Is piracy bad when you don't have a choice ?
- Thread starter Krelias
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Rather than say you do not have a choice, you should say that you do not have a meaningful choice. I'm not very concerned with the rightness or wrongness of the act itself, but I do see that pricing things out of reach of consumers will lead them to find other means of obtaining the product. It is the same reason I hold no respect for publishers who whine about piracy on the PC and don't offer people a way to rent the games and saddle them with DRM that mocks customers for buying the product.
Your really just a cheap person to not be able to "afford" games. I see you say people save for the ones they really really really want but if they dont want it bad enough to save for it then they dont need to be pirating it to begin with now do they. You say you make less money than other places but pay more and this is clearly false you state that it costs you $50 for a game here in the US its 60$ so I may make a couple bucks more but I pay more too and I still manage to buy 2 or 3 games a month. The only time pirating will pass with me as something that should not be looked down on is in the case the its an old old old old game that is no longer in production and the only way to get it is off ebay or something which is usually way over priced that I understand because why should I pay 200$ for a game that was originally only 50 or 60 and its used. So in that case it is the devs own fault for not still at least printing some copies of the games for those who may not have it. Honestly devs need to open up sites where you can order games through them and they will print a copy for you or something sure its not cost productive but maybe they could charge a small fee. But I digress anyways like I said the only reason to torrent is if you want a game thats long out of production and you want it. New games or even older games still in stores should not be pirated you say no ones losing out because you never would have been a potential customer but clearly thats a lie if you werent a potential customer you wouldn't show enough interest to bother pirating it after all why take the risk or being fined or going to jail for something you dont want.Krelias said:
Krelias said:I think that i've led everyone down a wrong path by overstating the less than fortunate financial condition of people in my home country. I wasn't trying to make anyone "feel" for the "poor people" that pirate games cause theý just have no money to buy them. I was just trying to say that when it's coupled with someone's incappacity to buy a game, piracy becomes a victimless crime, something that hurts no one. But that's just me i need to find a rational reason for doing or restrainig myself from doing someting I want to do "just cause it's wrong" doesn't cut it
I like this egg scenario people have been throwing around, so I think I'll stick with that for my example. So Mr. Guy has a replicator that can make an exact copy of something, in this case an egg. So he decides he wants to solve world hunger and replicate this egg for people who wouldn't be able to afford eggs, in this case Romania. So he copies a single egg for all of Romania and everyone is happy.scobie said:
The problem is that anyone who's distributing eggs is now out of a job. But that's ok, because they have an unlimited supply of eggs, right? Well, unfortunately, you can't pay for other things with eggs, such as shelter or heating, as they've now become worthless with the ability to copy them. Suddenly, this starts a trend where other food companies like peanut butter are quickly taken out of business because eggs become the source of protein as they're so easy to get. That's more people out of jobs who can't afford their houses because all they have ar eggs, a fairly useless product in terms of selling or trading for other good and services. Then, suddenly, someone from Hungry asks Mr. Guy for an egg, because he too is hungry, but really he just doesn't want to go and get a carton of eggs when he can get them for free. Out of kindness, Mr. Guy replicates him some eggs. Soon, everyone in Hungry is saying they can't afford eggs and are asking Mr. Guy for their eggs, regardless of their finacial situation.
You see where I'm going with this? Maybe the copying of a game doesn't effect the developers directly in your isolated case but the world isn't just that simple. Suddenly the people who are distributing these disks are out of money because they lost those contracts. Other hobby stores that could also really use the money are losing out because people can just download entertainment for free instead of looking for alternatives to video games. Your actions also reinforce and educate other people on pirating, which then becomes a trend and is seen as morally acceptable. Enough people do this and there goes another gaming company because there are no renewable sources of income to invest into their next blockbuster project. So now you've just destroyed three facets of the economy through pirating and that only furthers the downward spiral of a capitalist economy (which I believe most of the world runs on now) as you truly do need to spend money for the economy to make money. If people start losing jobs, that's less money to spend, which causes more jobs to be lost. Vicious, but true.
