Is it Worth Having Morals in the Gaming Industry Any More?

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

In a lot of ways, I feel like a fool.

When CastleSuperBeast goes on a rant on how scummy Epic Game Stores practices are [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0mqXOFiHA], then a month later make actual news headlines by buying things on the Epic Game Store [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjLrJCizRiE]... I mean, I feel like a man standing in front of a tidal wave trying to stop it with just my convictions.

I'm not asking for a pity party. I'm just getting super disillusioned. It doesn't feel like anyone cares about making this hobby of ours better. Everyone just wants the new shiny. We don't demand the best by action. We complain that we deserve better, and then eat up whatever slop comes our way because it's the only way to get what we want earlier.

I've stopped buying Gearbox games because Randy Pitchford is a human trashfire. He is literally the entitled nerd that believed he deserved the world placed in a powerful position. I love most of their games, I'm a giant Borderlands fan, and I am uniquely aware that it wasn't only Pitchford making the game. I know there are hundreds of people working on the game. But I can not be apart of giving this man power any more. No matter how much I wanted this game.

But it doesn't matter. Millions are going to flock to this game. and they probably should. It looks great. Barring the Epic Games deal and Pitchford, the game looks more than solid.

I'm trying to have morals in a Hobby as vast as this. A Hobby that has little trained us like a Brain Stimulation Reward Experiment telling us we need the new thing now without delay, so we can get that sweet pleasure response. That waiting for a better product is unthinkable. Shell out the money now for a disappointing product and pay more after that initial purchase for the hopes that it will get better down the line.

I can't fight the 14 year olds who think this is normal. Who has unlimited access to Mom and Dad's credit card and will outvote me with their wallets every time, rendering my voice imperceptible.

Is it worth having morals for just the sake of morals when you are the perennial underdog? This is just a Hobby after all. We can all just walk away and find something else to do.

 

[ZeD [taken 0]]

Personally, no.
I also don't base the worth of having morals on whether or not my neighbour feels the same.

I buy things that I like, whether it's on Epic store or Steam, and skip things that I don't, full stop.
It's not my job to make sure the developers are being treated right or that publishers are well behaved.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Hmm, but they also disagree with pre-order culture, yet their particular profession kinda requires them to get the games ASAP for their content that everyone watches them for. It's been brought up before I think on the show. well, the one before the new naming convention. and bringing up the popular criticisms of the store shouldn't mean they must boycott it or be labeled hypocrites. it isn't that black and white. the rest of the industry is down to unbridled capitalism infecting artistic processes and visions, as it does with every entertainment medium. unfortunately the majority either don't care or see it as glorious Western superiority. look at the pop industry...can you imagine all the indie artists and passionate music people trying to sway that lovecraftian horror? how insignificant any attempt would be in the face of it all? [small]if you don't want to support a company but still want to try the product, borrowing or pirating is the only way to maintain the moral balance, as no extra profit is given[/small]

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Hmm, but they also disagree with pre-order culture, yet their particular profession kinda requires them to get the games ASAP for their content that everyone watches them for. It's been brought up before I think on the show. well, the one before the new naming convention. and bringing up the popular criticisms of the store shouldn't mean they must boycott it or be labeled hypocrites. it isn't that black and white. the rest of the industry is down to unbridled capitalism infecting artistic processes and visions, as it does with every entertainment medium

I disagree with that sentiment that their profession kind of requires them to get the games ASAP. There are plenty of Letsplayers who do indie games or old games, like SplattercatGaming [https://www.youtube.com/user/SplatterCatGaming].

I watched PatStaresAt Vampire Bloodline even though I beat that game many times before back in my 20's. They can follow the trend of releases, but they aren't chained to it. As I said, SplatterCatGaming has more subs than Woolie Vs, Pat Stares At, and Matt McMuscles combined.

And you'll notice that I didn't call them hypocrites. I'm not happy at the situation, but this current social media world is built on influencers. Like it or not, whether they consider themselves it or not, Castle Superbeast are influencers. If they do something, if they say something, and if report on it... it's influence. Influence can never be black or white, but it can be leading. Which is the problem.

My saying I'll never buy a game on Epic means nothing to anyone here. And I've been a community member for over a decade. My opinion barely registers on here. I'm not complaining. That's just my station now. I have no influence nor fan base that my word means anything to.

