Is piracy bad when you don't have a choice ?
- Thread starter Krelias
- Start date
What most people don't seem to be realizing, is that the western market is actually the worse off country. Due to the inflation, and the dollar values buying you jack crap. It's literally an inflation meltdown, or explosion if you want to be fancy.
Other countries, who are not inflated, and have "less money" as a whole, but are doing just fine, are the ones in the clear. The only difference is, their markets are not flooded with insanely worthless crap, like stores filled with China exports or cheap electronics, all with their respective hyper-inflated unrealistic values.
Less is more, more is less. If we keep this up, we're fucked. A lot of countries are already taken the hit pretty bad, because they can't keep up with the inflation and implosions. If you can buy produce for a dollar, you're doing alright. If you have to fork over 20 bucks for a few groceries, you may want to be concerned.
Other countries, who are not inflated, and have "less money" as a whole, but are doing just fine, are the ones in the clear. The only difference is, their markets are not flooded with insanely worthless crap, like stores filled with China exports or cheap electronics, all with their respective hyper-inflated unrealistic values.
Less is more, more is less. If we keep this up, we're fucked. A lot of countries are already taken the hit pretty bad, because they can't keep up with the inflation and implosions. If you can buy produce for a dollar, you're doing alright. If you have to fork over 20 bucks for a few groceries, you may want to be concerned.
effort and time go into a product just as much as the physical product. by stealing a mars bar, i am also stealing the effort that went into the mars bar's design and production. a digital download drops the physical product aspect, but still retains the effort and time put into its creation. time that cannot ever be used again. that's like building a cellular tower, and then everyone just uses illegal phone software to make use of it without paying. nothing is leaving the market, but my time and effort put into building the tower is wasted because i receive nothing for it.
effort and time go into a product just as much as the physical product. by stealing a mars bar, i am also stealing the effort that went into the mars bar's design and production. a digital download drops the physical product aspect, but still retains the effort and time put into its creation. time that cannot ever be used again. that's like building a cellular tower, and then everyone just uses illegal phone software to make use of it without paying. nothing is leaving the market, but my time and effort put into building the tower is wasted because i receive nothing for it.SnowDensOfYesteryear said:
I hate that excuse, gaming and movies are a luxury and there is no "I didn't have a choice" situation.
Just go without.
Just go without.
You are comparing stealing a luxury(video game) with stealing a necessity(food) when you can't afford it. It doesn't work like that. Example: you live in a shitty apartment because you can't afford anything better. You are asking if it is alright to break into a nicer house and just start living in it. Even if you stay unnoticed by the owners. Get the point?
editor's note: I am not entirely above piracy and I do admit I shouldn't do it but I don't us "but I can't afford it" as a crutch. That is really what is angering me here.
editor's note: I am not entirely above piracy and I do admit I shouldn't do it but I don't us "but I can't afford it" as a crutch. That is really what is angering me here.
Does your coy Mars bar argument pretend that a Mars bar equals as much as a large chunk of someone's normal salary in any given area? If not, then the argument is rather dull. Candy bars, regardless of effort, don't have any massive cost difference when sold in different areas. They are adjusted when appropriate, in any given area, so people can afford them within reason.
If say, 10 years from now, the market where the candy bar comes from continues to inflate, and the candy bar costs $5, that would be like saying that every other country in the world should pay the same price, regardless. My market is shit, and super-inflated, yours is not.. but we expect you to support our failed economy by paying an unrealistic full price for something that doesn't contribute to your economy whatsoever.
Extortion by color of law, nearly. Support our failing economy, or go without. Either way you're screwed.
If say, 10 years from now, the market where the candy bar comes from continues to inflate, and the candy bar costs $5, that would be like saying that every other country in the world should pay the same price, regardless. My market is shit, and super-inflated, yours is not.. but we expect you to support our failed economy by paying an unrealistic full price for something that doesn't contribute to your economy whatsoever.
