Is Michael Bay pulling a "Bamboozled" with the Transformers movies?

Mr. Q

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As of late, I have been going through review videos of the Transformer movies, most notably the ones by Mathew "Film Brain" Buck and the 90+ minute audio discussion between Noah "Spoony" Antwiler and Brade "Cinema Snob" Jones.

http://blip.tv/film-brain/transformers-2-bmb-megacut-5302625

http://blip.tv/the-cinema-snob/spoony-and-brad-s-transformers-3-rant-5338043

I haven't seen Transformers: Dark of the Moon, mostly because Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen completely killed my interest in this film franchise. But, given the reviews from other Internet critics (including our own MovieBob) Dark of the Moon is nowhere near an improvement (if you don't include the cinematography getting better only because it was filmed in 3D). Despite the decline in quality, these movies have made well over 2 billion dollars worldwide. Bay himself has stated that he wishes to move onto other things but is still in the directors chair of each installment. Now, we can argue that the movie-going audience will eat this up just out of name recognition or because its target audience doesn't know a really bad movie when they see it or whatever reason. But it got me thinking of another possibility...

What if Michael Bay is pulling a "Bamboozled" with the Transformers franchise?

To get a better understanding of my question, we need to know about the movie Bamboozled. Bamboozled is a 2000 satire film directed by Spike Lee and stars Damon Wayans, Tommy Davidson, Jada Pinkett Smith, and Michael Rapaport. The movie centers around Pierre Delacroix (Wayans), a frustrated TV executive trying to get himself fired in order to escape the idiotic racist antics of his white boss Thomas Dunwitty (Rapaport). To overcome this situation, Pierre comes up with the idea of creating an extremely racist television program that is so bad, it will not only get him fired but also prove that his boss is an willfully ignorant schmuck. The problem is that the show becomes a phenomenal success that elevates Pierre and the cast of the show into super-stardom which, individually, leads to their downward spiral later in the film.

This made me ponder the notion that Michael Bay is doing the same thing with the Transformers movies. Yes, Bay said in reports that Revenge of the Fallen was bad due to the writers strike of the time. But, if that was the case, why is the 3rd installment seen as a greater step backwards? Plus, there have been reports of Bay not wanting to do anymore Transformers but still he came back for the upcoming Age of Extinction. The only reason he took the job again is because Paramount backed his pet project Pain and Gain. So it kind of makes sense, to me at least, that Bay was so fed up with being the Transformers director that he could have sabotaged the later movies but, unfortunately, the plan blew up in his face and people kept seeing these films.

This is just my theory on the matter. I could be way off and maybe Michael Bay is just a bad director/human being and Paramount doesn't know what a good movie is these days. But what do you, the people at home, think of this theory?
 

gargantual

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Like a Tupac/Suge Knight situation. If I can't get my way out this contract, I'll mega produce my way out of this contract. I often wonder this about the dragonball creator and all those filler episodes and books. They say the renaming of 'Mr. Satan' was influenced by disgust for that same supply and demand hole he got trapped in.

I wonder if MGS2's inclusion of Raiden and mirroring of shadow moses island was like a more creative form of 'bamboozled' to his direct audience. Like yeah! put down that controller! I'm talkin to yooou.

Well as far as micheal bay..I wonder if Transformers or Spiderman 3 was that turning point for all fims, where Hollywood went back into cynical mode. Sure there were bad adaptations before but that was just George Lucas and studios getting cheap with mid volume anticipation for Dukes of Hazzard. At least the biggest anticipated films of the summer had a solid plot and some decent characterization.

Now its like. Hey! Quit backseat directing!

That's why my only big anticipation is The Raid 2: Berandal.Still indie, still raw, I hear its bloodier than the first, and I heard it friggin rocked Sundance this year. Fingers crossed. Hope its released in my area this march.
 

Moderated

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gargantual said:
Like a Tupac/Suge Knight situation. If I can't get my way out this contract, I'll mega produce my way out of this contract. I often wonder this about the dragonball creator and all those filler episodes and books. They say the renaming of 'Mr. Satan' was influenced by disgust for that same supply and demand hole he got trapped in.

I wonder if MGS2's inclusion of Raiden and mirroring of shadow moses island was like a more creative form of 'bamboozled' to his direct audience. Like yeah! put down that controller! I'm talkin to yooou.