But they do.

It doesn't all have to be positive or in line with their individual actions at the moment, but just showing off the game (when it comes out) is enough to get some people to shrug their shoulders and buy. Whether or not that it's simply to get views for the money, it becomes a form of marketing if an influencer shows it off. If you or I did, no one would click our pages because we're no one in the Social Media world. But if they do, it's Brand Recognition recognizing and promoting a new Brand.

... I know it's old, but I have to do the meme.

It's Brandception.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Is it worth having morals for just the sake of morals when you are the perennial underdog? This is just a Hobby after all. We can all just walk away and find something else to do.

I'll partake in most anything that I feel is worth my time. The problem with video gaming is that these 'rock bottom' morals are causing games to be rather shit so it's not worth my time to play them anyway. Thus, considering the morality doesn't even come into play.

If you really love gaming, check out board games that in a far far better place than video games right now. Board games are in a golden age right now so why even give video games the time of day? The best "video games" are basically digital board games right now, many of which can be played on your phone. The Gloomhaven RPG is getting a digital version that looks to be pretty damn good and coming out soon. It has a battle system better than any turn-based video game RPG in quite some time as video game RPGs usually have shit turn-based battle systems.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I tangentially addressed my sentiments in this thread (sorry, not sure how to link to it, so quoting it below

My Post

And just realized that I quoted you (ObsidionJones) there as well. The industry is changing, HAS changed, and to accept it with inaction (inaction being ignoring the issues as DeZilton suggested above and simply indulging as if there ARE no issues) is to forfeit any moral stance you might have. I?m not suggesting that anyone do as I have done and embrace the disaffection, but you must ultimately answer to yourself. Your morals, even if shared, mean nothing to me or anybody else, so is it worth it to you to have morals in the gaming industry?

You are right, those of us willing to put our morality first will be drowned out; oh, they?ll hear us, and most will even AGREE with us, but in the end, nothing will change. I don?t mean to sound defeated, but the younger demographic that grew up with the ease and convenience of a black mirror in their face at all times DON?T CARE about the broader picture or implications of the business practices side of their hobby; they just want to play games, and those guys over there make them, so what?s the big deal, right? They?re the ones being catered to; it?s not us anymore. It?s The Time Machine; they?re the self-indulgent Eloi enjoying their paradise in the sun blissfully unaware of the plight of the Morlocks below who prey on them. H. G. Wells was a fucking prophet.

 

[CaitSeith]

Hmm, but they also disagree with pre-order culture, yet their particular profession kinda requires them to get the games ASAP for their content that everyone watches them for. It's been brought up before I think on the show. well, the one before the new naming convention. and bringing up the popular criticisms of the store shouldn't mean they must boycott it or be labeled hypocrites. it isn't that black and white. the rest of the industry is down to unbridled capitalism infecting artistic processes and visions, as it does with every entertainment medium

I disagree with that sentiment that their profession kind of requires them to get the games ASAP. There are plenty of Letsplayers who do indie games or old games, like SplattercatGaming [https://www.youtube.com/user/SplatterCatGaming].

I watched PatStaresAt Vampire Bloodline even though I beat that game many times before back in my 20's. They can follow the trend of releases, but they aren't chained to it. As I said, SplatterCatGaming has more subs than Woolie Vs, Pat Stares At, and Matt McMuscles combined.

And you'll notice that I didn't call them hypocrites. I'm not happy at the situation, but this current social media world is built on influencers. Like it or not, whether they consider themselves it or not, Castle Superbeast are influencers. If they do something, if they say something, and if report on it... it's influence. Influence can never be black or white, but it can be leading. Which is the problem.

My saying I'll never buy a game on Epic means nothing to anyone here. And I've been a community member for over a decade. My opinion barely registers on here. I'm not complaining. That's just my station now. I have no influence nor fan base that my word means anything to.

But they do.

It doesn't all have to be positive or in line with their individual actions at the moment, but just showing off the game (when it comes out) is enough to get some people to shrug their shoulders and buy. Whether or not that it's simply to get views for the money, it becomes a form of marketing if an influencer shows it off. If you or I did, no one would click our pages because we're no one in the Social Media world. But if they do, it's Brand Recognition recognizing and promoting a new Brand.

... I know it's old, but I have to do the meme.

It's Brandception.

Maybe you're just searching for the consumer advocacy movement in the wrong places? I mean, the industry does so many immoral things that finding people who opposes each one of them without ending up alienating themselves is difficult. Heck! It's very likely that you're used to tolerate or ignore some practice in the industry that other people see as immoral. That doesn't mean you have no morals; it means that you choose your battles.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Considering that Nintendo got their stock prices punished because they didn't want to rush Animal Crossing 2, I say that's a solid "NOPE".

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I tangentially addressed my sentiments in this thread (sorry, not sure how to link to it, so quoting it below

My Post

And just realized that I quoted you (ObsidionJones) there as well. The industry is changing, HAS changed, and to accept it with inaction (inaction being ignoring the issues as DeZilton suggested above and simply indulging as if there ARE no issues) is to forfeit any moral stance you might have. I?m not suggesting that anyone do as I have done and embrace the disaffection, but you must ultimately answer to yourself. Your morals, even if shared, mean nothing to me or anybody else, so is it worth it to you to have morals in the gaming industry?

You are right, those of us willing to put our morality first will be drowned out; oh, they?ll hear us, and most will even AGREE with us, but in the end, nothing will change. I don?t mean to sound defeated, but the younger demographic that grew up with the ease and convenience of a black mirror in their face at all times DON?T CARE about the broader picture or implications of the business practices side of their hobby; they just want to play games, and those guys over there make them, so what?s the big deal, right? They?re the ones being catered to; it?s not us anymore. It?s The Time Machine; they?re the self-indulgent Eloi enjoying their paradise in the sun blissfully unaware of the plight of the Morlocks below who prey on them. H. G. Wells was a fucking prophet.

This is basically where I'm at. I feel like just giving into the lure of the shiny and fuck it. If no one is willing to forgo a momentary pleasure for long term better treatment, it doesn't matter if I stick to my principles. The landscape will still change with the masses. My actions are cute, but futile.

Maybe you're just searching for the consumer advocacy movement in the wrong places? I mean, the industry does so many immoral things that finding people who opposes each one of them without ending up alienating themselves is difficult. Heck! It's very likely that you're used to tolerate or ignore some practice in the industry that other people see as immoral. That doesn't mean you have no morals; it means that you choose your battles.

I don't think so. Everything today is controlled by Social Media. It's why a website/app is so important, that it will be called into Congress to testify. Let that sink in. They just dropped the charges against the officials [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/flint-water-crisis-investigation-ends-charges-dropped.html] who oversaw the Flint Water Crisis that might have long term repercussions for generations to come. No one was called before Congress to answer on how this could ever be allowed to happen to American Citizens.

Have a data breach tied to Trump and get ready to have a 100 legislators be on your ass.

And the thing about it is, it sadly IS more of a big deal than the health of fellow citizens. Because it shows that social media and the ones who influence it have more sway than most parties on this planet. Hell, Social Media decides who are the parties that are on this planet.

If you want to know how the wind is blowing on anything in this world, you go to social media.

If you want the wind to blow in your direction, you go to social media.

I'm not saying that Castle Superbeast has no morals. In fact, one of the things I like must about Pat and Woolie is that their views about things often seem to be just and I'm with that.

But my issue with it is, when we like someone... when we choose who we like or follow, we're letting another voice in our heads. Some of us can just take that as another view point and go about our days. Some of us let that voice shape what we think about things. And for the latter group, those who heard about the outrage and then heard he still to Epic when the sale happened.

Again, it's not about them lacking morals. It's about laxing the conviction and going to do business with what they once called reprehensible. It has the effect of appearing to soften one's stance on an issue. Whether meant or not. And I'm sure there's at least 10% of their audience who sat in the 'Latter' group we just discussed said "Hey, if Pat thought it was ok to do it, maybe I should too".

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

First off, gotta admit I didn't finish those videos because they were boring. Sorry. So if it turns out Epic was doing something really fucked up like Billy Cosbying their employees disregard me.

But Is it an all or nothing situation though? Like, can't I both critiscise something and still buy it? Does it have to be boycotts or complete support with no middle ground?

Plus I wish people would understand that hypocrisy does not make you wrong because truth remains truth.

 

[Erttheking]

Yes. Nothing truly worth doing is easy.

