Is Nintendo becoming irrelevant?

[Andy Shandy]

They've moneyhatted Platinum so they won't be irrelevant for me at least. And Sonic too. Pokemon on the handhelds as well.

I struggle to give a flying fuck about the 20 Mario games a year though.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Isn't this just like your other thread?

I think most of what you're looking for was already answered there. I don't think Nintendo are going anywhere myself or at least I think it's a bit too soon to tell.

Yeah this seems remarkably similar to your other thread VG_Addict.
*sigh*
Anyway no, irrelevant isn't the word I would use. I certainly think they've lost their touch, but I don't think they're going anywhere. At least not yet.

 

[MrMixelPixel]

I love coming to see these threads, just watch j-e-f-f-e-r-s work his magic.

OT: I don' think so. Not to me anyway. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want a 3DS. The 3D aspect is kind of irrelevant, but game library is great. It'll likely only get better.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Well the thing is they took a radically different approach, and for one generation it worked. Casual and non gamers bought into it, and hardcore gamers bought into it. The thing is I think they lost a lot of customer loyalty with that. Casual and non gamers don't need the latest cutting edge gaming technology and don't feel the need to upgrade, and a huge portion of the hardcore crowd who bought a wii ended up using the thing as dust storage and probably don't have much interest in their next console (especially without a proper new Mario or Zelda yet.)

Also we've seen what happened because of the wii's inferior technology and it's happening again with the wiiu. Multiplatform games generally won't be ported to the Wiiu because they would have to accommodate the lack of processing power and different control scheme. Even if it builds up a really good exclusive library, it has to compete with all the other console exclusives as well as the multiplatform games that both other consoles and PC can play.

That doesn't mean it's completely out, nintendo has an insane amount of brand recognition, and most people still like their marios and zeldas, but yeah, on the console front consumer interest as a whole is definitely shifting away from them and they'll have to do quite a bit to prevent it.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I love coming to see these threads, just watch j-e-f-f-e-r-s work his magic.

OT: I don' think so. Not to me anyway. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want a 3DS. The 3D aspect is kind of irrelevant, but game library is great. It'll likely only get better.

I think the OP said he was talking about consoles, but yeah handhelds seem to be the market they do the best in. Maybe they should try to shift their focus to that, or even have the next console be a handheld that comes with integration for tv displays.

 

[Cat Cloud]

I think it's hard to understand the attraction of a system if you don't own one. I like my Wii, partly because I'm able to find games for it that I enjoy and wouldn't be able to get otherwise. Yes, the WiiU isn't doing well right now, but that doesn't mean it's dead, systems don't die like people do. After a while they'll get Super Smash Bros, Fire Emblem vs SMT, Earthbound, and X.

Part of it is that there are some franchises like SMT and Fire Emblem and even Kingdom Hearts that have been focusing more on handhelds and Nintendo consoles recently. So while Nintendo doesn't get the big brand name games that come out for every other system under the sun, pc included, they do get other exclusive games. It can be hard to understand this if you aren't involved or invested in the systems already, and easy to dismiss it as childish and irrelevant.

What I think is weird is people claiming that nintendo games should come out for ios. Have they played the games on Nintendo's systems? They wouldn't translate well button wise, and ios sells games that require low commitment levels and complexity, 8 year olds won't want to play expansive and punishing dungeon crawlers and strategy games on their parents' phones....

 

[bug_of_war]

Which is fine as far as I'm concerned. If they wan't to focus on being the source of gaming for children, and family oriented stuff, that's fine by me. Some of the stories I've heard, about how the Nintendo systems have been installed in nursing homes, and the residents start up digital gaming, bowling leagues. Where they are now getting more exercise, social interaction, as well as something fun to do with their grandkids when they visit. Which I think is awesome. If they want to also focus on game systems for children, with the kind of games that kids always want to play? Well, that's fine with me. I'm not going to buy their products, simply because of my personal interests in gaming, but I won't begrudge them focusing their stuff that way.

Yeah, I don't see why people seem to want Nintendo to fall. They're a good game company, and while there's no way in hell I'mma buy a Wii U, that's not cause I hate them, it's cause I don't like any of the games that are released on the console. From what you said about the Wii and Wii U being put in nursing homes and it's effects, I think Nintendo should be held in high respect for making a console for people of all ages, literally.

 

[Lightknight]

It seems that the Escapist is kind of wrapped up in their own little bubble where they assume just because the majority of the community is no longer into a specific thing, it means it's no longer "relevant" to the gamer community as a whole.

If by "community" you mean the gamer consumer market as a whole. Then yes. The Escapist is kind of wrapped up in how the consumer market is responding to Nintendo's recent product.

