright. take here in australia. its perfectly legal to record a program on tv to watch later BUT its illegal to watch and record at the same time

 

[Thaluikhain]

Over in Australia, the authorities are mostly "meh" about most pirates. Now, if you are doing it for money, things might be different, but for individuals pirating for individual use, it's not seen as much of a concern.

There is some talk that if the laws meaning metadata has to be kept for 2 years go ahead, police will come down on ordinary pirates, though.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Piracy is something they will never be able to contain. For every upload that is taken down, another dozen links will take its place. For every pirate that is taken to court and sued, thousands will laugh at the companies that initiated the action and continue to take their copyrighted material for free use. I do not deal death and judgement (Gandalf!!!) to pirates, as I see it as a crime not really worth the attention of authorities. But it'll never be stopped, ever, unless the Internet as a whole goes down.

So no, I don't see it as necessary at all, as it's a battle the copyright holders will never, ever, ever win. They'll be laughed at at every conceivable turn, and as some would say, rightly so. Not necessarily myself, but still. Instead, they should seek to engage the loyal audiences that pay for the products and reward them with top quality releases.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Major media companies will always, always, always (did I mention always?) paint pirates as the absolute scum of the universe. (I forgot how the word "pirate" shifted from "seafaring criminal" to "person who illegally copies protected intellectual properties," but I imagine Big Media enjoys using the word.) It is a threat to them, if only because it could grow to the point where the big shots who do make royalties and residuals actually notice less money coming in than they should be getting. Right now, current piracy rates aren' a big threat to most major industries. The video game industry probably being the one that could be threatened by a spike, as the budgets have gone way up in recent years and poor sales and/or mismanagement have killed studios.

The reason they really put so much effort into prosecuting pirates to scare everyone. The fear of having to go through the litigation or settle for more than the average yearly salary per infraction was their main weapon for the early 00s. It still is a well used piece of their arsenal, but they finally pulled their heads out of the money counting rooms in their asses to realize that suing a 13 year old girl for $120,000 isn't going to stop internet piracy. Although, going after the major players that enable it will slow it down. That's why record companies went after Napster, and everyone is hitting the Pirate Bay founders and Kim Dotcom like speedbags. There's more to win at the lawsuits (both financially and through legal precedents), and it cuts off a source for the more casual pirates. The governments are surely doing these raids because of all the sweet campaign donations and lobbying that comes from the groups demanding them too happen. It all about the money for both the private and public sectors. (It's also scary how powerful and far SOPA got before the public outcry (for now) crushed it.)

The good news is they've let up one the small guys, for now. ISPs are sending warnings of copyright infringement, instead of immediately surrendering customer information to lawyers. That alone lets those ignorant of what they are doing, and those that do know but think they can get away, learn from their mistakes. The lawyers are concentrating on the sources, instead of the people who may very well turn to piracy out of necessity. (Of course, some end user pirates are still just cheapskates that want everything free.) Hopefully, they also feel that going after the sources means excessive DRM isn't necessary, but I wouldn't hold my breath for Hollywood or the RIAA to admit that.

Spoiler: More ranting about my view on piracy

That leads into my opinion that piracy is an issue of service. Movies and TV shows, because of licensing issues and red tape, don't make it to many regions where they are in demand, or they do but way later than the rest of the world. Many countries tax or ban games to the point a resident there has to make 3 times the average salary to afford a new console or gaming PC and games. We had an article on the Escapist a month ago about how Nintendo is leaving Brazil, thanks to the government labeling them gambling devices and taxing them out the wazoo, and I just read on Cracked about how Venezuela banned violent games in 1998. (Granted it's Cracked, and commenters said the law is now enforced almost nowhere.) The Australian government is once again being old cunts, screaming "think of the children," and denied Hotline: Miama 2 classification, despite the new R18+ rating the game should fall under. In countries like that, piracy is the only choice. In fact some devs, even encourage piracy in those specific cases, since it was going to happen anyway. Hotline Miami 2's dev did after it was refused a rating. Many anime and manga importers realized that fans want to be as up to date as possible, so they started doing official subs of anime episodes as soon as possible and put them online. Some companies have learned what is actually going on with the world and have more realistic views about how their creation should be consumed.

