Is there an RPG that does this?

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I was thinking about how easy it is to travel the world, relatively speaking, these days than it used to be. You didn't used to be able to book a hotel and a guide etc. months ahead of time, from people that understood your language and used your currency. You had to set out, arrive as a stranger, and hope for the best unless you knew someone that could help you there.

But that is exactly what you do in RPGs.

You cross the land, come to a town, and generally they just lest you in no questions asked. They speak your language. The inn is easy to find, along with all the shops and they usually have the same prices unilaterally on individual items.

They accept your monster loot as a universal currency, and generally each town has the same laws regardless on if they are in separate countries etc.

Following that line of reasoning I wondered what it would be like if none of that were the case. What if you played an RPG and you set out and find that your money isn't accepted at the next town across the border? What if they spoke a completely different language? Had obtuse, and to you, completely unreasonable laws like NOT BARGING IN TO PEOPLES HOUSES AND TAKING ALL THEIR CRAP. Or maybe they prohibit geese juggling, in favor of mummified cats to use 2 obscure references.

Shops might be closed for daily prayer, or maybe there is a sales tax on herbs or something. And you could sell certain items like fruit at a premium at distant locations.

I mean games like Skyrim have basic no tresspassing, killing, stealing, and assault laws. But its not like you get into trouble selling skooma, or for walking up to a farm and taking all their wheat for alchemy instead of selling it to the owner. No one cares if you are selling a healing potion with adverse side effects, hell its probably worth more if it heals 2 hp and makes you take 500 poison damage.

In short I was curious if there was already a game like that, where traveling the world wasn't as easy as walking in to town, dropping some "G" at the inn, and looting the place before moving on loaded with crap.

Would anyone actually play a game where some cities only speak in gibberish that you NEEDED to learn and in fact could learn and converse in yourself if you wanted to be extra nerdy?

Or if you had to dress appropriately to get fair deals as the merchants gouge foreigners etc. or maybe everyone in that country considers plaid to keep demons away and if you aren't wearing 7 clashing plaid items you are clearly a witch.

 

[CAPTCHA]

The only example of this I can think of is in Ultima Underworld. There's a level populated by lizardmen who only speak in their own language. To progress you have to learn the language and saying the wrong thing can shut down realtions and possibly make them hosile. The only guy who can teach you the lizardman language happens to be mute. You can ask him what certain words mean and he'll pantomine the meaning for you.

 

[Jason Rayes]

Well the Gothic games don't let you just steal stuff, if you walk in someones house without permission they will draw their weapon and warn you, if you don't get out quick enough they will attack you. The closest a game has ever come to making me learn a language was Outcast, the aliens in it speak a bit of English but there are a lot of alien terms they use that you have to get used to, mainly through context, to understand exactly what they are talking about.

Edit: I think at the end of the day its about not alienating players. A lot of RPG's are a big time investment anyway, for people with a job and family to juggle finding time for just a regular RPG can be a hassle. If you had to learn an entirely new fictional language to be able to even access the top layer of the game before you even get into the meat of it, I think many people would be turned off. Its not exactly a path to commercial success.

 

[L0dest0ne]

Eh, Ultima 7 in a way. It's selling point was it's roleplay mechanics, so it may work well for you.

 

[BrotherRool]

I would dig an experience like that, I was thinking about time mechanics in RPGs and just generally improving the feeling of actually being in the world. It might be really hard to get it right though, because the more you try to get people to behave properly the more AI hangups come up and the more it feels like a game mechanic. You have a thieving system but then you get people putting Cauldrons on people's heads.

The Discworld MUD has a system where you can't speak foreign languages and if you learn you gradually are able to make more sense of it. It's really cool actually, because it's not like letter substitution or anything, they have some sort of system where the meaning at first is completely unintelligible but the more you learn the less random the sentences become and the closer they come to the actually thing. To have an actual RPG where you're stuck in a town where no-one speaks your language and it's hard to tell whats going on. It would be a really good emotion to put over

 

[Evilpigeon]

Can't think of anything, would love it. People always derisively call Skyrim a hiking simulator and I'm sitting there thinking no it's not, that's what I want from it -.-

 

[SonicWaffle]

Following that line of reasoning I wondered what it would be like if none of that were the case. What if you played an RPG and you set out and find that your money isn't accepted at the next town across the border? What if they spoke a completely different language? Had obtuse, and to you, completely unreasonable laws like NOT BARGING IN TO PEOPLES HOUSES AND TAKING ALL THEIR CRAP. Or maybe they prohibit geese juggling, in favor of mummified cats to use 2 obscure references.

