Is TF2 Perfect?

[HD]Rob Inglis

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Don't let the title misguide you, I'm not obsessed with this game; it's not God's handy work. Now then...
I've played the game of TF2 for about 100 hours give or take 10, and I begin to wonder, is there anyone out there who likes this game more than I do? The answer is probably, yes, but that's another talk. Really, I haven't found anything wrong with any aspect of this game, just that yes, it still can somehow be hacked, which sucks. I want you, may fellow gamers, to tell me:

What did you or didn't you like about TF2? Why or why not? If there is an aspect you don't like, how should it be fixed?

Please people, be polite and don't flame, this is a simple and reasonable question.
 

Duck Sandwich

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Dec 13, 2007
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Random Chances: Sometimes, it's ridiculous how often a Soldier gets a 1-hit kill critical rocket.

Also, it has the same flaw that all online games suffer from: lag. There's always going to be a bit of it every now and then, and however insignificant it may be most of the time, it's usually enough to kill you in some situations.

I'd also like to see more modes, like rounds of team deathmatch outside of sudden death.

Other than that, it's a solid, all around good game.

And another thing (not a flaw, just an odd observation): Is it me, or does it seem like characters don't seem as powerful when you're playing them? For example, a Pyro gets close to me with a flamethrower and I'm dead. But then I may play as pyro and ambush a guy, only for him to easily turn around and kill me and only lose half his health. Does anything like that ever happen to you?
 

Annom

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Duck Sandwich said:
And another thing (not a flaw, just an odd observation): Is it me, or does it seem like characters don't seem as powerful when you're playing them? For example, a Pyro gets close to me with a flamethrower and I'm dead. But then I may play as pyro and ambush a guy, only for him to easily turn around and kill me and only lose half his health. Does anything like that ever happen to you?
Lol All the time, I feel like Milhouse when he met the Shelbyville Milhouse. Seems no matter what class I play or how many times I hit someone I always do less damage then someone who is hitting me. The pyro is the perfect example, when I get hit by a pyro it seems like its auto death, when I'm a pyro it seems to do nothing.
 

Iori Branford

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Two big flaws I can think of right away are the much-debated respawn timers and critical hits.

It mainly comes down to differences in game philosophy. I believe all real-time skill games should strive to A) keep the player in-game and in control as much as reasonably possible and B) never let the outcome be determined by random numbers before player skill.
 

EittilDratsab

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The biggest flaw I can think of for TF2 is the lack of variety, as mentioned in one of Yahtzee's videos.

The Critical hits are also very annoying.

The outcome of a fight should never be determined by luck

Also make the Pyros more powerful!
 

GrowlersAtSea

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To me, the biggest annoyance are the explosives when combined with Critical Hits.

I'm not a big fan of games with grenades and explosives, because the bottom line is that players quickly master them then usually spam that as a primary weapon (Battlefield, Call of Duty, etc.). Limiting the explosives to just two classes, the Soldier and the Demoman limits this, since the Demoman has a considerable arc and slow firing weapon, and the soldier has a fairly slow firing weapon and a small clip, it isn't too bad. But that's when the other part of the equation comes to play, the Critical Hits.

Criticals allow these classes to spam unholy amounts and just bank on the splash of a critical to do the job. The splash on a critical rocket isn't uncommon to see kill two or three players, and the Demoman can rain his weapon better due to a higher clip size, so he's just as dangerous in the right hands.

Together, I find this just very frustrating to deal with. But I may be a bit biased, since my primary class is Medic, meaning most of my kills are with the melee Bonesaw or the Syringe-Gun (which takes a bit of practice to get right at longer distances, crazy arc on that weapon). As a fix, it would be nice if the splash on the critical hits of these weapons was significantly reduced. I don't mind a direct hit killing me, but the destructive potential of even a miss of these weapons is a bit much.

The class balance seems pretty good, although I agree that the Pyro seems to get the short stick. He is a close range specialist, with really no other abilities, but at close range a decent soldier can usually beat one 1 vs 1 by just shooting the ground. I only have really good luck getting kills when I get up behind an enemy, which then makes me wonder why I'm playing Pyro and not Spy.