 

[Olas]

It seems by that same logic we should stop trying to prevent all petty crime. Speeding? J-walking? Shoplifting? All of these are minor compared to sex-trafficking and terrorism. So should we ignore these things until we [a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation"]completely stamp out all bigger problems in the world?[/a]

Obviously it's possible to overreact to a crime, any crime, but that doesn't mean the answer is to run to the opposite extreme.

 

[Mister K]

On one hand, some of the content, be it a game, a book or a movie is simply inaccessible for purchase because it simply isn't released physically, or because it has region lock on digital version. And a lot of times companies fail to grasp a simple reality that not only licensed version of Win7 isn't accessible (price wise) to the majority of worlds population, but customs fees make situation even worse (I use licensed Win7, just to be clear).

HOWEVER we have situation like in Russia. How many times have I seen forum discussions where people were saying "pfft, why the f**k should I buy it if I can get it for free?" "They need to feed their families? Well, I don't care. Let dirty Pindos (that's how they call Americans) pay" "Oh, you pay for games? I'll find you and burn your house, dirty burgua fa***t!" They DESPISE the concept of paying for IP.

Overall, some coutries give too much protection to IP, some give too much freedom to a-holes. It's time to find a golden medium.

 

[CaitSeith]

With all the drug running, sex trafficking, terrorism, etc in the world, wouldn't the governments' time and money be better spent on these problems, instead of a couple (put minor criminal offense here)?

Joke aside, piracy involves millions of dollars in business loses. It's obvious that corporations will put a lot of pressure on the governments to deal with that.

 

[DEAD34345]

Sites like The Pirate Bay quite proudly host content which is copyrighted by other companies and is illegal to acquire without their knowledge. That is illegal, and countries have an obligation to uphold their laws. At least part of the reason some are so aggressive and determined to catch pirates is because if they fail to make a good effort at stopping them, big film or game companies might sue them for damages. Piracy cuts into their profits, and if a country is not upholding a law or regulation which would stop them from losing this money, those companies can hold that country's authorities responsible for the loss. So if you ask me, the current fight against piracy is less about actually trying to stop piracy and more about trying not to get sued by big media companies.

As for why web sites are cracked down on more than physically pirated discs, it's simply because a web site is easier to track and bring down than thousands upon thousands of people selling knock-off DVDs on streetcorners. It's simply not worth their time to bother with the small-time sellers running stands.

The Pirate Bay doesn't host any pirated content at all, it's a search engine. I also don't know where you got this idea about big film or game companies suing a country for damages because someone is breaking their copyright, I'm pretty sure that's ridiculous.

OT: Some big corporations feel like pirates are slimming their profits slightly, and said big corporations also happen to be the ones who provide the funding that puts politicians into power. Piracy is so widespread that actually enforcing rules to stop it is impossible, so instead they seem to occasionally pick someone or something out at random to make an example of, in the hopes that a ridiculously out of proportion punishment will put people off from pirating. I doubt it works, but I wouldn't really know.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well fortunately, I don't argue right or wrong on the matter. I argue that people don't know how to handle the problem, so they shouldn't waste their time. Until you actually know what you're doing and see an effect towards the positive, something as widespread as that will keep on keeping on. That, and I invoke Neil Gaiman to slam that coffin lid down even harder.

 

[Death_Cometh]

Piracy has always been a problem of availability. Itunes did more to combat music piracy than any laws or taking down of pirate sites because it gave people a cheap and easy alternative. People are going to go for the easiest option every time and if piracy is the easiest option then they are going to pirate. If you give them better alternatives then they won't pirate.

As for prosecuting them it is more of a hollow gesture to placate big business and the old guy club that tends to be in charge and are terrified of the internet.

 

[Wendman]

Piracy has always been a problem of availability. Itunes did more to combat music piracy than any laws or taking down of pirate sites because it gave people a cheap and easy alternative. People are going to go for the easiest option every time and if piracy is the easiest option then they are going to pirate. If you give them better alternatives then they won't pirate.