As BrotherRool mentions, Discworld MUD has many languages for different areas, but these areas also have their own quirks and laws. They each have their own currencies, too. In Ankh-Morpork only legally recognised Thieves can steal, lest they be punished by a Guild who don't like anyone muscling in on their territory, but in the rest of the world things work differently; in Djelibeybi they throw you in the desert when you're caught stealing, in Escrow they chuck you into a forest full of werewolves, in Genua if you steal from Mafia-owned shops then stealthy hitmen appear and jump you from the shadows, in other areas nothing happens at all.

In Klatch, cats are sacred, and killing them (or the local priests) will have the player thrown to the crocodiles. In other areas, nobody cares. Some towns have policemen wandering the streets who will arrest you for whatever crimes you've committed, others have guards who confiscate your weapons if you don't have a permit. In one large area, NPCs are superstitious and run away from magic. Go to one area at night, it'll be infested by vampires who will attack and bite you.

If you're looking for variety between areas, you should absolutely check the game out. Every zone has different rules, NPCs, languages, items, currency and customs. You'll find it at http://discworld.starturtle.net/lpc/ - enjoy!

The Discworld MUD has a system where you can't speak foreign languages and if you learn you gradually are able to make more sense of it. It's really cool actually, because it's not like letter substitution or anything, they have some sort of system where the meaning at first is completely unintelligible but the more you learn the less random the sentences become and the closer they come to the actually thing. To have an actual RPG where you're stuck in a town where no-one speaks your language and it's hard to tell whats going on. It would be a really good emotion to put over

That is the most obscure ninja'ing I've ever seen, I was about post exactly the same thing

current Agatean............. | 90 |....| 82 |
Djelian............. | 90 |....| 90 |
Ephebian............ | 27 |....| 38 |
Grunt............... | 100 |....| --- |
Klatchian........... | 56 |....| 28 |
default Morporkian.......... | 100 |....| 100 |
Uberwaldean......... | 37 |....| 26 |

(my languages are bad, my written in particular, and I should feel bad)

 

[AD-Stu]

The middle-period Ultima games (as others have suggested above) are the closest thing that comes to mind for me. Gold coins are universal but the NPCs all go about their business regardless of what you want or need, there are occasional sections where you need to learn new languages (hell, you need to learn a new alphabet just to read the signs that are posted everywhere), storekeepers will only pay you for items they actually want and they're about more than just stealing all the townsfolk's stuff.

 

[BrotherRool]

The Discworld MUD has a system where you can't speak foreign languages and if you learn you gradually are able to make more sense of it. It's really cool actually, because it's not like letter substitution or anything, they have some sort of system where the meaning at first is completely unintelligible but the more you learn the less random the sentences become and the closer they come to the actually thing. To have an actual RPG where you're stuck in a town where no-one speaks your language and it's hard to tell whats going on. It would be a really good emotion to put over

That is the most obscure ninja'ing I've ever seen, I was about post exactly the same thing

And this is the second time today that someone else has surprised me with their knowledge of Discworld stuff =D Still it's definitely worth the reference how they do languages is really fun, probably the best part of the game for me

 

[LordDPS]

I remember a PnP Campaign set in a homebrew Savage Worlds setting, where we were self inserted into the setting. it was supposed to answer the question. "what would actually happen were a non Mary Sue realistic version of you ended up in a new world with no idea of how you got there, no idea about the cultures and languages of this place, no combat or heroic skills to speak of etc.