Critical Hits as a whole I think are alright. They add another wildcard to the game. It doesn't add luck, because in all games with humans there is luck and chance involved, since humans themselves introduce it, or it can occur as a result of outside influences. Criticals allow that Engineer defending his equipment with a shotgun a chance against that surprise Soldier, or the Sniper a chance against that Scout. Aside from the explosives, I don't think a fix is needed.

The Respawn timers seem absolutely needed as a result of level design, which I frankly don't mind. I usually play Call of Duty, Search and Destroy, wonderfully fun, and if you mess up you have three to five minutes to think about what went wrong. A twenty second respawn timer is fairly forgiving, but also without it many of the levels are terribly broken (try playing 2fort without respawn timers, unless the other team is unbelievably bad, it's impossible to get out of their basement with the Intelligence). The only real "fix" for that would be reworking the levels, spawn areas, and their distances from the objectives, which seems like a bit much.

Overall, I really do enjoy the game. I usually just play the Medic because I like helping the team, but other roles can be fun to goof around with. I'm really looking forward to the changes Valve has said to be planning as to the classes and new features, as well as the additional maps and mode to come.
 

Copter400

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The whole Pyro thing is not just restricted to TF2. Anyone here ever play Tremulous? As a Dretch, you tend to get killed more than you actually do kill, due to your measly 25 HP and piss-weak melee attack. And yet when you're a human, you always seem to get gang-raped by Dretches.

I like TF2. I like the Pyro, especially. A tip to anyone playing when there's a Pyro on the other team: be prepared. I was playing Hydro on the Red team. There's this big staircase thing that leads up to a cliff. A couple of Soldiers were up there, taking advantage of the way they could rain holy fire on any poor sod who tried to set up a turret without fear of getting shot.

Then I truck up in my flame-retardant underwear. I ran up the stairs, stood right next to those Blu arseholes and let rip with my flamethrower. Good times.

I do have one problem with the class. Enemy Pyros shouldn't be able to kill you with their flamer. I like the whole idea of the fire-proof suit, but for a skilled player you may as well be wearing sticks sown together with dead leaves.
 

sammyfreak

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I have just recently started playing TF2 and i like it alot. Unlike Halo it realy promotes teamwork. The lack of a general Assualt Rifle does anoy me a little bit since im used to more conventional weapons.
 

Gauwin

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I havent seen any "class imbanlance" so far. Every class has its flaws, its counters, and its strong points. For example if a spy sap's your sentry, you dont have time to kill the spy and repair your sentry. if you repair your sentry, he can just put up another sap on it. it just counters it.
 

devilondemand

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sammyfreak said:
I have just recently started playing TF2 and i like it alot. Unlike Halo it realy promotes teamwork. The lack of a general Assualt Rifle does anoy me a little bit since im used to more conventional weapons.
This was going to be my main issue. There isn't really a machine gun in the game. The Sniper has one, but it's the secondary weapon and pretty useless in my hands. I want a gun inbetween the Heavy's minigun and the Snipers weedy machine gun. A nice, reliable assault rifle!!
 

Fedora.Pirate

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Sep 22, 2007
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I really enjoy the game. My biggest beef is the respawn timer as a long time Unreal Tournament fan I'm not used to the whole waiting after death thing. And while it adds more punishment for death (good thing) and certainly necessary to remove pesky defenders, I find it just a bit too long and frustrating at times.
Also I love the balance, but agree with the whole Pyro needs a small boost. Every weapon besides the sniper rifle does more damage at close range, so a close range class is at a bit of a disadvantage. I say give them the Medics speed, remove the whole "Flame thrower has half range when running forward" or make it at least 3/4 range and up the damage caused by fire but lower the amount of time it lasts.
Oh and more maps would certainly be welcome (along with less ctf public servers)
 

sammyfreak

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Indeed, replace the Soldiers shotgun with it might do the trick, but i gues it cant be to powerful.
 

sapient

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I guess the only real imbalance I see is with Soldiers and Engineers. On one hand, Soldiers get splash damage, the second highest health in the game, crits that instantly kill, the ability to jump higher than most classes and their projectiles always fly in a straight line, allowing you to shoot from one side of a map to the other with no stopping until you hit something or reach the other side.

On the other hand, they're fairly slow.

That's it. That's all that's wrong with Soldiers. They're fairly slow. Put this up against the imbalances of classes like Demomen, who have to either hit precisely or rely on splash damage and their enemy's absent mindedness (who the hell doesn't check for a sticky while running toward a Demoman?) or Pyros, who have to be in a very limited range to start hurting the opposition.