Don't get me wrong, I feel for you. Pricing does suck in your country, for sure, but that doesn't mean it's right to start draining the economy because you want a little entertainment through digital means. Be mindful of free works posted on the internet (I hear League of Legends is coming to EU), make sure to take advantage of used games and sales on older titles and just buy that one awesome game for yourself every year.
EDIT:
It sounds like you're the one who doesn't understand economics. The OP clearly stated that the current exchange from his country's currency still equates to a relevent price in the U.S. and subsequently Canada. His pay is minimum wage. That would be something akin to working at a McDonalds, though funny enough they pay much higher than minimum wage where I live. So, taking that into account, most people I know that work at a minimum wage job struggle to support themselves and can't afford video games. Sorry, but that's life. It also doesn't state what time period he makes his 350 Euros (again, that's $430 USD) in. I'm more interested in that than anything. So before you go shooting your mouth off, why don't you actually look at what the argument is and the points made within it.SyphonX said:
You know, I don't have the patience right now to read through all eight pages of this thread to see if anyone has already said this, but I must admit that it hadn't occurred to me the idea of the companies adjusting the prices for overseas markets (I'm an Economics retard). If they did that, I'm sure at least a small decline in piracy could come as a consequence.Irridium said:
I don't see the opposite happening anytime soon, though: pirates don't have a problem with piracy (obviously); and even if they somehow would suddenly decide to stop, y'know, pirating, I doubt the companies would have reason to adjust their overseas prices as a consequence.
The way I see it piracy is morally justifiable if it can't be obtained through reasonable channels. This includes out of print games, super rare games with absurd price tags and/or games with pricing way beyond the average person's spending power.
It's a judgement unique to computer software though so all you anger merchants screahing about how you wouldn't steal a Ferarri can shove it. Software piracy's negative effect is a loss of potential sales, if there's no possibility of a sale to begin with then there's no revenue lost.
It's a judgement unique to computer software though so all you anger merchants screahing about how you wouldn't steal a Ferarri can shove it. Software piracy's negative effect is a loss of potential sales, if there's no possibility of a sale to begin with then there's no revenue lost.
whoa-hoa.
"fuck anybody who doesn't agree", this is always heart-warming
OT: it's wrong. you DO have a "righteous" alternative: save money. i know it's hard and fucking frustrating to wait 3 months or more to buy a lousy game, but if you are indeed worried about straying toward the Dark Side and want to keep playing games (naturally) that's what i think you should do...
even i, in my unachievable greatness, had to save money for 5 fucking months before i could afford spending 350 euros on lousy 360. would have gone for PS3, but meh, it was around 500 euros and i had to choose between buying 360 games or saving for PS3.
"fuck anybody who doesn't agree", this is always heart-warming
OT: it's wrong. you DO have a "righteous" alternative: save money. i know it's hard and fucking frustrating to wait 3 months or more to buy a lousy game, but if you are indeed worried about straying toward the Dark Side
and want to keep playing games (naturally) that's what i think you should do...even i, in my unachievable greatness, had to save money for 5 fucking months before i could afford spending 350 euros on lousy 360. would have gone for PS3, but meh, it was around 500 euros and i had to choose between buying 360 games or saving for PS3.
"slavery [ˈsleɪvərɪ]Kwil said:
n
1. (Law) the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune
2. the subjection of a person to another person, esp in being forced into work
3. the condition of being subject to some influence or habit
4. (Business / Industrial Relations & HR Terms) work done in harsh conditions for low pay"
Nope... Care to try again?
I was about to comment on this thread, until I read your comment and, well, there's no point in repetition.SyphonX said:
Suffice it to say that I agree completely.