Well as far as micheal bay..I wonder if Transformers or Spiderman 3 was that turning point for all fims, where Hollywood went back into cynical mode. Sure there were bad adaptations before but that was just George Lucas and studios getting cheap with mid volume anticipation for Dukes of Hazzard. At least the biggest anticipated films of the summer had a solid plot and some decent characterization.

Now its like. Hey! Quit backseat directing!

That's why my only big anticipation is The Raid 2: Berandal.Still indie, still raw, I hear its bloodier than the first, and I heard it friggin rocked Sundance this year. Fingers crossed. Hope its released in my area this march.
His name was always Mr. Satan, they changed it in the dub for censorship. He did not make the filler episodes, he made the manga. However, if you say the Buu saga was due to this, you may have a point. I read somewhere he wanted Gohan to be the hero and for Goku to stay dead, but Goku was too popular. Suddenly for the Buu arc he went back to the lightheartedness the manga started with, which could be him getting bored of the serious tone it had taken, or what you're saying.
 

senordesol

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A lot of people give Transformers a lot of crap and...I'm not really sure why. I found those movies fun and amusing; I didn't go in expect Shakespeare, and I really just don't get the hate (sorry I don't have the two hours to spare to watch the linked vids).

I went in expecting hokey acting and a thin plot, so it was a little bit of a treat when the story bounded between the military, a dorky high-school kid, some campiness with Anthony Anderson and John Voight, plus I enjoyed that the military wasn't portrayed as complete incompetents as movies in this genre are so often wont to do.
 

gargantual

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Moderated said:
gargantual said:
Like a Tupac/Suge Knight situation. If I can't get my way out this contract, I'll mega produce my way out of this contract. I often wonder this about the dragonball creator and all those filler episodes and books. They say the renaming of 'Mr. Satan' was influenced by disgust for that same supply and demand hole he got trapped in.

I wonder if MGS2's inclusion of Raiden and mirroring of shadow moses island was like a more creative form of 'bamboozled' to his direct audience. Like yeah! put down that controller! I'm talkin to yooou.

Well as far as micheal bay..I wonder if Transformers or Spiderman 3 was that turning point for all fims, where Hollywood went back into cynical mode. Sure there were bad adaptations before but that was just George Lucas and studios getting cheap with mid volume anticipation for Dukes of Hazzard. At least the biggest anticipated films of the summer had a solid plot and some decent characterization.

Now its like. Hey! Quit backseat directing!

That's why my only big anticipation is The Raid 2: Berandal.Still indie, still raw, I hear its bloodier than the first, and I heard it friggin rocked Sundance this year. Fingers crossed. Hope its released in my area this march.
His name was always Mr. Satan, they changed it in the dub for censorship. He did not make the filler episodes, he made the manga. However, if you say the Buu saga was due to this, you may have a point. I read somewhere he wanted Gohan to be the hero and for Goku to stay dead, but Goku was too popular. Suddenly for the Buu arc he went back to the lightheartedness the manga started with, which could be him getting bored of the serious tone it had taken, or what you're saying.
That's right. I always thought it awkward how Gohan was deffering and said. nah. I just want to be a doctor. I'm like...after all you accomplished?! A friend of mine who is a die hard piccolo fan said the uniform was jinxed. He took off the kami purples and put roshi's dojo uniform on again. Started getting all soft.

Back to this Bamboozled point tho. It reminds me of how Skyfall ended with Naomi Harris as Moneypenny just accepting the desk job. I get its the anniversary of Bond and all the lore had to fit in place, but you notice these two defferments of accepting a greater combat responsiblity or role from Gohan in DBZ and Moneypenny in Skyfall and wonder how similar this behind the scenes problem is. The demand was so big it crushed the creator's vision. Ain't that right OT?
 

HardkorSB

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senordesol said:
A lot of people give Transformers a lot of crap and...I'm not really sure why. I found those movies fun and amusing; I didn't go in expect Shakespeare, and I really just don't get the hate (sorry I don't have the two hours to spare to watch the linked vids).

I went in expecting hokey acting and a thin plot, so it was a little bit of a treat when the story bounded between the military, a dorky high-school kid, some campiness with Anthony Anderson and John Voight, plus I enjoyed that the military wasn't portrayed as complete incompetents as movies in this genre are so often wont to do.
It's fun to hate things, especially popular things.