Engineers, on the other hand, are what people play when they fail horribly at every class, then fail at Soldiers. Why the hell would you have a first-person shooter where the computer does the shooting for you? Why have something constantly healing you? Teleporters are okay, but otherwise I'm biased to Engineers and only play one if our team is void of them and we're really getting battered on the defence.
 

The Reverend

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Ah it's gotta be the criticals for me. It always seems that when I'm charging about as a pyro and whatnot the enemy always manages to get a crit and turn me into fondou. Incidentally I think for most classes its a 1/8 chance of your weapon firing a crit round/burst, but with the soldiers lover clip size/fire rate this is probably higher, which is why the bastards always get me.. still, I wouldn't like to see them taken out of the game, as they are part of it, and I'm in for a penny, in for a pound, but they do annoy me sometimes.
And assault rifles would be a bad thing, because everyone would use them. Having said that, who knows what the unlocks for the other classes will bring..
 

Esta

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[HD said:
Rob Inglis] I'm not obsessed with this game; it's not God's handy work
I am, and yes it is.

No shame in admitting that your in love with one of the greatest online shooters of all time mate.
 

eDuke

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for one thing i don't think someone can rely on a critical hit when fighting. it's a random thing afaik, so when it happens you just sit back and enjoy the (short) agony of your opponent.
i've read the thread and concluded that many of you guys have something against the pyro. may i say that it's wrong? :) i mean, try to jump with a sniper/scout/soldier/heavy/etc. in a pack of wolves (wolves=enemy players) and scatter them. it's not gonna happen. use the pyro to do this and they'll run like hell. not because u'll kill them all, because they're afraid of fire :).
now, imho a pyro is the guy that highlights the spy. set him on fire and the everyone can help themselves to a chunk of the "cloaked" enemy spy. especially when using sappers on sentries or other devices.
TF2 is only a game, it's supposed to be fun, not perfect and is up to the player's skill to balance the classes, find a strategy to overcome the enemy. set a guy on fire, watch him run (cuz it's what they do in 90% of the cases) and unload your shotgun into his back. usually works.

besides that, everyone hates spies and pyros, so they're pretty good at what they do!
 

strayjay

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Oct 10, 2007
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It's good, great even, but its main flaw is the lack of variety. We need more maps, pronto. More game modes wouldn't go amiss either, and on Xbox-live, the lag can be (and is) debilitating. It's not really the service, since I can play COD lag free almost continuously for 3 or 4 hours.
 

[HD]Rob Inglis

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As most have mentioned, I believe the soldier is the only notable unbalanced character. He seems to get more crit. shots than most others. He also has a great deal of heal if compared to the demoman, and he does about 1/4 the damage to himself with rockets that the demoman does to himself with grenades (albeit the grenades are more powerful). I don't know if the characters have damage resistance per class, but the soldier seems to take much less damage from just about everything. If the soldier's rockets did as much damage to themselves as the demomans grenades do, then I think mosty of the problem would be solved.
 

some random guy

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Some things I don't like about TF2:

1. Critical hits.
As mentioned in the developer?s commentary, the chance of a critical hit increases when the player is doing well. It's unfair for one player to have an advantage just because he's doing well. Also, most critical hits are just luck with no skill involved.

2. Engineers are way too powerful.
If decently supervised, just one level 3 turret can cause a lot of trouble for the opposing team.

3. When, at the end of a game, the losing team lose the ability to control there weapons and the supply areas become accessible to the opposing team.
The team has already lost, they don't deserve to be unfairly killed by the winning team.

4. Pyros are too powerful against spies.
If a pyro flames everyone who appears to be on his team then a spy doesn't stand a chance. I think flames shouldn't appear on a spy when they're cloaked.

5. Sudden death.
The only two scenarios which happen with me during sudden death.
1: Everyone's too afraid of dying to go and attack the enemy. Nothing happens.
2: I immediately get killed by a heavy or soldier and have to wait 3-4 minutes for the game to end.

6. Not enough maps.
 

[HD]Rob Inglis

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Oh there are plenty of maps, just play the customs, many are very good. If it's the Xbox version, well then you are on your own.