 

[SonicWaffle]

The Discworld MUD has a system where you can't speak foreign languages and if you learn you gradually are able to make more sense of it. It's really cool actually, because it's not like letter substitution or anything, they have some sort of system where the meaning at first is completely unintelligible but the more you learn the less random the sentences become and the closer they come to the actually thing. To have an actual RPG where you're stuck in a town where no-one speaks your language and it's hard to tell whats going on. It would be a really good emotion to put over

That is the most obscure ninja'ing I've ever seen, I was about post exactly the same thing

And this is the second time today that someone else has surprised me with their knowledge of Discworld stuff =D Still it's definitely worth the reference how they do languages is really fun, probably the best part of the game for me

Who was the other? I know we've got a couple of MUDders knocking around these forums - some more active than others - but we're still a pretty rare breed.

As for languages, I'd say the way they're handled is both novel and intriguing, but it can also be annoying. Like if you want to order a custom katana but don't have high enough Agatean spoken, or do a BP family mission but haven't got enough Agatean written (the current reason I'm trying to TM languages) then there's no way to chase those skills fast. You just have to wait until they TM. Plus for a non-Morporkian, starting the game can be a real bugger; given the sheer number of quests that require spoken Morporkian (even if it is just to say 'help') then a newbie from a different area is going to have an enormous disadvantage compared to one who starts in AM. Quests are the best source of XP for a low-level character, and not being able to start any puts a real damper on XP-earning potential.

 

[BrotherRool]

Who was the other? I know we've got a couple of MUDders knocking around these forums - some more active than others - but we're still a pretty rare breed.

As for languages, I'd say the way they're handled is both novel and intriguing, but it can also be annoying. Like if you want to order a custom katana but don't have high enough Agatean spoken, or do a BP family mission but haven't got enough Agatean written (the current reason I'm trying to TM languages) then there's no way to chase those skills fast. You just have to wait until they TM. Plus for a non-Morporkian, starting the game can be a real bugger; given the sheer number of quests that require spoken Morporkian (even if it is just to say 'help') then a newbie from a different area is going to have an enormous disadvantage compared to one who starts in AM. Quests are the best source of XP for a low-level character, and not being able to start any puts a real damper on XP-earning potential.

Oh it wasn't a mudder, it was fairly easy knowledge even, but I have very low hopes of people having read the Discworld books =D Someone caught a Ronnie Soak reference

 

[Dandark]

I don't know of anything like that but it does sound pretty good, I wouldn't mind trying to play a game like that.

 

[Flytothesky]

I have always tought the same. Would be lovely to play more realistic... I would love to play online to a RPG that you could have a family, killing some monsters to feed your family, go to shops to buy food, to have a house... I would love to play a game located in the middle age for example, and go to different towns riding a horse cart or with a horse... I love the realistic games online.
I remember Metin2 (MORPG) that you had to acquire some books to understand some people and monsters of a location.
Your idea's so great...

 

[Pink Gregory]

Those are definitely some interesting mechanics that I would like to see, not so much the language one, but then again y'could make something of always having to find a translator or interpreter.

Of course these are only mechanics at the moment, it would need consistent good ideas to work in context.

Then again, fantasy has a surfeit of ideas, good and not so good, so it's entirely possible.

 

[DracoSuave]

A lot of things that sound challenging and exciting on paper turn into inconveniences and barriers to play in practice. Knowing where to draw the line between gameplay and realism is the hallmark of good design.

Do understand: Everything the OP mentions HAS been done somewhere. The question then is to find out where, and see how it worked out--did it immerse the player in a world of challenge, or did it alienate the world by creating barriers between the player and the actual gameplay they come for?

 

[DoPo]

Someone caught a Ronnie Soak reference

Ah, my favourite milkman! I haven't seen that post but you deserve a reward for referencing him.

Spoiler: Have a cookie

OT: That's an interesting idea you have there, OP. I've seen bits and pieces of this in video games, but not the whole thing together. I'm really curious now, how a game like this would play. And I don't think it would be massively hard to even make one, I reckon it would look vaguely like a TES game but with even more of a focus on exploration. Combat can either be ditched or left off far in the back seat. Furthermore, unless you want really fancy graphics, I'm quite sure you can have a random world (hell, Daggerfall pulled it off). So what I picture is a roguelike with dynamic random world, as well as exploration and travel as focus. Different languages are not hard to simulate (apply some cipher to them, keep a bank of ciphers so you can expand or shrink as needed), even different cultures are possible (have the AI be backed up by an inference engine, vary the behavioural/"belief" facts in the knowledge base).

It could work.