Mr. Q said:
This is just my theory on the matter. I could be way off and maybe Michael Bay is just a bad director/human being and Paramount doesn't know what a good movie is these days. But what do you, the people at home, think of this theory?
Bay's movies get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much hate.

The first Transformers was a decent action movie with stock but servicable characters and some hit or miss humor.
The mistake they made was they took these characters which have served their purpose and kept going with them. They went through their arcs in the first movie and in the second, they became annoying. Same thing in the third but even more annoying. The cast should have been changed with each movie.
The third one had the best action sequences (the part in the building that breaks in half is awesome) and the storyline with "Spock-bot" (I forgot what his name was) was good but 90% of human characters could have (and should have) been removed (half of them were comic relief anyway), giving more time to establish the personality of the Transformers.

Bay's crew also doesn't know what "politically correct" means so some characters made people angry. That wouldn't be a problem in movies like Bad Boys or Pain and Gain but in a franchise primarily targeted at kids and young adults, it may cause some problems among the more sensitive people. I still think that people overreacted to this.

I'm glad they got rid of the old cast and got a new one for the next movie. Hope it will be ok.
 

Olas

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Only if Bay's entire career is an enourmous 'bamboozled'. It's not just the transformers films, his entire filmography is the same over-the-top, but not in a self aware way, action shenanigans mixed with dumb humor. The only movie where he even tried to do something different is Pearl Harbor, and there's a reason I said "tried".
 

Uhura

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senordesol said:
A lot of people give Transformers a lot of crap and...I'm not really sure why. I found those movies fun and amusing; I didn't go in expect Shakespeare, and I really just don't get the hate.
I don't think anyone expects Shakespeare from Bay. I think people were expecting competent action movies and didn't feel like that's what they got. I watched the first Transformers movie a few years ago and I was bored out of my mind, especially during the action scenes.
 

Loonyyy

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Uhura said:
senordesol said:
A lot of people give Transformers a lot of crap and...I'm not really sure why. I found those movies fun and amusing; I didn't go in expect Shakespeare, and I really just don't get the hate.
I don't think anyone expects Shakespeare from Bay. I think people were expecting competent action movies and didn't feel like that's what they got. I watched the first Transformers movie a few years ago and I was bored out of my mind, especially during the action scenes.
That the dude can make hundreds of litres of gasoline exploding boring, is incredible. It's a rare talent. Just not one that I'd think would be so marketable.
 

ron1n

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Well the next movie won't feature Shia LeFail or Megan Fox so that's already a step up.

And for the record, if Pain and Gain came about as a result of him committing to one more Transformers movie, then it was almost worth it as Pain and Gain was hilarious.
 

Souplex

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The plot of "Bamboozled" sounds like a remake of "The Producers", just replace attempting to get fired with attempting to cheat investors via shady finances.
 

VonBrewskie

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Kind of unrelated by your post got me thinking. The plot of Bamboozled seems a lot like a rip-off of The Producers (the Mel Brooks movie) to me. That's all.
 

Millky95

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I enjoy the Transformer movies a lot. I think the biggest gripe at times is the lack of Transformers and too much of a focus with the humans and the humans aren't overly amazing characters. The biggest issue people had is that in Revenge of the Fallen, the script blew and it was washy. They seem to forget it was around the time of the writers strike. Also in the TF fandom, if it isn't G1 (the original TV show, so Truck Prime, Gun Megatron etc) [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_Transformers_(cartoon)] then it's shit. [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ruined_forever].

I honestly think people need to go into the Transformers movies with more of an open mind. It's not a movie that'll grip you with characters and make you fall in love with them or make you cry or will have an evolving plot that has amazing twists. I believe it's the type of movie you see to escape. Forget about the problems at work or home and watch robots fight and blow stuff up. Some characters are funny too though.

I saw all this as I look at my $2000-3000 Transformer collection...
 

major_chaos

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Yea no, I'm thinking Bay is just a terrible, terrible director, not to mention kind of an awful person. I didn't go into transformers expecting Shakespeare, I went in expecting a competent action movie where giant robots blow shit up. What I actually got was an incompetent comedy that makes Adam Sandler look like Shakespere by comparison, primarily staring insufferable humans.

Its really sad that the damn children's cartoon (Transformers Prime) managed to have better action, better acting, better story, and infinitely more interesting characters than the three huge budget PG-13 Hollywood blockbusters put together.
 

