Is Patriotism and Loyalty impeding progress?

[heyheysg]

For a person to be born a citizen is a pretty abitary process, if your parents happen to be within a certain geographical boundary you become a citizen of that country.

You will also likely speak the native language of that country, dislike your neighbours separated at the borders, practice the common religion, might have a fierce loyalty to defend the rights of your citizens, your government and even die for your country.

But why? It's totally random, you could be born in Africa, China, USA etc
But we're all People, Humankind.

Yet patriotism dictates that we must hate somebody on the other side of the fence, people who are not of our tribe want to kill us, steal our women and pillage our resources.

But that's not true, most people just want to live a peaceful and normal life.

 

[Curtmiester]

You seemed to have stumbled on the questions that are impossible to answer good sir. It's all about what you believe in and alot of the time, other don't agree with you. Why? Because it makes sense to them. Just as what you believe makes sense to you.
In short, intellegence sucks.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Because that is the way things are, and it will not end. Because the nation-state works as a means of social cohesion, and trying to unmake it results in anarchy and chaos. Also, because people raised in a different culture invariably have different values to ours, and thus cannot be trusted. And a number of other factors.

 

[PieMaker]

I believe the OP is confusing nationalism with patriotism. Both almost mean the same, though patriotism does not follow dictates from anyone and is best seen when questioning members of authority in said country.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Misplaced loyalty and hyper patriotism impedes progress.

The last time I looked, being patriotic did not involve actively hating your neighbours. It's just taking pride in your country or culture. I see nothing wrong with that and I'm as patriotic as a hermit crab.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

Patriotism means you love your country, not that you hate all others. I love being an American, but that doesn't mean I hate Germany, Australia, Mexico, Canada, or France. Alright, France is a bad example, but you get my point. I can love milk without hating apple juice. I can enjoy partaking in milk and not want to stop someone else from drinking apple juice. I just prefer milk.

Yes, sometimes people do stupid things in the name of "love." That doesn't mean we should get rid of it.

 

[Knight Templar]

Loyalty is not hating others but trusting them, and I value loyalty in a person.
As for patriotism, it's too often twisted for me to feel positive about it, but good at heart so I don't hate it.

 

[Kaboose the Moose]

Diversity doesn't necessarily equate to harmony. With so many different cultures and beliefs there is always the situation where people from one side of the fence will misunderstand or misinterpret the intentions of those on the other side. People will always fear what they don't know, as well as things beyond their control. This only results in suspicion and mistrust and so, tension and conflict is never far behind.

 

[Semitendon]

For a person to be born a citizen is a pretty abitary process, if your parents happen to be within a certain geographical boundary you become a citizen of that country.

You will also likely speak the native language of that country, dislike your neighbours separated at the borders, practice the common religion, might have a fierce loyalty to defend the rights of your citizens, your government and even die for your country.

But why? It's totally random, you could be born in Africa, China, USA etc
But we're all People, Humankind.

Yet patriotism dictates that we must hate somebody on the other side of the fence, people who are not of our tribe want to kill us, steal our women and pillage our resources.

But that's not true, most people just want to live a peaceful and normal life.

I don't think so. I don't know where you live, or who you talk to, but you aren't talking about patriotism.

Patriotism does not dictate that you must hate your neighors, or anyone for that matter. I live in America, and would be considered "patriotic" by most. I don't hate anyone because they are from a different country, I hate them because of who that INDIVIDUAL person is. Kim Jong-Il is a perfect example. I don't hate him because he's Korean, I hate him because he's bat-shit insane and dangerous to everyone.

Furthermore, Patriotism is taking pride in one's CULTURE and style of civilization. A country that has citizens that don't care about their government, lifestyle, or culture, is doomed to FAIL.

 

[inglioti]

patriotism doesn't imply xenophobia, although the two are usually lumped together.

 

[Downfall89]

Patriotism means you love your country, not that you hate all others. I love being an American, but that doesn't mean I hate Germany, Australia, Mexico, Canada, or France. Alright, France is a bad example, but you get my point. I can love milk without hating apple juice. I can enjoy partaking in milk and not want to stop someone else from drinking apple juice. I just prefer milk.

Yes, sometimes people do stupid things in the name of "love." That doesn't mean we should get rid of it.

I wish everyone in America was like you.

 

[LongAndShort]

I wouldn't say patriotism impedes progress, xenophobia does. Patriotism can be a force for good, bringing people together for a common goal. Yes sometimes that goal is destroying a neighbour, but it may be building great works or solving world issues or hosting a sporting event.