 

[Raikas]

Kids just don't buy two games and call it a day.
They are going to want more games to play.

There is only so much enjoyment one can get out of a single game before they go for something else.

My sister plays Minecraft religiously. Yet it didn't stop her from asking my parents to get her a 3DS just so she can play Animal Crossing.

When you're looking at the kid's market, it's not actually the kids who buy the games, it's the parents - that the kid is asking for something is still providing pressure to buy, but is there enough of a marketing push to convince the parent to actually hand over the cash?

I don't know the answer (I haven't seen any statistics that point to a definite trend one way or the other), but personally I do have a number of friends who are doing things like giving their kid their old phone or letting them use the family tablet in place of buying a dedicated handheld. That's not enough to prove that there's a trend of course, but those people are certainly out there and the ultimate question will be what percentage of the potential market they represent.

 

[Dragonbums]

Kids just don't buy two games and call it a day.
They are going to want more games to play.

There is only so much enjoyment one can get out of a single game before they go for something else.

My sister plays Minecraft religiously. Yet it didn't stop her from asking my parents to get her a 3DS just so she can play Animal Crossing.

When you're looking at the kid's market, it's not actually the kids who buy the games, it's the parents - that the kid is asking for something is still providing pressure to buy, but is there enough of a marketing push to convince the parent to actually hand over the cash?

I don't know the answer (I haven't seen any statistics that point to a definite trend one way or the other), but personally I do have a number of friends who are doing things like giving their kid their old phone or letting them use the family tablet in place of buying a dedicated handheld. That's not enough to prove that there's a trend of course, but those people are certainly out there and the ultimate question will be what percentage of the potential market they represent.

Yes?
Minecraft costs $20.00 a good amount of parents are okay with such a price. Especially for a sandbox game like Minecraft.
And most parents are more than willing to buy devices like a 3DS during the holiday season.

 

[Dragonbums]

It seems that the Escapist is kind of wrapped up in their own little bubble where they assume just because the majority of the community is no longer into a specific thing, it means it's no longer "relevant" to the gamer community as a whole.

If by "community" you mean the gamer consumer market as a whole. Then yes. The Escapist is kind of wrapped up in how the consumer market is responding to Nintendo's recent product.

No.
They view the general opinion of how Escapist users view the product, then basically say that's how it's gonna work.

A lot of users on the Escapist play games predominately on their I pad. They see no use for the 3DS, then make claims that the 3DS is being killed by smartphones despite the fact that the handheld is doing just as well as it's predecessor.

Then they say that kids like Angry Birds, and that somehow means that they aren't going to buy any other games except Angry Birds because apparently kids are like slot machines where they only care about one game and that is it until they grow up.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Nintendo will never die. Because Nintendo keep rehashing all of their would-be lifeless franchises (how many times can you tell, "Italian guy saves chick from lizard thing with implied intentions to molest her") and they just won't let their games die.

Even the Mario RPG games are coming to a halt, and Paper Mario isn't even and RPG anymore.

Until they start actually writing something new nothing will change. Not until something as good as Paper Mario 2 or Majora's Mask.

 

[Raikas]

Yes?
Minecraft costs $20.00 a good amount of parents are okay with such a price. Especially for a sandbox game like Minecraft.
And most parents are more than willing to buy devices like a 3DS during the holiday season.

Yes to which question?

Are lots of people willing to buy Minecraft? Yeah, I totally believe that - virtually all my friends and coworkers who have kids (aside from a couple who are on the no games/no tv bench) have kids who play it. However not all of those people have bought handhelds for their kids - even the ones who own older handhelds of their own. Again, I don't know what the overall trends are, but I don't for a minute believe that people are equally willing to buy a $20 game that can be played on a a piece of hardware that they already own versus a $160+ dedicated handheld.

I don't think you can honestly claim that "most" parents are willing to buy something like a 3DS in a general way - that's something that I'm certain is going to vary a lot depending on things like location and income and age (of the parents, but also of their children).

 

[Dragonbums]

Yes?
Minecraft costs $20.00 a good amount of parents are okay with such a price. Especially for a sandbox game like Minecraft.
And most parents are more than willing to buy devices like a 3DS during the holiday season.

Yes to which question?

Are lots of people willing to buy Minecraft? Yeah, I totally believe that - virtually all my friends and coworkers who have kids (aside from a couple who are on the no games/no tv bench) have kids who play it. However not all of those people have bought handhelds for their kids - even the ones who own older handhelds of their own. Again, I don't know what the overall trends are, but I don't for a minute believe that people are equally willing to buy a $20 game that can be played on a a piece of hardware that they already own versus a $160+ dedicated handheld.

I don't think you can honestly claim that "most" parents are willing to buy something like a 3DS in a general way - that's something that I'm certain is going to vary a lot depending on things like location and income and age (of the parents, but also of their children).

You yourself just said that most of the parents who didn't buy their kids a 3DS already have a 3DS themselves. That make sense. Why would you buy two of the same handhelds when you can just easily give it to your kid for use?
Again, you also ignore the holiday season where kids get such devices as gifts, and they get enough money from relatives and friends to buy the system themselves and/or additional games for them.
I don't know why you got such an alien concept that a parent is willing to shell out $300+ dollars for an Iphone or a blasted I pad, but they aren't willing to shell out $130-300 dollars on the three choices of 3DS models.
I don't even know why people are willing to bet that parents are going to buy their kids the PS4 and/or Xbox One, but are not willing to buy their kids a handheld much cheaper than that.

Where is the sense in that?

The amount of people who went out of their way just to get Animal Crossing: New Leaf was insane. That franchise isn't even really their flagship title.

I already know 3DS/2DS hardware are going to fly off shelves when Pokemon X and Y hits stores all around the globe.

Does all of this depend on income and age? Well of course.

However Nintendo is far from losing the child demographics to a single game called Minecraft and Angry Birds.

 

[Raikas]

You yourself just said that most of the parents who didn't buy their kids a 3DS already have a 3DS themselves. That make sense. Why would you buy two of the same handhelds when you can just easily give it to your kid for use?

No, I said that some parents who already own an older handheld (a DS, a PSP, still own their old GameBoy) haven't bought a 3DS.

Again, you also ignore the holiday season where kids get such devices as gifts, and they get enough money from relatives and friends to buy the system themselves and/or additional games for them.

I'm not ignoring that, that shows up when the sales figures jump seasonably. I didn't mention it because it's true of virtually every consumer product - the sales of any gift item is going to jump during the holidays - it's not unique to handhelds (or to consumer electronics).

I don't know why you got such an alien concept that a parent is willing to shell out $300+ dollars for an Iphone or a blasted I pad, but they aren't willing to shell out $130-300 dollars on the three choices of 3DS models.

I think you're conflating two points. For example: my brother-in-law has a 10-year-old son. When his son wanted something to play games on, he gave him his old phone. So he actually wasn't spending $300 on a new phone for his kid - he was upgrading his own phone and passing the old one along. Buying a handheld would have been more on top of that.

Similarly, my neighbours have two kids - a 7 year-old son and a 5-year-old daughter. The kids take turns playing Minecraft on the family tablet. Again, they didn't buy the tablet as a gaming device for the kids - they already use it for themselves, and to show the kids videos when they're in the car and so on. So again: there's the cost of the game, but there's no new item to purchase.

I don't even know why people are willing to bet that parents are going to buy their kids the PS4 and/or Xbox One, but are not willing to buy their kids a handheld much cheaper than that.

Where is the sense in that?

It comes down to the multi-purpose factor again. I know a fair number of people who bought a Wii both for the kids and for the adults to use the WiiFit, or who bought a PS3 both for gaming and for a blu-ray player, or who bought a 360 that the whole family uses.

Does all of this depend on income and age? Well of course.

If you're aware that there's variance in who purchases these things, then why argue that "most" people are happy to throw money at something?

Look, I'm not one of the people who thinks that Nintendo is going anywhere - to my mind they have a good grasp on their target markets and more importantly, they've targeted a couple of groups that are ignored by other consoles. But that said, I don't think you can talk about mobile gaming without acknowledging how non-gaming-specific devices have changed the market lately.

 

[Lightknight]

It seems that the Escapist is kind of wrapped up in their own little bubble where they assume just because the majority of the community is no longer into a specific thing, it means it's no longer "relevant" to the gamer community as a whole.

If by "community" you mean the gamer consumer market as a whole. Then yes. The Escapist is kind of wrapped up in how the consumer market is responding to Nintendo's recent product.

No.
They view the general opinion of how Escapist users view the product, then basically say that's how it's gonna work.

A lot of users on the Escapist play games predominately on their I pad. They see no use for the 3DS, then make claims that the 3DS is being killed by smartphones despite the fact that the handheld is doing just as well as it's predecessor.

Then they say that kids like Angry Birds, and that somehow means that they aren't going to buy any other games except Angry Birds because apparently kids are like slot machines where they only care about one game and that is it until they grow up.

Hmm, I consider Nintendo's performance in the handheld market to be quite strong. Any comments I make towards Nintendo's fall from the forefront is strictly regarding the home console market. I'd say that any handheld is at risk of the iOS though. But the 3DS is a cheaper alternative to an iPad for kids and the content is curated for children. So it will remain relevant and even necessary unless you're a tech head like me who can tighten down iOS security faster than.. well.. some kind of fast tightener downer of some sort.

 

[Dragonbums]

-snip-

It's not throwing money at something if they see it is worth buying.

There are two conflicting opinions on this site in regards to the handhelds.

1. Most people would rather buy their kids smartphones and tablets (at the same or higher price point.)

2. Most will not buy their kids exclusive handhelds.

It's conflicting as hell.

What I'm trying to say is, the smartphone market will affect the 3DS.

However I don't see it as the handheld killer as most people are saying it is.

 

[Dragonbums]

It seems that the Escapist is kind of wrapped up in their own little bubble where they assume just because the majority of the community is no longer into a specific thing, it means it's no longer "relevant" to the gamer community as a whole.

If by "community" you mean the gamer consumer market as a whole. Then yes. The Escapist is kind of wrapped up in how the consumer market is responding to Nintendo's recent product.

No.
They view the general opinion of how Escapist users view the product, then basically say that's how it's gonna work.

A lot of users on the Escapist play games predominately on their I pad. They see no use for the 3DS, then make claims that the 3DS is being killed by smartphones despite the fact that the handheld is doing just as well as it's predecessor.

Then they say that kids like Angry Birds, and that somehow means that they aren't going to buy any other games except Angry Birds because apparently kids are like slot machines where they only care about one game and that is it until they grow up.

Hmm, I consider Nintendo's performance in the handheld market to be quite strong. Any comments I make towards Nintendo's fall from the forefront is strictly regarding the home console market. I'd say that any handheld is at risk of the iOS though. But the 3DS is a cheaper alternative to an iPad for kids and the content is curated for children. So it will remain relevant and even necessary unless you're a tech head like me who can tighten down iOS security faster than.. well.. some kind of fast tightener downer of some sort.

I'm not a tech head, so I don't know about the whole iOS security thing. All though it wouldn't surprise me if it was garbage.

I just don't think that the iOS is going to kill handhelds.
It will just never really be as high as it used to. And at the rate the 3DS is going it will be just as popular as the original line.

It's like I said in an earlier post- consoles didn't die because PC's existed. They ended up co-existing with each other quite well. Because while more people have PC's- the a much smaller amount use it for gaming. Yet alone professional/high tech gaming.

Same thing with tablets and smartphones. Both of their primary objectives are being phones, and simplifying common computer tasks. While a huge pool of those users play games on it- they are tiny like Angry Birds, and most folks would want more. Only a small portion (compared to the huge pool. This isn't to say they are miniscule) of people play those extensive iOS games. At the end of the day, both those markets will balance themselves out and manage to co exist with only small competition between them. It's basically the handhelds version of a PC in regards to gaming.

 

[Dragonbums]

You people from the Nintendo defense force are so silly in your delusions, you don't know how funny it is.

Handheld console sales are falling continually and rapidly while phone use is rising and you won't see it.
"B...but Japan will save the day!"

I'm pretty sure you need a phone. Of course phone sales will always outmatch hand held sales. That is how it's been since the beginning of ever. You are treating it like phone users just came out of nowhere and are here to kill handhelds. Phones are a necessity. A smartphone is no different because it's a phone.
Like, this doesn't even make any blasted sense. What exactly does that prove?
Most people are going to have a phone than a handheld? Like...yes? Of course?

Guess what?
The entire video game market (consoles and handhelds) is a $4.6 billion industry in Japan: http://www.serkantoto.com/2013/04/07/japan-video-game-market-growth/

So you say handheld gaming is failing rapidly...and then link news about how videogames are a multi billion dollar industry...what are you debating here?

According to data released by Tokyo-based game magazine publisher Enterbrain (published in business daily The Nikkei over the weekend), the Japanese market for video games grew 1.2% to US$4.6 billion in fiscal 2012 ? which ended on March 31, 2013.

That's great. Explain again what your arguing here. videogames are falling? Or videogames are succeeding?

"B...but nobody is playing games on their phones, they have the Nintendo 3DS for that!"

Where did I claim nobody was playing games on their phones? Did I not just admit to having Angry Birds on my own smartphone? Stop putting words in my mouth.

Well, you are wrong, in fact the "mobile games market" in Japan is larger than the entire console games market: http://www.serkantoto.com/2013/08/12/japan-mobile-content-games-market/

Yes. Console sales in general have been steadily declining in Japan. That is bad news for Sony and Microsoft as well. For some reason however you seem to think this only affects Nintendo.