Millky95

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major_chaos said:
Yea no, I'm thinking Bay is just a terrible, terrible director, not to mention kind of an awful person. I didn't go into transformers expecting Shakespeare, I went in expecting a competent action movie where giant robots blow shit up. What I actually got was an incompetent comedy that makes Adam Sandler look like Shakespere by comparison, primarily staring insufferable humans.

Its really sad that the damn children's cartoon (Transformers Prime) managed to have better action, better acting, better story, and infinitely more interesting characters than the three huge budget PG-13 Hollywood blockbusters put together.
Beast Wars which was done like, pre-2000 is better than Prime. I highly recommend

Captcha:
Let go
I will not. It's an awesome cartoon
 

Uhura

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Loonyyy said:
That the dude can make hundreds of litres of gasoline exploding boring, is incredible. It's a rare talent. Just not one that I'd think would be so marketable.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I was watching the movie. 'How is it possible that I'm this bored watching non-stop action and explosions? Fascinating.'
I think I was surprised by the poor quality of the film also because Bay has directed a few solid action movies (The Rock and Bad Boys) earlier in his career.
 

Something Amyss

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Souplex said:
The plot of "Bamboozled" sounds like a remake of "The Producers", just replace attempting to get fired with attempting to cheat investors via shady finances.
VonBrewskie said:
Kind of unrelated by your post got me thinking. The plot of Bamboozled seems a lot like a rip-off of The Producers (the Mel Brooks movie) to me. That's all.
You guys just happened to post back to back. I am amused.

But yeah. Sounds quite similar. And too clever for Michael Bay.

HardkorSB said:
It's fun to hate things, especially popular things.
You know what would have been more fun? A fun movie. As others have said, Bay managed to take the rather simple proposition of "big stompy robots fight other big stompy robots" and make it boring.

The first Transformers was a decent action movie with stock but servicable characters and some hit or miss humor.
The first one was the least boring, I'll grant you that.
 

senordesol

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Uhura said:
senordesol said:
A lot of people give Transformers a lot of crap and...I'm not really sure why. I found those movies fun and amusing; I didn't go in expect Shakespeare, and I really just don't get the hate.
I don't think anyone expects Shakespeare from Bay. I think people were expecting competent action movies and didn't feel like that's what they got. I watched the first Transformers movie a few years ago and I was bored out of my mind, especially during the action scenes.
Really? I had the opposite response. When the Rangers (or were they Deltas?) were fighting Scorpinok(sp?)and had to fudge with creating a cell plan at the same time; I thought that was both amusing and exciting. When John Voight was fighting the decepticons with a DB Shotgun; also hysterical and fun. And, I'm just gonna say it, I was down with the military Pr0n. Those look like some fun toys.
 

VonBrewskie

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Souplex said:
The plot of "Bamboozled" sounds like a remake of "The Producers", just replace attempting to get fired with attempting to cheat investors via shady finances.
I like the way you think homie. Great minds think alike huh?
 

Loonyyy

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Uhura said:
Loonyyy said:
That the dude can make hundreds of litres of gasoline exploding boring, is incredible. It's a rare talent. Just not one that I'd think would be so marketable.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I was watching the movie. 'How is it possible that I'm this bored watching non-stop action and explosions? Fascinating.'
I think I was surprised by the poor quality of the film also because Bay has directed a few solid action movies (The Rock and Bad Boys) earlier in his career.
Recently "Pain & Gain" was pretty good too. Which was especially weird, since it seemed to take aim squarely at American exceptionalism and douchebags. And for Mr. "Merica" Bay, "purveyor of douchebag cinema" to do that takes some balls.

If Bay would stop with the giant military set pieces (Because these don't make good action scenes, at least the way he films them [You can make a good scene out of proper military fare, but that's entirely a different style. Black Hawk Down or Tears of the Sun can simultaneously show off the military whilst giving weight, and tension to action]), and give some development to characters who are actually interesting, maybe he'd make a tolerable action film. I really don't care for more of the white guy with brown hair and stuble action hero and his black sergeant hiding in cover and shooting at robots, whilst the pile of whining and pus that is Shia LeDouche runs around doing something to further the plot completely unrelated to the action, whilst Michael Bay tries to exploit in the creepiest manner whoever's been unfortunate enough to be roped in as leading lady.