Extortion by color of law, nearly. Support our failing economy, or go without. Either way you're screwed.
Videogames are a luxery. A luxery is something not needed to survive or live within reasonable levels of comfort. If you can't afford a luxery, then you don't get to have said luxery.
God knows I'd love to have a Porsche 911 Turbo, but since I can't afford one I'm not going to go out and steal one.
There is never a "no choice" situation when it comes to piracy and I would think that if someone was in really such dire straits where they could in no way, shape, or form afford to buy ANY sort of entertainment then they must have much bigger problems to worry about then buying the latest copy of Madden for their Xbox.
God knows I'd love to have a Porsche 911 Turbo, but since I can't afford one I'm not going to go out and steal one.
There is never a "no choice" situation when it comes to piracy and I would think that if someone was in really such dire straits where they could in no way, shape, or form afford to buy ANY sort of entertainment then they must have much bigger problems to worry about then buying the latest copy of Madden for their Xbox.
Not EVERYONE uses the phone software (piracy,) but rather a minority. Even if the pirates are a majority, the buyers are enough to keep the majority of companies that aren't spending it all on yachts made of solidified economic stupidity and DRM-fuckwits afloat and alive. Piracy is a small problem, and their effort IS rewarded - and again, the fact that you downloaded A COPY of A GAME does not mean that the effort is completely wasted, blowing up in their face. Again, you haven't taken it out of the market, so it's still there.oxiclean said:
There is no such a thing as "victimless crime". I am incapable of buying a car, therefore I have the right to get one by other means? Pirates likes to talk about how they do it to stick it to the man, and see themselves as revolutionaries; but those are just excuses. Truth is the game industry is full of people that get paid less than you and work twice as hard.Krelias said:
I understand your position... I live in south america, a region considered by companies like a 4th class region, which means none of them gives a rat ass about it; it also means the goverment add taxes to games and they cost at least twice the original price. That doesn't mean I should feel entitled to pirate, or will try to justify it with excuses like "I am so poor" or "its their fault".
Its not like you can't buy food or clothes. Games are a luxury and a commodity. Can't afford more than 3 games a year? Then get two.
Bra-f***ing-vo.SyphonX said:
Also let me go back to the usual comparison: copyright infringement is NOT the same as stealing from a shop or someone's home, ESPECIALLY when the person can't afford it anyway (meaning they wouldn't have paid for it in the first place). When you steal from someone you are taking something away from them, they had something but now you have taken it from them and they are now missing it. Not the case with electronic media, you are taking away a POTENTIAL sale, which in most cases (perfect example - OP) is highly unlikely to become an ACTUAL sale.
May I highlight an article in the escapist? AC2? Uncrackable for the high-sales period and it ... wait for it ... sold exactly like any other game.
Edit: Forgot something, why don't they just buy good games? Buy ArmA2 or something instead of mass-produced crap that gives you 6 hours of enjoyment
i'm glad you notice the coyness of my argument, i took many minutes to think that one up =). in regards to it being a large chunk of salary: there is nothing saying that video games are a necessity. there is also nothing stopping you from saving a few paychecks to get a game and still have money left. that counter-argument of yours still does not factor in that it is stealing. there are many things i cannot afford, and that is in my own economy. i still refuse to resort to theft. the economy is shit everywhere, but if the mass of people resort to theft the markets are just going to get worse.SyphonX said:
I am not implying that a company should be forced to produce for everyone. I'm talking about the company expecting people to pay their month's salary, knowing full well they can't, then acting pompous, self-righteous and arrogant when said people have the audacity to share it.
No one seems to be getting the idea that hardly anyone in these target countries are buying any products whatsoever. So therefore, nothing is gained or lost because they don't even distribute enough to make an impact.
And I'm only talking about needless products, whose prices are left inflated from their home markets, placed in a target market where the "monetary value" is different. Expecting the same price to be paid, is ludicrous. We're not talking food, or basic needs here. Needs are typically relative to the cost-of-living ratio in every area, even town to town.