 

[Worgen]

It kinda is worth having morals, but gamers are fickle as fuck, they want their games and they want them now. Fuck the epic store tho, they are scum bags who will completely dominate pc gaming if they have half a chance and I won't be a part of it and will bad mouth them at any chance. It would be funny though if they did get big but ended up losing a lot of money because it cost more to run their service then they were taking in with the lower cut, but they would increase their cut as soon as they thought they could get away with it.

 

[Silvanus]

Yes. Nothing truly worth doing is easy.

Drinking?

 

[CaitSeith]

snip

I don't follow Castle Superbeast, so I don't know the exact details of what happened. What was the nature of the criticism? Did they really condemn the Epic store and later bought something from it like nothing was wrong? No criticism about the store after the purchase? Did the store changed between videos?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Personally, no.
I also don't base the worth of having morals on whether or not my neighbour feels the same.

I buy things that I like, whether it's on Epic store or Steam, and skip things that I don't, full stop.
It's not my job to make sure the developers are being treated right or that publishers are well behaved.

Sorry to answer this so late.

The difference between what your neighbor believes in and what you do is that it barely relates to you. If your neighbor loves Wrestling and you don't care for it, it won't appear on your Television because your neighbor can't get enough of it.

Here, though, if fellow gamers will continue to gobble up and swallow down all the stupid practices that Game Developers trying to get away with, my morals in not buying it won't mean a damn. And it WILL be in their game that I might have want to buy, but have it tainted with Microtransaction bullshit.

My morals are nice, but they mean nothing in terms of changing the tide because everyone else is swimming in it. It makes gaming a less appealing hobby if I truly don't have a say in it.

snip

I don't follow Castle Superbeast, so I don't know the exact details of what happened. What was the nature of the criticism? Did they really condemn the Epic store and later bought something from it like nothing was wrong? No criticism about the store after the purchase? Did the store changed between videos?

Pat goes into how Paid exclusives on the PC is one of the worst things ever, and how it used to be a benefit for a PC gamer to be able to ignore all the bullshit that comes with the console wars. He literally follows up that point with it being the worst store ever. Some of the points, admittedly have been fixed. Like the Search Function is now added.

The next video that I posted became direct new because of Pat, because he tried to buy several games via the big deal they had. But since they don't have a shopping cart, he had to buy them all individually. That, for some reason, triggered the Epic Security and suspended his account due to fear of hacking. Because Pat is decently well known, it got fixed rather quickly.

Also, he goes into a direct way that Epic's dealings are hurting Developers. Not everyone uses the dollar. And in some countries, the dollar is significantly stronger than their currency. So, when promising to use 10 american dollars of Epic's own money to add onto the sale, Epic basically made those countries see certain games to be worth only 5 dollars of their local currency. Given the impression that once the deal is over, the game is going to look ridiculously overpriced afterwards.

Also Also, Epic did the sale without telling anyone. Anyone. So Even games that weren't even released yet had a deal. Again, a perception thing. There was no fix for it. The game developers had to honor the sales that were already bought, and they had to take down the games for the entirety of the sale because they didn't have a way to program an opt-out.

Basically, a bare-bones hopeful has been coercing game developers to break standing pledges with gamers (Kickstarter Developed games), and have been providing Customers with one sale and a few free games. Sifting through Epic Store Reviews, we have gems like "couldn't buy the game I wanted, but was still charged 4 times for it.", "Fortnite account hacked and deleted"... and actually just a lot more of that. Charged for a game they never got, Account hacked, Charged, hacked, charged, hacked...

They are spending all their money to get the games, and seemingly very little in actually giving a worth while costumer experience.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Yes. Nothing truly worth doing is easy.

Drinking?

 

[Erttheking]

Yes. Nothing truly worth doing is easy.

Drinking?

I've got a Scottish last name but I'm a teetotaler. Make of that what you will.

 

[Baffle]

Yes. Nothing truly worth doing is easy.

Drinking?

Having a nap?

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Yes. Nothing truly worth doing is easy.

Then you should do all your work standing on one leg only.

It's harder, and therefore more worth it.

 

[Erttheking]

Yes. Nothing truly worth doing is easy.

Then you should do all your work standing on one leg only.

It's harder, and therefore more worth it.

The implication is less that difficulty is a sign of merit but rather that things that are significantly important in life tend to take effort.