This argument doesn't hold up to me. Just because something isn't as easily available as tap water I can't just break the law. That would be like saying. (TRIGGER ALERT! I AM USING AN EXAGGERATION)"No woman wants to fuck with me, damn just rape her!"

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

On a phone, so can't type too much or that well. But briefly on the point of police time and better spending it elsewhere...two things:
- It's not strictly speaking a case of either/or. They either chase digital criminals or sex traffickers. Police departments and personnel have different duties. Some are only traffic police, some go after murderers, others chase pirates, etc. Pursuing one doesn't preclude pursuing the others.
- One must also consider that "media companies" employ a lot of people. They produce products that generate revenue and thus tax. They pay tax on their profits (well...not frequently). The existence and welfare of these companies is thus very important to any government. If you were the leader of a government and one of these companies came to you complaining that criminals were threatening the tax revenues they generate and the job security of thousands of your citizens that they employ, you're damn well gonna pay attention and take them seriously.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Piracy has always been a problem of availability. Itunes did more to combat music piracy than any laws or taking down of pirate sites because it gave people a cheap and easy alternative. People are going to go for the easiest option every time and if piracy is the easiest option then they are going to pirate. If you give them better alternatives then they won't pirate.

This argument doesn't hold up to me. Just because something isn't as easily available as tap water I can't just break the law. That would be like saying. (TRIGGER ALERT! I AM USING AN EXAGGERATION)"No woman wants to fuck with me, damn just rape her!"

That's a pretty stupid exaggeration that completely misses the point. It's not about what people should do in the face of inconvenience, it's about what people will do.

You can stamp your feet and decry it as immoral all you want, but it is undeniably more convent to pirate in most cases, and so people will continue to pirate until it is less convenient to do so. This isn't a moral judgement of the situation, it is simply the reality.

Why do so many people seem unable to differentiate between how they feel everything should be, and how it actually is?

 

[Thaluikhain]

The Pirate Bay doesn't host any pirated content at all, it's a search engine. I also don't know where you got this idea about big film or game companies suing a country for damages because someone is breaking their copyright, I'm pretty sure that's ridiculous.

There are moves towards trade deals which would, among other things, allow companies to sue governments for laws they feel damage their profits. Law piracy laws could be interpreted that way.

 

[The Bucket]

Piracy has always been a problem of availability. Itunes did more to combat music piracy than any laws or taking down of pirate sites because it gave people a cheap and easy alternative. People are going to go for the easiest option every time and if piracy is the easiest option then they are going to pirate. If you give them better alternatives then they won't pirate.

This argument doesn't hold up to me. Just because something isn't as easily available as tap water I can't just break the law.

You still can, but a huge amount of people have been proven to not pirate when the legal alternative isn't objectively inferior (i.e., pirated copies without intrusive DRM against legal copies that do have it) and more conveniant to get.

That would be like saying. (TRIGGER ALERT! I AM USING AN EXAGGERATION)"No woman wants to fuck with me, damn just rape her!"

No, it wouldn't be like saying that at all. A metaphor that puts software pirates on a similar level to literal rapists isn't that useful for the purposes of discussion.

 

[jklinders]

I used to be thoroughly in line with the strong enforcement against pirates line line but it is like trying to kill all the ants in a field by stepping on them one at a time. then realizing that this is only one of limitless anthills. I'm not saying that content producers (whether movies gaming or HBO) need to roll over and accept it, there is a ton of money and jobs on the line after all, but I am saying a different approach is needed.

Jim Sterling was right. Content producers, if they want to protect their sales need to focus on giving a better service than the pirates. How this is done is open to interpretation as whichever media involved would have it's own tools. More content, easier access, earlier access and reasonable prices.

CDPRed is making pretty good money off of this model as is their distribution platform GoG. Steam is doing quite well too. TV and movie studios need to look at their success and see if they can learn anything from it.

provide a better service and you will get more sales. You will never get all of the sales. But before the digital age they didn't anyway but you get enough to stay profitable.

I cannot accept piracy as a status quo and I feel as if it should be enforced on the most egregious offenders, the ones who are actually profiting from other people's work without compensating them but random people uploading Game of Thrones on the internet? C'mon.....