Oh and also when Animal Crossing: New Leaf came out, Nintendo literally ran out of copies of the game http://www.destructoid.com/animal-crossing-sold-out-in-japan-chaos-likely-to-ensue-239618.phtml

They also saw a double increase in 3DS sales because those same people with smartphones were willing to shell out $250.00 for hardware just to get Animal Crossing http://www.polygon.com/2012/11/14/3645506/animal-crossing-boosts-3ds-sales-in-japan-while-vita-hits-record-low

Size Of Japan?s Market For Mobile Content Reaches US$8.8 Billion In 2012. Games: US$5.1 Billion.

Japan?s Mobile Content Forum (MCF) has issued a new report that includes a number of interesting statistics on this country?s mobile industry.

According to the MCF, Japan?s market for mobile gaming reached roughly US$5.1 billion in 2012.

Once again, it is completely obvious that more people are going to choose phones over handhelds. You need phones. You need them in emergencies. You need them to text. You need them to check your email. You need them to contact your friends/relatives/clients. To think that anyone thought that handhelds will outsell phones is ridiculous. Everyone has a phone. I have a phone, you have a phone, we all have a blasted phone. Not only that, more and more phones are starting to implement basic smartphone features like games because as the years go by it get's cheaper to do. Again, not something that is really going to affect the 3DS because most of those games are either garbage or light weight time wasters.

In regards to global spending: http://allthingsd.com/20130821/google-play-skates-into-second-place-in-mobile-gamer-spending-past-nintendo-and-sonys-handhelds/

Mobile gaming and handheld gaming are different markets with a bit of overlap. That overlap being that both devices can be held easily in your hands.

If the 3DS can sell 42 million and track closely behind it's predecessor due to success even with Google Play reaching second place in mobile gaming (something Sony and Nintendo aren't even really in.) then good for them. That hardly affects them.

Ever wonder why Square Enix decided to "concentrate on Smartphones more"? This is why.

No. The reason why Squeenix want to go all digital is because they spend too much fucking money into making their games, and expect CoD level of returns instead of making realistic sales predictions. Their last Tomb Raider game by all accounts sold beautifully yet despite that they said the game was a financial flop.
Why? Because they spent too much goddamn money on making the game that not even 5 million and sales can cover everything. However instead of seeing themselves as the problem they are simply blaming it on disk sales. Which is dumb as shit because most people know it has nothing to do with that. They just want to find another scapegoat.

The people claiming these things about Nintendo are looking at what is actually happening, Wii U was based on a gimmick nobody asked for or wanted (as opposed to the first Wii) and bad marketing: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.377960-Will-the-Wii-U-fail-horribly

Just like everyone said for the 3DS. Now it's selling. The Wii U is hurting from bad marketing. You say that no one asked for tablet functionality yet at the same time I see Sony and Microsoft bragging about how their consoles can connect to...wait for it...your tablets and smartphones. Yeah. Nobody asked for those either.

Meanwhile handheld sales are on a decline generally and are being ousted more and more by smartphone gaming each year.

They seem to be doing just fine.

They haven't played out all their hands (they could go 3rd party for other consoles or try to also enter the smartphone market

Nobody on the tablet business are willing to shell out $35.00 for a game. Plus buttons give way more precision than a touch screen.


,

they could licenses their franchises or similar) but if they remain stubborn in their market approach that is indeed the best way to irrelevancy.

I don't expect Sony to start licensing their handheld IP's to Nintendo. I'm not going to expect Nintendo to do the same.
This is the same song and dance of idiocy that rabid Nintendo doomers have been hoping for since the dawn of 1999. You would think they would get tired of this already.

 

[Raikas]

It's not throwing money at something if they see it is worth buying.

Eh, personally I call all entertainment spending to be throwing money around - we don't need any of this stuff.

There are two conflicting opinions on this site in regards to the handhelds.

1. Most people would rather buy their kids smartphones and tablets (at the same or higher price point.)

2. Most will not buy their kids exclusive handhelds.

It's conflicting as hell.

Those two ideas can be complimentary - they don't conflict at all. Personally I think anyone talking about what "most" people will do without having numbers to back it up are just making assumptions, but those two assumptions aren't at odds with each other.

What I'm trying to say is, the smartphone market will affect the 3DS.

However I don't see it as the handheld killer as most people are saying it is.

That's not different from what I said (although I was commenting on the market for dedicated handheld gaming devices in general and not specifically about the 3DS). Talking about how smartphones and tablets have changed the nature of the handheld market is not the same as predicting the death of that market.