 

[SonicWaffle]

patriotism doesn't imply xenophobia, although the two are usually lumped together.

Patriotism is fine, but what usually happens is that the government of the time uses it as a tool. The second world war, for example - it was "patriotic" to hate the Germans.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Is it patriotism or fanaticism? Best we identify the behavior and select the appropriate descriptor before we argue whether or not it stands in the path of societal progress.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, people use a blanket label of "patriotism" to dismiss the claims that they are xenophobic morons? Sort of like how college kids will spout a load of crap and then hide behind "well, smart people believe this" when asked to support their positions.

Patriotism seems to be at present a method of control or manipulation used by the government.

 

[inglioti]

patriotism doesn't imply xenophobia, although the two are usually lumped together.

Patriotism is fine, but what usually happens is that the government of the time uses it as a tool. The second world war, for example - it was "patriotic" to hate the Germans.

the same post 9/11. the same during the witch hunts of the 50's, and the russians, and communists... america has an isolationist history that dates back to colonisation.

 

[Gashad]

It is a thin line between loving your country and culture and believing it to be better then everyone else. Ultimately patriotism (or nationalism if we are to stop using euphemisms) is completely irrational, being born into a country gives me no right to be proud of its achievements, as I have contributed nothing to them. However I would say its to deep roted to be removed completely(I for instance am aware of the irrationality of nationalism, yet wouldn't describe myself as entirely unnationalistic).

Moreover just like religion it is only in its more extreme form that it causes great harm(such as during the Yugoslavian war, and to a certain extent world war I and II). In conclusion I would say that patriotism is no virtue, completely irrational but unfortunately its part of human nature, hence we will have to live with it(while steering away from its more extreme forms)

 

[DarkLordofDevon]

snip

I have long believed we need to unite as 1 species for the greater good. If people were less worried about being 'American' or 'English' or 'Russian' etc. we'd be much better off.

 

[Amnestic]

Misplaced loyalty and hyper patriotism impedes progress.

The last time I looked, being patriotic did not involve actively hating your neighbours. It's just taking pride in your country or culture. I see nothing wrong with that and I'm as patriotic as a hermit crab.

As patriotic as this [http://majikthise.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/hermitcrabshell.jpg] hermit crab?

Patriotism means you love your country, not that you hate all others. I love being an American, but that doesn't mean I hate Germany, Australia, Mexico, Canada, or France. Alright, France is a bad example, but you get my point. I can love milk without hating apple juice. I can enjoy partaking in milk and not want to stop someone else from drinking apple juice. I just prefer milk.

Yes, sometimes people do stupid things in the name of "love." That doesn't mean we should get rid of it.

I've never got why Americans hate on the French when they've done nothing but good for you. Now the English? We've got plenty of history to hate on the French. The wars, invasions and whatnot back and forth and back and forth. Lots of fun. Americans? They fought alongside you and then gave you that big statue in New York.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

snip

I have long believed we need to unite as 1 species for the greater good. If people were less worried about being 'American' or 'English' or 'Russian' etc. we'd be much better off.

I'm down. Now you have to find the 1 religion everyone can agree on and the 1 form of government everyone can agree on.

I'll wait.

Edit:

Patriotism means you love your country, not that you hate all others. I love being an American, but that doesn't mean I hate Germany, Australia, Mexico, Canada, or France. Alright, France is a bad example, but you get my point. I can love milk without hating apple juice. I can enjoy partaking in milk and not want to stop someone else from drinking apple juice. I just prefer milk.

Yes, sometimes people do stupid things in the name of "love." That doesn't mean we should get rid of it.

I've never got why Americans hate on the French when they've done nothing but good for you. Now the English? We've got plenty of history to hate on the French. The wars, invasions and whatnot back and forth and back and forth. Lots of fun. Americans? They fought alongside you and then gave you that big statue in New York.

I make fun of France because it's fun. I don't particularly care about them, I just like using them as one of the general butts of my jokes. My biggest problem with France is that they seem to have a general disdain for America and Americans. Granted, it's probably blown completely out of proportions, but I've heard some pretty bad stories about people going to France and being spit on(metaphorically). It's nothing personal.

 

[SonicWaffle]

My biggest problem with France is that they seem to have a general disdain for America and Americans.

So do a lot of other countries - notably America!