A game pirated because it is not affordable is not money lost. Nor is it resources lost. If gaming is truly such a "bottom-line" industry than it would be truly incapable of producing art as you say. I do not see "games as toys" as a preferable future or an accurate depiction of the present.LordNue said:
i've noticed some of you blame the developers for the prices, but it's the publishers (most of the time) who handle the sales and marketing aspects (including pricing).
and the pricing usually doesn't aim to cover the developer's expenses only, but the expenses of the publisher as well...
for instance, FIFA 10 was priced ~50 not to cover only the expenses of EA Sports, but those of other developers suckling its teat, such as pandemic...
and the pricing usually doesn't aim to cover the developer's expenses only, but the expenses of the publisher as well...
for instance, FIFA 10 was priced ~50 not to cover only the expenses of EA Sports, but those of other developers suckling its teat, such as pandemic...
Engaging in this counterfactual doesn't really help us with dealing with morality of piracy. The fact is that despite piracy, video games are being made and profited from. Yes, you're right, if everyone did it for every game, there would be no games industry, but that isn't the case and it isn't a useful point. Do you think that withdrawing your money from the bank is morally unacceptable? If not, do you recognise that if everyone did it our economic system would crumble down in a bigger meltdown than the great depression, plunging society into chaos? Assuming you've answered those questions as I anticipate, you must see that 'if everyone did it, things would be bad' is not useful for distinguishing 'wrongful' acts from 'rightful' acts, or at least it is insufficient. Do you have anything to add to it or replace it with?HellsingerAngel said:
If you'd bought the game and couldn't play it due to restrictive DRM or it won't play on a modern machine, I could sympathise- but buying it new? Personally, I'd wait a few months, but it's entirely your decision.
That wasn't the point that I was making, I was using the comparison of pirating software and stealing bread because you only need one of those things to live.Chamale said:
There is a quite obvious difference between the production of bread and the production of software, I'm pretty sure the latter takes more money, manpower and effort.
Also, the analogy you used isn't totally accurate, copying the recipe for bread so you can make your own is not the same as pirating a game. That would be more like learning how to programme so you could make your own game.
I'm going to be brutally honest here. I could really care less if anyone pirated games or the like, So i'll go with those people that are playing devils advocate.
When you think about it, companies that make these things see a profit upwards to hundreds of thousands of dollars even for poorly made crap. Past that MOST games are only distributed from manufacturers for only a number of months, after that the companies no longer see revenue from those games they made. At that point the only people that lose anything in that case are the distributors who would be carrying the games as a used copy. Even then some of those games that didn't ever sell well are too exorbitantly priced that no sane person would buy unless they felt they really had too much money. ( $200+ for a single game that's multiple system generations old is just one example, and yes there are such games. )
Past that you have games that have never seen the light of day in some regions and would otherwise be impossible to be played normally. Once again I look toward the older systems for the most prevalent examples and not quite as common today. Now for the ease of this example I'll use myself as the person in the situation:
Say that I wanted to play something like oh...Mother 3 or some such game that never saw release outside of Japan. Now by normal means it just would not make sense for me to be able to get my hands on the game and be able to play it in America. In order to properly play a game such as this I'd have to pirate it and then modify the game in order to play it and understand what's going on.
When you think about it, companies that make these things see a profit upwards to hundreds of thousands of dollars even for poorly made crap. Past that MOST games are only distributed from manufacturers for only a number of months, after that the companies no longer see revenue from those games they made. At that point the only people that lose anything in that case are the distributors who would be carrying the games as a used copy. Even then some of those games that didn't ever sell well are too exorbitantly priced that no sane person would buy unless they felt they really had too much money. ( $200+ for a single game that's multiple system generations old is just one example, and yes there are such games. )
Past that you have games that have never seen the light of day in some regions and would otherwise be impossible to be played normally. Once again I look toward the older systems for the most prevalent examples and not quite as common today. Now for the ease of this example I'll use myself as the person in the situation:
Say that I wanted to play something like oh...Mother 3 or some such game that never saw release outside of Japan. Now by normal means it just would not make sense for me to be able to get my hands on the game and be able to play it in America. In order to properly play a game such as this I'd have to pirate it and then modify the game in order to play it and understand what's going on.