You're trying to put words into my mouth, claiming I expect companies to slave out to the consumers of the world at all costs. I suppose you'll tell me I'm a secret-communist next.
No one seems to be getting the idea that hardly anyone in these target countries are buying any products whatsoever. So therefore, nothing is gained or lost because they don't even distribute enough to make an impact.
And I'm only talking about needless products, whose prices are left inflated from their home markets, placed in a target market where the "monetary value" is different. Expecting the same price to be paid, is ludicrous. We're not talking food, or basic needs here. Needs are typically relative to the cost-of-living ratio in every area, even town to town.
You're trying to put words into my mouth, claiming I expect companies to slave out to the consumers of the world at all costs. I suppose you'll tell me I'm a secret-communist next.
If you truly believe that information, content creation and distribution are worthless by themselves, free and effortless, you really don't understand how it works...SnowDensOfYesteryear said:
And I am sure the thousands of people that got laid off, and the studios that got shut down would like a word with you... You might find them in their yatchs made of solidified economic stupidity.
...Wha'... where did you get that I thought "information, content creation and distribution are worthless by themselves"...?hermes200 said:
SnowDensOfYesteryear said:
what sort of economic model do you subscribe to that says minority of people can pay for something and the company still turn a profit? companies have a right to buy what they wish and, just as well, to get payed for their work. if a company needs to make a profit of $1000 to stay afloat, and they spend $20,000 making it, marketing, etc; they have their profit margins set up so they can still turn a profit, pay employees, and continue to make the games you pirate. if piracy takes from that profit margin, they have less money to pay the people who developed them and less money for future ventures. the more this happens, the less money they will get, and eventually will have to shut down.
and like i said, the time and effort used in production is lost with no compensation. if you mow my lawn, and then i refuse to pay you, the time you used will not be returned to you and you will feel cheated. again, no physical item is taken form the market, but at the same time something else is.
In my opinion, I consider that the - "Fuck it, everyone loses." -argument. The company doesn't care to realistically distribute, or adjust accordingly, even though they could profit immensely if they did. They just choose the, "fuck it" route. Where everyone acts arrogant, the company gains or loses absolutely nothing and the target audience gets nothing at all, and gives nothing, including word-of-mouth or appreciation.oxiclean said:
They could adjust prices so people could afford it all over the place, gain a ton of money in the process, have huge amounts of exposure and everyone wins. Simply put limits on exports of items that are adjusted, so people can't buy/sell at different rates, preventing other countries from trying to buy uber-cheap, and so on. I mean, this isn't impossible. Do people in Australia get to buy games for cheap from other countries? Nope. It's nearly 100% prevented, and they are forced to pay a crap-ton of money. It's not a theory, people in Australia are not "devastating the market" by secretly importing from places where it is cheaper. Or any other country forced to pay extra-full price for games, exporting/importing restrictions prevent them from doing so in any serious form.Dormin111 said:
It's always been possible to export from a cheaper place, but it's a huge hassle, not to mention shipping prices that pretty much void the benefit. It's not realistic anymore. If you want to be technical here, even if games were 20USD in Romania, I implore you to try and find a good deal considering the insane shipping costs. Yay, I paid $30 less for Modern Warfare 3.. but aww, the shipping made it $63... sad face.
That's harsh. I doubt you would feel the same if you were in his financial situation. Just because it isn't right doesn't make it wrong. Even if it is wrong, to what degree? In my opinion this guy pirating a game is less morally wrong than say, stealing a pack of gum from the corner store.LordNue said:
I have to disagree with you. Stealing a Twix from Apu is different than stealing a Twix from a company where the money will never be seen anyways.Perhaps that's what you mean, but the term 'material magnitude' has likely never been used before so it's slightly confusing.Dormin111 said: